Casio seems to be potting projectors

My other thought was with the things we have been hearing lately hiding those sections to registered members may keep away some unwanted attention. Just thinking it may be best for the forum and the members.:beer:

I don't really know where to stand on this one. It seems like a good idea, but simply requiring registration to view certain threads won't stop unwanted attention. After all, if an entity wanted to buy something for evidence, they still need to register an account to send a PM to the seller.

This debate raged non-stop for weeks back in June when the 445nm diodes first became easily obtained. Should be interesting to see it all happen again. There's simply nothing in life quite like a good case of deja vu.

op:op:

Mohrenberg said:

I don't really know where to stand on this one. It seems like a good idea, but simply requiring registration to view certain threads won't stop unwanted attention. After all, if an entity wanted to buy something for evidence, they still need to register an account to send a PM to the seller.

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It would not do anything for that but search sites like Google and other entities could not cache every page and archive them(making editing irrelevant). Not to mention everything in those sections can be found with a quick search.

heh, I took a break for a while and wasn't here in June. I didn't even know a 1W diode existed lol

I don't know, I play it safe now by not stepping on the regulations set forth by the wonderful people at the food and....

As far as the projectors go, i could care less about casio. I still don't see how they could ever have any grounds over this. Once a person buys their projector they can rip it apart if they want. I think once they take the diodes out and sell them, casio is out of the equation since they do not manufacture the diodes.
maybe nichia has some grounds on this? but i've never seen a "it is unlawful to use this product in a manner inconsistent with it's label" stuck on the back of a diode......

if only we had a lawyer on tap...

I dont think casio is upset that people are ripping the projectors apart,
but rather that their name keeps popping up with the terms 'burning laser'.
They are probably looking at the fact that their name is becoming synonymous
with hazardous laser products..

I could see a comparison if a rash of DIY'ers found a good supply of explosive
in say an airbag made by Ford..

All the videos on youtube relating Ford to explosives would probably get
under their skin as well..

Maybe not the best example, but you get the idea.

Mohrenberg said:

heh, I took a break for a while and wasn't here in June. I didn't even know a 1W diode existed lol

I don't know, I play it safe now by not stepping on the regulations set forth by the wonderful people at the food and....

As far as the projectors go, i could care less about casio. I still don't see how they could ever have any grounds over this. Once a person buys their projector they can rip it apart if they want. I think once they take the diodes out and sell them, casio is out of the equation since they do not manufacture the diodes.
maybe nichia has some grounds on this? but i've never seen a "it is unlawful to use this product in a manner inconsistent with it's label" stuck on the back of a diode......

if only we had a lawyer on tap...

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Yeah there was a thread of about this on PL, a seller got a cease letter from casio because of his ebay sale listing them as casio diodes, when they are nichia diodes. Once removed from the projector they are no longer associated with casio...

Mohrenberg said:

if only we had a lawyer on tap...

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There's always Crazy Jay

ixfd64 said:

This is a little off-topic, but are the diodes patented by Nichia? If not, then there's a good chance that they'll become very easy to obtain within the next few years.

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ElektroFreak said:

The technology behind all GaN light-emitting devices was developed by Shuji Nakamura et al at Nichia. While I'm not 100% sure how the patent and intellectual property rights break down, I do know that Nichia is exceedingly zealous about protecting their IP. Dr. Nakamura is no longer with Nichia as a result of this zealousness, and the story that unfolded between them is a soap opera. I'm nearly 100% certain that Nichia gets payed by each and every company that makes blue LED/LDs, and will continue to do so for a very long time.

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Flaminpyro said:

Yes I believe it was around 1993-94 that Mr. Shuji and Nichia came out with the blue LED so wouldn't it be aprox 20 years from then that the patent would run out ?

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Oh, it is a sordid tale indeed, very complicated. Once you start reading, it takes a while to sort through the whole timeline in the early 2000s when all the legal battles over this stuff were being fought. Everybody was suing everyone else there for several years. Especially with Shuji suing Nichia and the umpteen versions of Nichia vs. Cree and Rohm and NCSU and everybody else out there, there was a big web of lawsuits there for a while. Nichia is no stranger to the court system.

Suffice to say, Nichia has a commanding lead in the GaN device patent arena, and also a commanding lead in "trade secrets" and industry know-how on how to do things. I want to say I've read they hold something like 2/3 of the GaN-related patents? And certainly many important ones, since they have ALL the original ones with a big lead on the competition. Their first patents begin expiring in 2010 though, 17 years since the first patents were filed in 1993. But things have advanced pretty far since then, the technology is more complicated now with a lot more involved, hence more intellectual property to fight over.

But they don't hold all the patents, AND there are big extensive patent licensing agreements in place between all the companies, often hammered out as the result of lawsuit settlements. Money changes hands, and all the companies use each other's patents.

But it's not just patents, Nichia's really big on trade secrets as well, they can sometimes do things other companies can't seem to reproduce. But other companies have secrets too.

And so there are several companies that can make blue laser diodes. Sony, Sanyo, Sharp, Rohm, Osram, and others come to mind immediately. There are what, a dozen companies out there that can make GaN laser diodes maybe? (just guessing there, I think a dozen is on the high end for lasers) Nichia is the leader of the pack, clearly, but they're not the only game in town. GaN laser diodes are just hard to make though. They're complicated and expensive, and that's just how it is. It's not like medicines where it costs millions to find it but then it's almost free to repeat it once you know the recipe, meaning generic drugs are way cheaper than the name-brand once the patents expire. Laser diodes are hard to make on a consistent basis at all. Even if you have the exact recipe, it's just hard and expensive to repeat it.

yobresal said:

I've actually considered moving my sales thread to the vets section but that is too prohibitive.

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You mean there is a secret squirrels hideout I don't know about? :wtf:

ElektroFreak said:

This debate raged non-stop for weeks back in June when the 445nm diodes first became easily obtained. Should be interesting to see it all happen again. There's simply nothing in life quite like a good case of deja vu.

op:op:

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Have you seen the movie titled "Deja Vu"? When I watched it for the first time I kept thinking I had seen it before...

ZapU said:

There's always Crazy Jay

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op:

Mohrenberg said:

Yeah there was a thread of about this on PL, a seller got a cease letter from casio because of his ebay sale listing them as casio diodes, when they are nichia diodes. Once removed from the projector they are no longer associated with casio...

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I just hope that all the crappola ends up landing on KipKay. That would be justice!

For a time I wanted the 445nm forum hidden so that all the Arctic-N00bs would go away. That stupid laser attracted so much riff-raff to this forum (yes, I know some good people stayed too).

dnar said:

You mean there is a secret squirrels hideout I don't know about? :wtf:

Have you seen the movie titled "Deja Vu"? When I watched it for the first time I kept thinking I had seen it before...


op:


I just hope that all the crappola ends up landing on KipKay. That would be justice!

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That's where we train the super secret Laser enhanced Squirrel Assassins...

It's probably be worth it a trip over to Sciencemadness.org and see what they have to say. Some brilliant people there if you can handle the Balloon Man.

DTR said:

My other thought was with the things we have been hearing lately hiding those sections to registered members may keep away some unwanted attention. Just thinking it may be best for the forum and the members.:beer:

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Makes sense.

I totally understand that such issues need to be discussed in detail, but maybe openly airing ideas to get around any measures taken by them is not the best idea when we also know they're currently actively trying to stop this?

Uhm, i remember i had to manage with some "tamper-proof" triangular screws, in the past ..... they was derived from tri-wing ones, but taking away the corners of the tri-wing in the unscrewing sense, so the screwdriver can get grip when you screw it in, but can't grip when you try to unscrew ..... maybe is just this type of screw ?

They look like a tri-wing, with sort of "triangular hole" overimposed ..... had a profile similar to this:



Is this the same of the new C. ones ?

hey gang

First of all, despite the fact that I am one of the "riff raff" that found this place as a result of the Arctic, I've learned a lot from this (and other similar) threads. I too was curious how the Cas projector played a roll in all this, and why people didn't just buy the diodes themselves - now I know.

Anyway, just thought I'd toss you an idea - how about starting an email list for discussion on hacking the Cas? This way you can invite whomever you like, have an "almost" real time discussion and keep the ideas away from prying eyes.

Plus, the riff raff (like me) won't be able to see what you're up to.

Good luck harvesting.

Actually, one more thing - isn't Wicked Lasers still getting all their diodes from the projector? If so, either they will have to come up with a way of getting the diodes out (thus proving it can be done) or else, poof - no more Arctic!