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Old 06-20-2010, 06:34 PM #113
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Default Re: Distant early warning... 445nm to be banned soon?

I think I read on PL that it's exact the same diode...


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Old 06-20-2010, 06:58 PM #114
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Default Re: Distant early warning... 445nm to be banned soon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xplorer877 View Post
Back in like 05 I bought a 60mW green laser from LaserGlow. It cost me over 520 bucks (thats what they cost back then). After I finally received it I got a letter from the FDA saying that the unit had slipped through customs and that I was to redeliver it to customs. It was a freakin nightmare dealing with all that crap. After many letters back and forth I was able to return it to Laser Glow and get a refund so long as I proved to the FDA that I did indeed return it.

If Wicked and NOVA draw anymore attention to themselves then customs is going to start cracking down again and some of you may have to deal with the FDA like I did. Since then I've never imported another laser. My CNI PGL-III-A I bought from Lucent Optics based in the US. My other 532nm Lasers I bought from members on this forum. And then rest are DIY builds.

-Tony
Just looking at those is a little scary. I had a few questions though that may lighten hearts a tad bit..

For one, do you live in Canada? I might assume that a sh*tton more electronics packages come to the US than Canada daily, making it harder to check each individual package.

Also, it stated something along the lines that LaserGlow has never filed/submitted a report showing their devices to be FDA compliant, while WL advertises that their devices are FDA compliant (the device, not the diode :P).

It also looks like LaserGlow didn't put any sort of sticker on it? That problem could have been avoided the same way Rayfoss dealt with my laser which is slap a 5mW sticker on it and include the actual sticker in the battery pack.



I'm not saying this couldn't happen! I'm just wondering if LaserGlow purely isn't the best option and other companies will deal with it more professionally e.g. respond to the customs calls (no offense to LaserGlow)
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Old 06-20-2010, 07:05 PM #115
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Default Re: Distant early warning... 445nm to be banned soon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by swimminsurfer256 View Post
Also, it stated something along the lines that LaserGlow has never filed/submitted a report showing their devices to be FDA compliant, while WL advertises that their devices are FDA compliant (the device, not the diode :P).
WL saying something is so, doesn't make it true. If they advertised that their lasers were all out of compliance, how many do you think that they would sell?

All you have to do is LOOK at most of the WL lasers to realize that they are NOT in compliance

Plus WL itself is already on the "watch" list

Peace,
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Old 06-20-2010, 07:10 PM #116
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Default Re: Distant early warning... 445nm to be banned soon?

Quote:
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WL saying something is so, doesn't make it true. If they advertised that their lasers were all out of compliance, how many do you think that they would sell?

All you have to do is LOOK at most of the WL lasers to realize that they are NOT in compliance

Plus WL itself is already on the "watch" list

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Well that's true. And I realize they aren't in compliance but I believe what they are saying is that the host itself is FDA compliant. Just what they happen to stick in that host isn't. When I contacted them they made a point to say that changing the tail-cap to an FDA-compliant tail-cap made it compliant. i.e. if you had a 5mW diode in the host it would be completely FDA-compliant :P we can keep quiet about what the output is when shipping it...
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Old 06-20-2010, 07:16 PM #117
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Default Re: Distant early warning... 445nm to be banned soon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by swimminsurfer256 View Post
Well that's true. And I realize they aren't in compliance but I believe what they are saying is that the host itself is FDA compliant. Just what they happen to stick in that host isn't. When I contacted them they made a point to say that changing the tail-cap to an FDA-compliant tail-cap made it compliant. i.e. if you had a 5mW diode in the host it would be completely FDA-compliant :P we can keep quiet about what the output is when shipping it...
There are more issues than that. Don't rely on the seller to tell you the truth about them.

Check out what is required for a laser to comply with the FDA requirements. Then check out the Arctic.

Any of them that gets by customs is a bonus

Peace,
dave
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Old 06-20-2010, 07:21 PM #118
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Default Re: Distant early warning... 445nm to be banned soon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by daguin View Post
There are more issues than that. Don't rely on the seller to tell you the truth about them.

Check out what is required for a laser to comply with the FDA requirements. Then check out the Arctic.

Any of them that gets by customs is a bonus

Peace,
dave
Do you think any will get through customs?
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Old 06-20-2010, 07:24 PM #119
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Default Re: Distant early warning... 445nm to be banned soon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by swimminsurfer256 View Post
Do you think any will get through customs?
My crystal ball is all out of JuJu today

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Old 06-20-2010, 07:34 PM #120
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Default Re: Distant early warning... 445nm to be banned soon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by daguin View Post
My crystal ball is all out of JuJu today

Peace,
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Ohhhh great time to run out :P

Now we sit...

and wait...


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Old 06-20-2010, 07:52 PM #121
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Default Re: Distant early warning... 445nm to be banned soon?

When I talked to Mr. Klemmer (FDA guy) on the phone he said that since those companies are not based in the US they can say whatever they want on their site. He told me that I was not the only one unknowingly importing an illegal item from LaserGlow. Back then LaserGlow and Wicked weren't as established. Now they're selling hundreds of units a week and for some reason they slip through customs. If your item gets seized they may not send it back to the sender and if the seller denies a refund you'll have to take it up with the regional authorities. Gook luck trying to get the Chinese authorities to make Wicked issue you a refund.

If you buy them then chances are that you'll get them without issue because customs simply can't check everything. That's what I'm assuming. Or they get by by putting a false sticker on it saying that it's FDA compliant. They wont break out an LPM and test it's validity. But if it does get seized you can only hope you can get a refund or have them send you another. However, if the FDA seizes it a second time then you may be prosecuted.

Technically I think it's also illegal for a US based seller to sell them too. Just ask Heruursciences. He sells laser moduals and accessories on eBay, but no complete lasers. Also he will not answer any questions regarding how to build or make a laser through eBay. It's important because if a law suit arises he'll be able to defend himself. Jayrob stopped selling his builds on the forum, at least I think he still isn't selling lasers. All the guys who organize GB and sell CNI's products may be susceptible to legal action as well.

This hobby and forum, unfortunately, technically endorses and advertises for companies who sell illegal products to the US. People who don't understand lasers immediately shun them as dangerous and regard anyone who uses them as irresponsible. They're, more often than not, feared than admired.

Like I said before Wicked and NOVA are putting themselves under a spotlight buy selling the Arctic and Atlantis for so cheap. It's only a matter of time until some dumb ass F@#$ up and blinds someone. Then it'll be all over the news and "The Man" will get involved.

You might say that the new diodes are no more dangerous than the Blu Ray burners. That's ture. But before they were not radially available, nor were they cheap. Also the fact that Wicked makes the damn thing look like a toy or a light saber doesn't help.

BTY here is a pic of the laser that I bought form Laser Glow 5 years ago. I loved that thing. 60mW at the time was some killer $hit! I only had it for like a week. It's next to a 5mW Alpec pointer. That one cost me 100 bone. This was way before you could find them on eBay for cheap.



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Old 06-20-2010, 08:00 PM #122
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Default Re: Distant early warning... 445nm to be banned soon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by swimminsurfer256 View Post
Do you think any will get through customs?

"Wicked Lasers guarantees that your item will arrive safely at your doorsteps. If your laser product was confiscated by the customs in your country, we will refund your payment fully and give you $100 in Wicked Bucks for your troubles. However, if you are not interested in the refund, we will resend your laser product and give you $100 in Wicked Bucks for your troubles."

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I never received my product. Is it stuck at customs?


This ^^^ was one of the very reasons i even bought a WL in the 1st place. they know what they are getting into.
that wouldn't be on the FAQ page on their site if they didn't.


but who knows with them.. just don't get the replacement plan.
they dont care if their poor quality buttons break.

"Wicked Lasers will not be responsible for damage resulting from (i) any deviation from Wicked Lasers' operating instructions as stated on Red, Blue, Green Laser Pointer and Torch Flashlight - Wicked Lasers or on any packaging, labels, or other literature provided with a Product, (ii) installation of a Product in a manner which is inconsistent with Wicked Lasers' written instructions, (iii) alteration or modification of a Product, (iv) misuse, (v) neglect, (vi) abuse, (vii) accident, (viii) normal wear and tear, (ix) commercial use, (x) service by anyone other than Wicked Lasers, or (xi) other improper application, installation, or operation of the Product."



i had to learn that the hard way



i did not buy the arctic btw
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Old 06-20-2010, 10:54 PM #123
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Default Re: Distant early warning... 445nm to be banned soon?

[QUOTE=electron;721117]I think the real reason PL closed off their 445nm end quote]

Hey, hold off on the conspiracy theories for a moment and wait for the explanation.
A explanation from Admin will be forthcoming, as soon as some dust settles, and you might be shocked as to why the thread got suspended. It had nothing to do with "some" PL members wishing to do anything, Admin does as he does, and loathes censorship.

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Old 06-21-2010, 12:42 AM #124
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Default Re: Distant early warning... 445nm to be banned soon?

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Originally Posted by GoRdOn_B View Post

"Wicked Lasers will not be responsible for damage resulting from (i) any deviation from Wicked Lasers' operating instructions as stated on Red, Blue, Green Laser Pointer and Torch Flashlight - Wicked Lasers or on any packaging, labels, or other literature provided with a Product, (ii) installation of a Product in a manner which is inconsistent with Wicked Lasers' written instructions, (iii) alteration or modification of a Product, (iv) misuse, (v) neglect, (vi) abuse, (vii) accident, (viii) normal wear and tear, (ix) commercial use, (x) service by anyone other than Wicked Lasers, or (xi) other improper application, installation, or operation of the Product."
So then what does the warranty cover?

That's a pretty awful replacement plan if you ask me...

They may as well omit everything except the first six words: "Wicked Lasers will not be responsible."
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Old 06-21-2010, 06:39 PM #125
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Default Re: Distant early warning... 445nm to be banned soon?

I'd be canceling my order from WL if I were you. If they are truly on a watch list, they will be keeping their eye out for your package.

But there is no way they will be checking for diodes. Hell not even eBay has banned the diodes yet, and you know how they are. The government has so many other outlets to worry about, the issues of sales of diodes will never make it as far as this forum. For the people who think we will get sued, the worst case scenario would be a cease and desist order. Then Avery just has to pull the plug on the 445nm threads. But it will never stop the private trading of diodes. The only concern the government has is the sale of complete lasers. So once again we have 0 to worry about.
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Old 06-21-2010, 06:49 PM #126
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Default Re: Distant early warning... 445nm to be banned soon?

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I'd be canceling my order from WL if I were you. If they are truly on a watch list, they will be keeping their eye out for your package.

But there is no way they will be checking for diodes. Hell not even eBay has banned the diodes yet, and you know how they are. The government has so many other outlets to worry about, the issues of sales of diodes will never make it as far as this forum. For the people who think we will get sued, the worst case scenario would be a cease and desist order. Then Avery just has to pull the plug on the 445nm threads. But it will never stop the private trading of diodes. The only concern the government has is the sale of complete lasers. So once again we have 0 to worry about.
I totally agree! They only care about people selling completed lasers. If all you have to do is add batteries then it's illegal to import. None of the lasers, not even CNIs builds, are FDA approved. It's all BS.

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Old 06-21-2010, 07:15 PM #127
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Default Re: Distant early warning... 445nm to be banned soon?

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Originally Posted by Xplorer877 View Post
I totally agree! They only care about people selling completed lasers. If all you have to do is add batteries then it's illegal to import. None of the lasers, not even CNIs builds, are FDA approved. It's all BS.

-Tony
CNI is a manufacturer and they do not go through the trouble of getting an accession number for each and every laser they produce, especially since not ALL of CNI's products go to USA where the FDA regulations exist.
Since their business is based mostly on selling to distributors, it is the re-seller's (and the importer's) responsibility to ensure that each of the lasers are compliant with the laws of the land.
CNI produces lasers with the required safety features, so even if they are not "approved" individually, they are still "more legal" than WickedLasers' products.

The difference with CNI's products is that they can be FDA approved.
Although the "safety" pin is a step in the right direction (IMO), Wicked has a long way to go before I see their products as anything more than toys (even though I do like the design of their Evo Pro and Spyder II) and I have never heard anything about WL having accession numbers for any of the lasers they export to the USA. I think that what they mean by "FDA approved" is "Almost FDA approved." It's just misinformation.

LaserGlow has accession numbers for their lasers (I have been told by Justin) since they do a lot of business in the USA... Although they are located in Canada.
I'm not sure what the regulations are with companies based in the USA like Optotronics, but I would assume that they, too, must comply with FDA/CDRH regulations. The import restriction would not apply, obviously, since they are a domestic company... But then Opto would need some kind of permit to import from Viasho unless... I'm rambling.

BUT...
I don't think that we have anything to worry about from big brother (yet).
As long as the DIYers are still around, this hobby won't die. It will just be more difficult to import lasers from overseas into the States, which is already illegal anyway. It's mostly just frustrating to watch the hobby drown under the waves caused by WL's release of the Arctic (and the cheap availability of Class IV diodes).
I'm over it.

Last edited by RA_pierce; 06-21-2010 at 07:21 PM.
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Old 06-21-2010, 10:25 PM #128
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Default Re: Distant early warning... 445nm to be banned soon?

If LaserGlow's products are indeed FDA approved now then good for them, but that sure as hell wasn't the case back in 05 for me. That's probably why their lasers are very expensive. It costs alot of time and money to get their products approved.

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