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Old 06-05-2010, 11:15 PM #161
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Default Re: Mario's class IV 445nm Kryton + projector pics

I believe those are the same ones he is using. There's a smaller spring inside that ends up carrying the 1.5A of current, and it just can't handle it.


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Old 06-05-2010, 11:19 PM #162
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Default Re: Mario's class IV 445nm Kryton + projector pics

If you look at the two, they're different, not by much, but they are:

His:
DealExtreme: $1.94 Clicky Switch for Flashlights (16mm 5-Pack)

Mine:
DealExtreme: $4.30 16mm 101F Gold Plated Clicky Switch for Flashlights (10-Pack)

EDIT: I did some more searching, and found the very same gold plated clickies I found on DX for $4.30 for a 10-pack. On ***************** for $0.75 .... wow what a rip-off.

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Old 06-05-2010, 11:23 PM #163
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Default Re: Mario's class IV 445nm Kryton + projector pics

In response to a question about the specs of the ones you linked:

Quote:
I suspect these are identical internally to sku 5632 in relation to specs/load and current acceptance. Price is worth the small increase (.23 vs. .20) as the springs on this are gold plated and less prone to oxidation that can affect performance.
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Old 06-05-2010, 11:50 PM #164
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Default Re: Mario's class IV 445nm Kryton + projector pics

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayrob View Post
Just to clarify, I hope it didn't sound like I was trying to 'school you'...

It was something that I did not think about yet, and mainly wanted to explain it for others to understand. But we had mentioned your up coming Kryton build is all.

I figured for sure you've been using the Micro BoostDrive, but I remember that with Kryton builds, the driver gets soldered directly to the diode, and the way I used to build them, I'd get the negative to the FlexDrive by soldering the case pin to the negative pin.

So then I realized hey... that won't work with a Micro Boost... And in thinking about it, I realized that you could still do it if you soldered a small wire from the diode case pin, to the negative input side of the driver.

Anyway, that's just me thinking out loud because with 99% of all of my builds, I get the negative from the pill/host. So I never thought about what to do in a Kryton type build using the Micro BoostDrive (where the driver is directly soldered to the diode pins) until just then...
No problem, Jay. I was not offended. It was not my intention to sound condescending. I am just a bit of an arrogant bastard. I am sometimes more abrupt than I should be.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemlock_Mike View Post
Second try -----

That "DDL" driver shown above is a constant voltage regulator. There is no feedback from a low ohm resistor in the current feed to the adj input. Also, DDL did not design the "DDL" driver. The circuit was published Loooong ago by National Semicinductors.

HMike
Thank, Mike. The graphic only served to give MFO a "visual" of the concept.

Peace,
dave
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Old 06-05-2010, 11:55 PM #165
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Default Re: Mario's class IV 445nm Kryton + projector pics

Rated 1.5A, but back-ordered:
ShopOnSpot | Clicky Switch for Flashlights (17.8mm 5-Pack)

Same swicthes, but not on back-order:
Clicky Switch for Flashlights (17.8mm 5-Pack) [E0980] : BestOfferBuy.com, Buy DVD, Shop for PC accessories, Discount MP3 Players, Bargain Deal for Surveillance Equipment, Cheap R4 for NDS, X-sim Unlock
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Old 06-06-2010, 12:59 AM #166
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Default Re: Mario's class IV 445nm Kryton + projector pics

Those should do it, 1.5A. The problem would be their size, 1.8mm bigger.

By the way, I have those from DX, DealExtreme: $4.30 16mm 101F Gold Plated Clicky Switch for Flashlights (10-Pack) but I've melted a couple them.
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Old 06-06-2010, 08:25 AM #167
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Default Re: Mario's class IV 445nm Kryton + projector pics

I'm really surprised that the switch that large cannot handle 1500mA's...

I have cheap DX P7 flashlights that take 2.8 Watts and they seem to have a normal clicky...

Is it possible that your battery is shorting to the host? Because that would fry your switch...
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Last edited by jayrob; 06-06-2010 at 07:41 PM.
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Old 06-06-2010, 10:37 PM #168
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Default Re: 445nm "sled" pics

Because the beam quality isn't bad enough as it is?
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Old 06-06-2010, 11:26 PM #169
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Default Re: Mario's class IV 445nm Kryton + projector pics

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemlock_Mike View Post
DDL did not design the "DDL" driver. The circuit was published Loooong ago by National Semicinductors.
That's right. You'll even find the "ddl driver" on the back of the LM317 package at radio Shack.
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Old 06-06-2010, 11:29 PM #170
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Default Re: Mario's class IV 445nm Kryton + projector pics

Quote:
Originally Posted by mfo View Post
Dang, this is going to make things a pain in the rear

I definitely can't get away with using a flexdrive using an 18650, right? Too much current for the flex to handle...

Edit:

I was looking at the flexdrive manual and looking at the formula.

(Vout (Volts) * Iout (Amps) ) / Vin (Volts) < 1.2

The only part I don't understand is the end of the formula, < 1.2

I plugged the settings I'd use for this diode into the formula, and came up with this.

(4.2) * (.750) / (4.2) =.75

So, does this mean it would work with a 4.2V Li-Ion since my answe is .74, which is less than 1.2?

@Dave, now it makes perfect sense, I totally forgot about the shortcuts lol. Also, thanks Mario & Jay.

Double Edit:

If this is the case, then we can definitely power this thing with a decent capacity Li-Ion such as the 18650. Once it drops down to about 3 volts, that's when problems will arise I guess? What would happen? Would it just cut power to the diode? Would it kill the diode? Would the driver just generate an insane amount of heat?
Someone confirm or deny this for me please or it'll be rage time :3
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Old 06-06-2010, 11:35 PM #171
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Default Re: Mario's class IV 445nm Kryton + projector pics

A good quality 18650 battery such as an AW, will put out over 2500mA's if needed...

So if you want to use 700mA's to 1 Amp to the diode, you can do this with a single (good quality) 18650, and a Micro BoostDrive...

Is that what you were asking about?

Or did you need specific information about the V5 FlexDrive? Because the V5 FlexDrive is limited in high current builds using diodes that ask for higher voltages like blu-ray's and these new 445 diodes.

Here's an excerpt from the documentation:

Maximum current limitations for full input voltage range:
The Micro FlexDrive is built using the latest technology and is designed to have a very wide range of output
currents and voltages. However not every combination of input voltage, output voltage and output current is
useable. For example a 5V load cannot be powered at 1 Amp with an input voltage ov 2.0V. Here are the
recommended output current ranges for the full 2.0-5.5V input range per output voltage:
75-400mA buck/boost 5V out
75-800mA buck/boost 3V out
75mA-1.5A 2.0V out with 4.2-3.0V in (li-ion)
A good rule of thumb is that: (Vout (Volts) * Iout (Amps) ) / Vin (Volts) < 1.2
For powering high current (>500mA) 1.8V diodes, a series shottky rectifier is required so that the output voltage is
2.2V or greater. When powering loads above 500 mA and below 3V, a heatsink on the black 5-pin chip on the back
of the driver is required. An electrically insulating thermal epoxy to the heatsink or casing is recommended.
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Looking for a DIY kit?


Take a look at some of my more popular kits linked in color...

* FS: 405-G-1 Glass Lens Mod for Blu-ray! 31% increase in power vs AixiZ acrylic!

* FS: New! 1000 Lumen XML-2 Maglite Modification With Voltage Monitor! - Parts or Complete Light! Must see!

* FS: Polished Stainless Steel Green Kit! Easy assembly in minutes!

* FS: Large Maglite Monster Kits! Side Button Forward Clicky! Custom Head Option! Gnarly...


Click here for a list of my build kits! Projects and tutorials too!


Last edited by jayrob; 06-06-2010 at 11:39 PM.
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Old 06-07-2010, 12:06 AM #172
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Default Re: Mario's class IV 445nm Kryton + projector pics

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayrob View Post
A good quality 18650 battery such as an AW, will put out over 2500mA's if needed...

So if you want to use 700mA's to 1 Amp to the diode, you can do this with a single (good quality) 18650, and a Micro BoostDrive...

Is that what you were asking about?

Or did you need specific information about the V5 FlexDrive? Because the V5 FlexDrive is limited in high current builds using diodes that ask for higher voltages like blu-ray's and these new 445 diodes.

Here's an excerpt from the documentation:

Maximum current limitations for full input voltage range:
The Micro FlexDrive is built using the latest technology and is designed to have a very wide range of output
currents and voltages. However not every combination of input voltage, output voltage and output current is
useable. For example a 5V load cannot be powered at 1 Amp with an input voltage ov 2.0V. Here are the
recommended output current ranges for the full 2.0-5.5V input range per output voltage:
75-400mA buck/boost 5V out
75-800mA buck/boost 3V out
75mA-1.5A 2.0V out with 4.2-3.0V in (li-ion)
A good rule of thumb is that: (Vout (Volts) * Iout (Amps) ) / Vin (Volts) < 1.2
For powering high current (>500mA) 1.8V diodes, a series shottky rectifier is required so that the output voltage is
2.2V or greater. When powering loads above 500 mA and below 3V, a heatsink on the black 5-pin chip on the back
of the driver is required. An electrically insulating thermal epoxy to the heatsink or casing is recommended.
I read somewhere that the Vf of these new diodes is 4.2V. So, assuming this, I plugged the following numbers into the forumula, and my result is less than 1.2

(4.2) * (.750) / (4.2) =.75

So, if the Vf of the diode is 4.2, and I supply 750mA to it, and the battery is pumping out 4.2V, then it should be able to drive the diode, right?

Even if the battery sags down to 3V as it discharges....

(4.2) * (.750) / (3.0) =1.05

So, even if the battery sags down to 3V, according to the formula it should still be able to drive the diode, correct?

Reason I ask is because I never used the new microboost, and I'd rather stick to the flex if possible since I'm familiar with it (somewhat) and don't want to risk blowing a $50 diode.
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Old 06-07-2010, 12:23 AM #173
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Default Re: Mario's class IV 445nm Kryton + projector pics

Most of my kits and 'Hot' options use a single battery and are designed around the FlexDrives and now the new Micro BoostDrive...

I like to use a V5 FlexDrive if the current will be less than 400mA's, but a Micro BoostDrive if 400mA's or higher.

But for your specific question, I'm afraid you will have to connect the diode and test and see if it will work at the current you are trying to push the FlexDrive at...

Have you messaged drlava about it?
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(just a few - too many to list) RPL 425, Sypder III Krypton, RPL 35 (473), GLP-473, GLP-593.5, HeNe 632.8,
Many DIY 445, red, blu-ray, green, 635, and 450 builds...


Looking for a DIY kit?


Take a look at some of my more popular kits linked in color...

* FS: 405-G-1 Glass Lens Mod for Blu-ray! 31% increase in power vs AixiZ acrylic!

* FS: New! 1000 Lumen XML-2 Maglite Modification With Voltage Monitor! - Parts or Complete Light! Must see!

* FS: Polished Stainless Steel Green Kit! Easy assembly in minutes!

* FS: Large Maglite Monster Kits! Side Button Forward Clicky! Custom Head Option! Gnarly...


Click here for a list of my build kits! Projects and tutorials too!

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Old 06-07-2010, 12:30 AM #174
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Default Re: Mario's class IV 445nm Kryton + projector pics

Quote:
Originally Posted by mfo View Post
I read somewhere that the Vf of these new diodes is 4.2V. So, assuming this, I plugged the following numbers into the forumula, and my result is less than 1.2

(4.2) * (.750) / (4.2) =.75

So, if the Vf of the diode is 4.2, and I supply 750mA to it, and the battery is pumping out 4.2V, then it should be able to drive the diode, right?

Even if the battery sags down to 3V as it discharges....

(4.2) * (.750) / (3.0) =1.05

So, even if the battery sags down to 3V, according to the formula it should still be able to drive the diode, correct?

Reason I ask is because I never used the new microboost, and I'd rather stick to the flex if possible since I'm familiar with it (somewhat) and don't want to risk blowing a $50 diode.
The Micro Boost driver was designed to handle diodes with high forward voltage and high current requirements. Some people were having trouble powering the 12X diodes past ~420mA with the Flex. The Vf of the 12X diodes should be similar to the 445nm diodes (based on what I have read).
The Flex drive will struggle to keep the current at 750mA. That is why Dr. Lava designed the Micro Boost.

I read that the Vf was closer to around 5V, but I guess we will have to wait until someone chimes in with some real numbers.

@ Jayrob
You connect the case pin to the (-) input of the driver (on the Micro Boost)? I was under the impression that the 445nm diodes are case neutral. So are you still connecting the diode cathode to the (-) output pad on the driver?

I am not familiar with how the Micro Boost works, so could you please explain why you would do this?

I am trying to visualize what is going on here, but am having some trouble.
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Old 06-07-2010, 12:42 AM #175
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Default Re: Mario's class IV 445nm Kryton + projector pics

Oh and for anyone wondering, I found out that the clicky switches in my kryton were in fact due to a short - the springs were too long and would kink to the side when I pressed hard on the switch causing the spring in the switch to melt itself. I've shortened the springs and the laser works perfectly now (with the last clicky switch I had)
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Old 06-07-2010, 01:10 AM #176
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Default Re: Mario's class IV 445nm Kryton + projector pics

That's what I figured... That the battery was shorting. Because cheap China P7 flashlights put 2800mA's through a cheap tail clicky...

Glad you found the problem!




Quote:
Originally Posted by RA_pierce View Post
The Micro Boost driver was designed to handle diodes with high forward voltage and high current requirements. Some people were having trouble powering the 12X diodes past ~420mA with the Flex. The Vf of the 12X diodes should be similar to the 445nm diodes (based on what I have read).
The Flex drive will struggle to keep the current at 750mA. That is why Dr. Lava designed the Micro Boost.

I read that the Vf was closer to around 5V, but I guess we will have to wait until someone chimes in with some real numbers.

@ Jayrob
You connect the case pin to the (-) input of the driver (on the Micro Boost)? I was under the impression that the 445nm diodes are case neutral. So are you still connecting the diode cathode to the (-) output pad on the driver?

I am not familiar with how the Micro Boost works, so could you please explain why you would do this?

I am trying to visualize what is going on here, but am having some trouble.
No no... not to negative output!...

I like to always get the negative connection to the driver input from the pill when ever possible...

But in certain builds (like Kryton's and pens), it's easier to get the negative from the diode case pin.

However, with a Micro BoostDrive, you cannot just solder the diode case pin to the negative pin like you can with a FlexDrive and connect both to the driver negative output...

You can do that with a FlexDrive because both negatives on the driver (input and output), are basically one and the same. They are continuous...

But a Micro BoostDrive is not that way...



The answer, in such a build like a Kryton, is that you can connect a wire to the diode case pin (with case neutral diodes), and then connect the wire to the input side of the Micro BoostDrive. But obviously you must still also connect the negative output from the driver to the negative diode pin. (and positive output to diode positive) This will work...
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Last edited by jayrob; 06-07-2010 at 01:26 AM.
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