New 445nm Build Tutorial - Need Kit Maker

styropyro · Jul 20, 2010

With the Arctic out and 1W lasers readily available, I figure I'm gonna make a YouTube build tutorial using one of the kits sold here on LPF. I'm looking for a build kit that will have a significant price difference between the DIY build and the Arctic so that there is benefit in building instead of buying. So kit builders, I'm looking for the right kit.

Some other things:
I need the kit seller to readily keep their item in stock, as well as plan on selling these kits for a while. Nothing is more annoying than a YouTube tutorial that has a irreplaceable part that is no longer available. An order page would be nice but not needed.

A built in driver is nice, but if it's gonna cost a lot more I can just as easily link to a flexdrive. I'll also just link to the Aixiz 445nm glass lens, let's hope they will ship fast now.

Again, Price. I have to have it low enough that people will choose to build their laser instead of just buying an Arctic for $200. Factor in the price of goggles and diode in total price.

I would prefer a host with at least decent heatsinking so duty cycles aren't that short, the host doesn't need to be a beast though.

An easier build would be nice, I want my video to be easy to follow.

Do you know of any stores that will constantly stock A140 diodes?

If you think you have the right kit for my video, post here or PM me. I need this video to be really good.

Asherz · Jul 20, 2010

styropyro said:
I need this video to be really good.

Running low on money? I personally don't think being able to get hold of a DIY 1W laser any cheaper than the artic, will benefit anyone apart from 12 years olds who want a new burning "lazor". Getting hold of the information on LPF is harder than just watching a youtube video.

Stop trying to make cash at the expense of the hobby, it's quite clear your only making the video for views.

bhank · Jul 20, 2010

No offense styropyro, but it sounds like a bad idea to me. This info is already fairly easy to come by, and less-than-intelligent people can already easily enough find it. With YouTube seeing so much traffic, it would just make it to easy for them to just watch the video, take some cash from mommy's purse, order parts and blind themselves.

I don't know if half of that made sense, I'm really tired, but I think it would be a bad idea to make potentially dangerous information so readily available to anyone in the world, most of whom, let's be honest, are not quite all there and would only want a new burning "lazor" as Asherz said and wouldn't do any research at all in regards to the proper and safe way to use and enjoy it.

Bad idea bud, sorry

styropyro · Jul 20, 2010

Well...my theory is that if someone is going to go through the trouble of building one, they will be safer than someone who just clicks the "buy" button on WL's site and goes from there. That way they are kinda forced to do some reading, and then from there they will see how to handle it safely. I wouldn't be thinking of a video like this if WL didn't make the Arctic, but now that you can buy it not knowing anything, I might as well do something where a little safety can be learned.

See what I mean? If this still sounds like a bad idea to you guys then I won't make it.

Meatball · Jul 20, 2010

I vote jayrob's MXDL. Meduim size, cheap, very popular!

plexus · Jul 20, 2010

I recently spent a lot of time pricing kits from some of the host providers on this site. There are basically 3 routes: 1) buy everything yourself and machine/make the parts yourself, 2) buy a "kit" from someone on the site who prepares the hosts and machines the heatsinks, etc, 3) buy a pre-built laser.

1 is cheapest but then you have to order everything from different sources (host, module, lenses, driver, diode, etc). WIth 2, you pay more but everything can come from one source and the heatsink etc will already be machined and ready to go. These one-stop-shops (flaminpyro, jayrob, et al) charge a bit of a premium over the buy-it-yourself but its not much more (on the order of maybe ~$10 more).

what is interesting is option 3. based on some of the 445 lasers that have sold in the BST section, you can actually buy one all done for around what it would cost to do it yourself. mine you it will be "used" and you will have no control over what parts were used etc. with a BIY you can pick and choose what you want (lens, driver, host, focus, etc).

i recently purchased an SH302 kit from both FP and JR because i want to do a comparison how-to and review of each. when all was said and done, the final cost averaged out to about $220US each (includes focus ring and expensive glass lens). thats for all the parts but a BIY (build it yourself). That is cheaper than the Arctic and now especially that the price will go up to $300US ($330 with shipping).

So its nice to have choices. but it can be confusing. for example the driver choices are a bit confusing. i am hoping that my plan for a comparative build/review post will help clear up some of the confusion. but that wont come for a month or so because FP and JR have a ~2 week waiting list and then there is shipping time and then i have to build and document.

I think if you bought all the parts yourself, you could do it for $200. you'd still need the machined parts from a person that can do that kind of work unless you can do that yourself. if you could do the whole thing yourself, its possible to put one together for...

SS302 host: $35
aixis module: $5
445 diode: $50
driver: $25
lens: $15 (like an aixis 405 glass)
heat sink raw materials: $10 (im guessing because this would be a challenge to find just a small piece of stock)
combined shipping: $20

$160ish

that to me would be the cheapest it could be done for, give or take. with the build kits i ordered i also opted for a focus ring ~$20 and jayrob's glass lens $55. so those add $75, pushing it into the same cost as buying everything from FP, JR, etc. so i don't see the benefit of a complete DIY/BIY. better to get all the parts from one source.

oic0 · Jul 20, 2010

Would it be safe for the seller to get that much attention?

plexus · Jul 20, 2010

bhank said:
No offense styropyro, but it sounds like a bad idea to me. This info is already fairly easy to come by, and less-than-intelligent people can already easily enough find it. With YouTube seeing so much traffic, it would just make it to easy for them to just watch the video, take some cash from mommy's purse, order parts and blind themselves.

i have to get something off my chest. maybe this is the right thread for it...

all this hullabaloo about the Arctic and 1W visible lasers... back in the mid 80s i started out as a laser hobbyist putting together a 10mW HeNe. basically the same kind of thing as today where you get all the parts and stick them together and you have a laser (but unlike actually making a laser from scratch, which i personally in awe over). back then, when i made my 10mW laser, the people around me were very scared of it. just the idea that it was a laser and remember the only place most people saw a laser was in sci fi.

the whole laser hobbyist thing back then was HeNe's and gas lasers. I have a friend that got a dead 5W argon for free and restored it and got it working.

Then after many years solid state lasers came to be with the little near-infrared laser diodes and pointers. and it evolved and evolved. so here we are, now we have a 1W 445nm laser diode. so what?

do you think it will end there? no. there are already experimental >5W visible laser diodes. so this whole idea of a laser that can hurt someone actually goes back many decades. you could buy a >5mW HeNe laser tube, surplus, and build a PSU for it back in the late '70s. and that is a laser that could cause eye damage.

Granted the difference between then and now is higher power, cheaper prices, more availability. oh wait, that isn't any different than before. see my point. just let it go. lasers are going to get smaller, more powerful and cheaper and more readily available.

right now its pretty easy to put together the "leading edge" in affordable laser technology for <$200. i don't see any reason not to make a youtube video showing how and in fact i wouldn't be surprised if there isn't already a bunch of them. its not secret, nor is it difficult.

laser_freak · Jul 20, 2010

Styropyro, it's a good idea, but there's a problem.. The main problem is finding a constant supply of 445nm diodes. You could easily direct the viewers over the the GB and BST sections here at LPF, but after that there's not much else to 'teach' the viewers. Maybe I'm thinking the average YouTuber is smarter than they actually are. As everyone here knows, all that's required is buying a host with a heatsink (anyone of jayrob's would be fine), buying a driver (drlava's drivers are easy) and buying a diode. Jayrob provides plenty of info how to put his host together in each of his FS threads. drlava has some excellent PDF manuals which show how to use the flexdrive and microboostdrive.

I know that ou are trying to get people to make there own laser instead of buying from WL. If someone is already smart enough to make their own laser, they won't need the video. If someone has never made a laser before, starting out making a 1W 445nm lasre isn't a very good idea.

Just my $0.02

Anyways, if you do make the video I hope it works and prevents more people from buying an Arctic

Edit, you could also forget about the driver and just make it direct-drive. Just make sure you state over and over that they have to use the correct battery type.

plexus · Jul 20, 2010

laser_freak said:
Styropyro, it's a good idea, but there's a problem.. The main problem is finding a constant supply of 445nm diodes. You could easily direct the viewers over the the GB and BST sections here at LPF, but after that there's not much else to 'teach' the viewers. Maybe I'm thinking the average YouTuber is smarter than they actually are. As everyone here knows, all that's required is buying a host with a heatsink (anyone of jayrob's would be fine), buying a driver (drlava's drivers are easy) and buying a diode. Jayrob provides plenty of info how to put his host together in each of his FS threads. drlava has some excellent PDF manuals which show how to use the flexdrive and microboostdrive.

I know that ou are trying to get people to make there own laser instead of buying from WL. If someone is already smart enough to make their own laser, they won't need the video. If someone has never made a laser before, starting out making a 1W 445nm lasre isn't a very good idea.

Just my $0.02

Anyways, if you do make the video I hope it works and prevents more people from buying an Arctic

Edit, you could also forget about the driver and just make it direct-drive. Just make sure you state over and over that they have to use the correct battery type.

the other way to look at it is outside of 445. go 405. you can get what, 500-700mW out of a 12x 405 diode. the problem here is the <$140 price for the diode or the blu-ray drive to harvest it. but it doesn't seem that difficult to get a powerful diode. I just googled "445nm laser diode" and the first few hits would get a person connected to a source.

also the fact that you can sell these diodes for <$45 makes buying a projector and harvesting the diodes profitable. so as long as people can buy these projectors i dont think it will be a challenge to get the diodes.

i think the bottom line is that anyone who gets the bug in their head to build one or is simply interested in getting a 445nm laser, would end up fairly quickly in this forum and then end up with all the info and parts they need.

making a youtube video would be very helpful however to show how all the parts go together. maybe when i get my FP and JR kits i will video the process as well and post it on youtube.

Zike · Jul 20, 2010

If you ever do that video, please include the googles as a mandatory item.

Building a laser from all these parts for the first time must include a safety protection for eyes at least and skin at best.

Fonduman · Jul 20, 2010

the information, as mentioned, is not difficult to come by. this is a good chance, however, for us to control the way in which people are exposed to the information. put safety info etc in the video. also it sounds interchangeable. you could just as easily make a more beginner video with a safer diode like a red.

cexshun · Jul 20, 2010

plexus said:
I recently spent a lot of time pricing kits from some of the host providers on this site. There are basically 3 routes: 1) buy everything yourself and machine/make the parts yourself, 2) buy a "kit" from someone on the site who prepares the hosts and machines the heatsinks, etc, 3) buy a pre-built laser.

1 is cheapest but then you have to order everything from different sources (host, module, lenses, driver, diode, etc). WIth 2, you pay more but everything can come from one source and the heatsink etc will already be machined and ready to go. These one-stop-shops (flaminpyro, jayrob, et al) charge a bit of a premium over the buy-it-yourself but its not much more (on the order of maybe ~$10 more).

what is interesting is option 3. based on some of the 445 lasers that have sold in the BST section, you can actually buy one all done for around what it would cost to do it yourself. mine you it will be "used" and you will have no control over what parts were used etc. with a BIY you can pick and choose what you want (lens, driver, host, focus, etc).

i recently purchased an SH302 kit from both FP and JR because i want to do a comparison how-to and review of each. when all was said and done, the final cost averaged out to about $220US each (includes focus ring and expensive glass lens). thats for all the parts but a BIY (build it yourself). That is cheaper than the Arctic and now especially that the price will go up to $300US ($330 with shipping).

So its nice to have choices. but it can be confusing. for example the driver choices are a bit confusing. i am hoping that my plan for a comparative build/review post will help clear up some of the confusion. but that wont come for a month or so because FP and JR have a ~2 week waiting list and then there is shipping time and then i have to build and document.

I think if you bought all the parts yourself, you could do it for $200. you'd still need the machined parts from a person that can do that kind of work unless you can do that yourself. if you could do the whole thing yourself, its possible to put one together for...

SS302 host: $35
aixis module: $5
445 diode: $50
driver: $25
lens: $15 (like an aixis 405 glass)
heat sink raw materials: $10 (im guessing because this would be a challenge to find just a small piece of stock)
combined shipping: $20

$160ish

that to me would be the cheapest it could be done for, give or take. with the build kits i ordered i also opted for a focus ring ~$20 and jayrob's glass lens $55. so those add $75, pushing it into the same cost as buying everything from FP, JR, etc. so i don't see the benefit of a complete DIY/BIY. better to get all the parts from one source.

Not a 100% fair comparison. The Arctic does include battery, charger and goggles. The goggles alone make the Arctic a bargain.

laser_freak · Jul 20, 2010

cexshun said:
Not a 100% fair comparison. The Arctic does include battery, charger and goggles. The goggles alone make the Arctic a bargain.

The free goggles WickedLasers includes with their lasers are crap.

Asherz · Jul 20, 2010

plexus said:
Granted the difference between then and now is higher power, cheaper prices, more availability. oh wait, that isn't any different than before. see my point.

I'm sorry but that's very contradictory, the price is cheaper, there is more availability and the power is ALOT higher, it's completely different than before.

Yes A 10mW He-ne could cause some eye damage, maybe a slight dark spot if your unlucky but a 1W 445nm laser will literally burst your pupil, cause excruciating pain and completely blind you, even reflections from a window at around 4% is more than 4 times the amount your He-ne outputted in power.

Not to mention the added ability of easy ordering online now a days and instant accsess to information. There is no comparison between a He-ne and a 1W 445nm, apart from they're both lasers.

styropyro · Jul 20, 2010

Alright I'm gonna tackle these quotes in a mega post.

To save space I'll cut them down if needed.

Meatball said:
I vote jayrob's MXDL. Meduim size, cheap, very popular!

Definitely a great kit, would be great for a 445nm build. I'm just posting this thread here to ask for a builder who is willing to keep up with the demand, and I don't know if JayRob would want this or not.

plexus said:
I recently spent a lot of time pricing kits from some of the host providers on this site. There are basically 3 routes: 1) buy everything yourself and machine/make the parts yourself, 2) buy a "kit" from someone on the site who prepares the hosts and machines the heatsinks, etc, 3) buy a pre-built laser.

I can't quote this whole post, but I am leaning for a kit so the video is easier to follow. I didn't know the Arctic price was going up, but that leaves more room for price on the kit. I'm just trying to persuade people to try their hand at building their own laser and learn some safety instead of just buying one.

oic0 said:
Would it be safe for the seller to get that much attention?

It really depends on how they advertise their item IIRC. I'm posting here to find the builder that is OK with the publicity.

plexus said:
do you think it will end there? no. there are already experimental >5W visible laser diodes. so this whole idea of a laser that can hurt someone actually goes back many decades. you could buy a >5mW HeNe laser tube, surplus, and build a PSU for it back in the late '70s. and that is a laser that could cause eye damage.

Granted the difference between then and now is higher power, cheaper prices, more availability. oh wait, that isn't any different than before. see my point. just let it go. lasers are going to get smaller, more powerful and cheaper and more readily available.

right now its pretty easy to put together the "leading edge" in affordable laser technology for <$200. i don't see any reason not to make a youtube video showing how and in fact i wouldn't be surprised if there isn't already a bunch of them. its not secret, nor is it difficult.

This is what I'm thinking. Granted, I wasn't around in the 70's to watch laser technology progress, but it still does follow the same idea. I could build a 40W IR laser for not much more than the Arctic and THAT would be dangerous, but there hasn't really been a problem with the cheap IR lasers either.

laser_freak said:
Styropyro, it's a good idea, but there's a problem.. The main problem is finding a constant supply of 445nm diodes. You could easily direct the viewers over the the GB and BST sections here at LPF, but after that there's not much else to 'teach' the viewers. Maybe I'm thinking the average YouTuber is smarter than they actually are. As everyone here knows, all that's required is buying a host with a heatsink (anyone of jayrob's would be fine), buying a driver (drlava's drivers are easy) and buying a diode. Jayrob provides plenty of info how to put his host together in each of his FS threads. drlava has some excellent PDF manuals which show how to use the flexdrive and microboostdrive.

I know that ou are trying to get people to make there own laser instead of buying from WL. If someone is already smart enough to make their own laser, they won't need the video. If someone has never made a laser before, starting out making a 1W 445nm lasre isn't a very good idea.

Just my $0.02

Anyways, if you do make the video I hope it works and prevents more people from buying an Arctic

Edit, you could also forget about the driver and just make it direct-drive. Just make sure you state over and over that they have to use the correct battery type.

I was hoping a store like HTD or Modwerx would carry these diodes constantly because they could profit from it.

plexus said:
i think the bottom line is that anyone who gets the bug in their head to build one or is simply interested in getting a 445nm laser, would end up fairly quickly in this forum and then end up with all the info and parts they need.

making a youtube video would be very helpful however to show how all the parts go together. maybe when i get my FP and JR kits i will video the process as well and post it on youtube.

Definitely, and when they are here they can learn a little safety.

Zike said:
If you ever do that video, please include the googles as a mandatory item.

Building a laser from all these parts for the first time must include a safety protection for eyes at least and skin at best.

A safety section of this video will be included, with links to good goggles and I'll write a separate safety article and link to that.

Fonduman said:
the information, as mentioned, is not difficult to come by. this is a good chance, however, for us to control the way in which people are exposed to the information. put safety info etc in the video. also it sounds interchangeable. you could just as easily make a more beginner video with a safer diode like a red.

I do have videos for both violet and red lasers:
YouTube - DIY: How to Make a High Powered Burning Blue/Violet Laser Pointer
YouTube - DIY: How to Build a Burning Red Laser

And yes, safety will be burned into the viewers head when this video is watched.

I know a laser like this is very dangerous, but the goal of this tutorial is safety. The whole point of this video is to prevent buying a prebuilt 445 and build their own, and learn safety along the way. Viewers are gonna have questions, they aren't gonna get all they need from the video. Otherwise they will just order an Arctic and not know much safety at all, so this is a chance to teach safety.

Edit: I also feel the need to address this one:

Asherz said:
Stop trying to make cash at the expense of the hobby, it's quite clear your only making the video for views.

I've been making laser videos for 3 years, long before I started making money from YouTube. My most popular tutorials were made before I had made a cent, I made those just for the fun of teaching others, so are my 50+ lasers videos on YouTube causing an "expense" of the hobby? It is awesome getting paid for my hobby, but I still do enjoy helping others. I get so many emails every day on YouTube from n00bs needing help, and I answer nearly everyone. Whether I answer emails doesn't benefit me or pay me, I do it to because I like showing others this cool hobby.

New 445nm Build Tutorial - Need Kit Maker

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