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Old 07-16-2012, 09:33 PM #1
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Default Blue laser safety question, can i use clear wrap arounds?

First off i want to say this is a great forum with alot of good information. I am really glad i found this place! Ive read about Specular vs. Diffuse Reflections and how specular can cause beaming back at you, even with diffuse with a powerful enough laser (such as mine).

I have 2w blue laser, i have those red laser safety glasses which i always wear anytime it is on, i even wear glasses under them for extra safety (if needed).

My question is, is it safe to observe the blue beam? And the point of where the blue laser hits whatever object without the red glasses? Only clear wrap around glasses? Or could that still cause a photochemical reaction in my eye damaging tissue?



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Old 07-17-2012, 03:44 PM #2
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Default Re: Blue laser safety question, can i use clear wrap arounds?

What are these clear wrap around lenses you are referring to?

2w is a lot of power. If you stare even at the diffused dot on the wall of a matte surface, it is still bright enough to cause eye damage if you stare at it with the naked eye.

The beam itself you are probably safe looking at with the naked eye BUT only if the dot is hidden from sight. The only real safe way to do that is to point the laser into the night sky.

Also it's extremely easy to make a mistake and bounce that beam back into your eye.

2w of blue laser WILL INSTANTLY BLIND YOU if it hits you directly!!! And your eyes DO NOT HEAL!!! EVER!!!

Staring at the diffuse dot is still bright enought to cause permanent eye damage!! You might not be "blind" but you'll probably damage your visual acuity permanently.

Why the hell take these kind of chances? Always wear your goggles everytime you use your laser!!
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Old 07-17-2012, 05:05 PM #3
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Default Re: Blue laser safety question, can i use clear wrap arounds?

The clear goggles will offer no protection at all by themselves, nor do they underneath your other goggles.

Whether or not it is safe to look at the dot of a 2W laser depends entirely on the distance you are from the dot, and the material you are shining your laser on. No one can give you a definitive answer to that question.

There is no harm in observing the beam.

If you want to observe the beam indoors, create a beam dump, and immobilize the laser... while wearing goggles. Only after the laser cannot move, and is directed at a beam dump, take off your safety goggles.

Also get yourself a pair of decent safety goggles...
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Old 07-20-2012, 02:02 PM #4
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Default Re: Blue laser safety question, can i use clear wrap arounds?

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Originally Posted by InfinitusEquitas View Post
The clear goggles will offer no protection at all by themselves, nor do they underneath your other goggles.

Whether or not it is safe to look at the dot of a 2W laser depends entirely on the distance you are from the dot, and the material you are shining your laser on. No one can give you a definitive answer to that question.

There is no harm in observing the beam.

If you want to observe the beam indoors, create a beam dump, and immobilize the laser... while wearing goggles. Only after the laser cannot move, and is directed at a beam dump, take off your safety goggles.

Also get yourself a pair of decent safety goggles...
First off sorry for the delay, thank you for the responses. Good to know the clear glasses wont provide any protection, i treat my laser as if it was a loaded gun. I understand how dangerous it is and i value my vision. I will look into building beam ***** and such. I always lock it down as i read what happened to that guy had a 1w laser roll of the table and hit his eye.

I think its great that "Responsible Adults" are able to buy these without a license. But everyone must respect these lasers as if they were a loaded gun or playing with fire. Just because it looks pretty dosnt mean it cannot hurt you
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Old 07-20-2012, 02:36 PM #5
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Default Re: Blue laser safety question, can i use clear wrap arounds?

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Just because it looks pretty dosnt mean it cannot hurt you
In nature, the prettier things tend to also often be the most dangerous. Have fun lasering.
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Old 07-20-2012, 02:59 PM #6
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Default Re: Blue laser safety question, can i use clear wrap arounds?

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In nature, the prettier things tend to also often be the most dangerous. Have fun lasering.
+1!......
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Old 07-23-2012, 08:49 PM #7
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Default Re: Blue laser safety question, can i use clear wrap arounds?

Guys, I apologize. Apparently my advice was wrong, so I take it back and will not do so anymore.
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Old 07-24-2012, 03:52 AM #8
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Default Re: Blue laser safety question, can i use clear wrap arounds?

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What are these clear wrap around lenses you are referring to?

2w is a lot of power. If you stare even at the diffused dot on the wall of a matte surface, it is still bright enough to cause eye damage if you stare at it with the naked eye.

The beam itself you are probably safe looking at with the naked eye BUT only if the dot is hidden from sight. The only real safe way to do that is to point the laser into the night sky.

Also it's extremely easy to make a mistake and bounce that beam back into your eye.

2w of blue laser WILL INSTANTLY BLIND YOU if it hits you directly!!! And your eyes DO NOT HEAL!!! EVER!!!

Staring at the diffuse dot is still bright enought to cause permanent eye damage!! You might not be "blind" but you'll probably damage your visual acuity permanently.

Why the hell take these kind of chances? Always wear your goggles everytime you use your laser!!
Not everything you said is wrong. Just the pieces highlighted in red.

I just hate when paranoid misinformation is spread. Yes, lasers are dangerous, however they can be safely handled, and enjoyed.
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Old 07-24-2012, 04:01 AM #9
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Default Re: Blue laser safety question, can i use clear wrap arounds?

The only thing I disagree with your disagreement is on the staring of the dot of a 2w blue laser.

I have a couple of 1w 445nm's and that dot is insanely bright even when reflecting off a flat black surface. Inside a room that might only be 5-10 meters across do you think it would not cause damage to stare at the dot with no protection? I can't even imagine how bright a 2w laser would be.

Someone here had done a test on the reflection of a 1w 445nm beam of a flat white surface, and it was reflecting back about 40mW from a distance of a couple of feet. So then logically the reflection has the potential to throw up to 40mW of blue light into your eyes!

It probably won't permanently blind you, but I've read the stories of people becoming color blind due to the fatigue of the blue sensing portion of the cones due to staring at the dots with the naked eye. Why even run that risk? I prefer to be paranoid in this regard! I only have 2 eyes.

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Old 07-24-2012, 04:19 AM #10
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Default Re: Blue laser safety question, can i use clear wrap arounds?

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The only thing I disagree with your disagreement is on the staring of the dot of a 2w blue laser.

I have a couple of 1w 445nm's and that dot is insanely bright even when reflecting off a flat black surface. Inside a room that might only be 5-10 meters across do you think it would not cause damage to stare at the dot with no protection? I can't even imagine how bright a 2w laser would be.

Someone here had done a test on the reflection of a 1w 445nm beam of a flat white surface, and it was reflecting back about 40mW from a distance of a couple of feet. So then logically the reflection has the potential to throw up to 40mW of blue light into your eyes!

It probably won't permanently blind you, but I've read the stories of people becoming color blind due to the fatigue of the blue sensing portion of the cones due to staring at the dots with the naked eye. Why even run that risk? I prefer to be paranoid in this regard! I only have 2 eyes.
Uhm, yeah, in recent times that someone was me

(I'm sure people have done a similar experiment before, and after me, I just wanted to asses the risk for myself... and did so while wearing certified goggles.)

The results were a bit different though. From two feet away I wasn't getting any reading on a TEC lpm, possibly 1mW. I tried all kinds of stuff lying around the house. Aside from blatantly reflective surfaces (doorknob, piece of glass, mirror, white bathroom tile, glossy plastic) I wasn't able to get a reading at any kind of distance, from a diffuse reflection, from over ~18 inches.

The problem with judging a laser but saying the "laser dot is insanely bright" is our eyes perceive only a very narrow band of energy as light, and even within that space, the perception is now the same. The dot of a 200mW 532nm laser would be a whole lot more unpleasant to look at for example, then say the dot of a 1W 445nm laser.

The difference is even greater when you get toward the edges of the visible spectrum. The dot from a 2W 808nm laser would not appear bright at all. About the same as 3-5mW of 650nm... meaning your cheapie red keychain pointer. At the same time the damage it would do with a direct hit, would be incomparable.

The blue light hazard, that's another issue, and one I can't really comment on.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for safety, but there is safety, and then there is paranoia.
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Old 07-24-2012, 08:52 AM #11
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Default Re: Blue laser safety question, can i use clear wrap arounds?

There is some safety margin in laser classification.
Anyway it's pain to look at I guess. I only looked at 500mW blue dot, and it's pain enough, and leaves afterimages. Both are warning symptoms you are getting close to what your eyes can handle.
I've never seen dot of my 1.5W indoors and I don't plan to.
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Old 07-25-2012, 12:24 AM #12
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Default Re: Blue laser safety question, can i use clear wrap arounds?

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The difference is even greater when you get toward the edges of the visible spectrum. The dot from a 2W 808nm laser would not appear bright at all. About the same as 3-5mW of 650nm... meaning your cheapie red keychain pointer. At the same time the damage it would do with a direct hit, would be incomparable.

The blue light hazard, that's another issue, and one I can't really comment on.
So it sounds like you're saying that the reflection has to be visible to cause damage.

So are you saying that the diffused reflection of a 2w 808nm beam is safe to look at simply because it's practically invisible?

And as for blue light, isn't that exactly what we are discussing here? The original poster is referring to a 2w 445nm beam. The reflection of that is going to be f'ing bright! even off a matte black surface! I find it hard to believe that this light can be looked at safely with no protection on (assuming there was no way for a direct beam to bounce back).
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Old 07-25-2012, 01:48 AM #13
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Default Re: Blue laser safety question, can i use clear wrap arounds?

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So it sounds like you're saying that the reflection has to be visible to cause damage.

So are you saying that the diffused reflection of a 2w 808nm beam is safe to look at simply because it's practically invisible?

And as for blue light, isn't that exactly what we are discussing here? The original poster is referring to a 2w 445nm beam. The reflection of that is going to be f'ing bright! even off a matte black surface! I find it hard to believe that this light can be looked at safely with no protection on (assuming there was no way for a direct beam to bounce back).
No, NO, and NO

Why don't you stop trying to read between the lines, jumping to assumptions, and actually do some reading about laser safety instead?

I'm not saying a reflection has to be visible to be dangerous, that would be insane.

What I am saying is you can't make any assessment with regards to the danger of a laser, based on it's visual appearance. Many lasers do not have ANY visible output whatsoever, this makes them more dangerous, not less.

I mean do you realize how little of the energy spectrum we are actually capable of seeing with our eyes?

What we were discussing here was LASER SAFETY. Not the Blue Light Hazard. That's akin to talking about lead poisoning when talking about gun safety.

What you believe, or not, has no bearing on reality fortunately.
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Old 07-25-2012, 02:28 AM #14
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Default Re: Blue laser safety question, can i use clear wrap arounds?

The OP posted a question if it is safe to stare at the beam of a 2w 445nm. He asked if it was safe to only use wraparounds.

Nobody had answered his questions. I don't pretend to be an expert on the subject, but I figured at least I would give him some helpful information so that he wouldn't be TEMPTED to fuck around with his laser without any eye protection.

This is what I posted:

What are these clear wrap around lenses you are referring to?

I have no idea what he is referring to, so that's why I asked

2w is a lot of power. If you stare even at the diffused dot on the wall of a matte surface, it is still bright enough to cause eye damage if you stare at it with the naked eye.

You admitted that it is unsafe to do this EXACT SAME THING!! I should have specified that I was referring to the OP's 2w Laser, and NOT in general, but I thought that was understood

The beam itself you are probably safe looking at with the naked eye BUT only if the dot is hidden from sight. The only real safe way to do that is to point the laser into the night sky.

I guess I could have mentioned the beam dump and immobilizing the laser, but otherwise I see nothing wrong with what I said.

Also it's extremely easy to make a mistake and bounce that beam back into your eye.

For an experiencer user like yourself this is probably not the case. For a newbie like the OP I would consider this to be true.

2w of blue laser WILL INSTANTLY BLIND YOU if it hits you directly!!! And your eyes DO NOT HEAL!!! EVER!!!

I see nothing wrong with this. With immediate emergency care, you might end up with a huge hole in your central or peripheral vision instead of complete vision loss. This is still blind IMO

Staring at the diffuse dot is still bright enought to cause permanent eye damage!! You might not be "blind" but you'll probably damage your visual acuity permanently.

What's wrong with this? You yourself just verified that staring at a diffuse dot with no protection is unsafe.

Why the hell take these kind of chances? Always wear your goggles everytime you use your laser!!


Quote:
What we were discussing here was LASER SAFETY. Not the Blue Light Hazard. That's akin to talking about lead poisoning when talking about gun safety.
No. YOU brought up the topic of general laser safety, when the OP had simply asked about his particular 2w blue laser. Lasers in general are so varied that you are correct in that no safety protocol is a "one size fits all". In the case of a 2w 445nm beam, we CAN say what would be a safe protocol. I fail to see how this is not "reality"
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Old 07-25-2012, 03:03 AM #15
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Default Re: Blue laser safety question, can i use clear wrap arounds?

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Originally Posted by FutureOne View Post
The OP posted a question if it is safe to stare at the beam of a 2w 445nm. He asked if it was safe to only use wraparounds.

Nobody had answered his questions. I don't pretend to be an expert on the subject, but I figured at least I would give him some helpful information so that he wouldn't be TEMPTED to fuck around with his laser without any eye protection.

The OP asked four specific questions. I answered three of them. You in turn asked a question, and went to a paranoid extreme "The beam itself you are probably safe looking at with the naked eye BUT only if the dot is hidden from sight. " and "2w of blue laser WILL INSTANTLY BLIND YOU if it hits you directly!!! And your eyes DO NOT HEAL!!! EVER!!!

Staring at the diffuse dot is still bright enought to cause permanent eye damage!! You might not be "blind" but you'll probably damage your visual acuity permanently.
" remember?


This is what I posted:

What are these clear wrap around lenses you are referring to?

I have no idea what he is referring to, so that's why I asked

What does it matter what kind of wrap around lenses he is referring to? We are talking about a visible wavelength... clear goggles do very little to block visible light. At most maybe 10%, possibly UV and IR, but that's irrelevant.

2w is a lot of power. If you stare even at the diffused dot on the wall of a matte surface, it is still bright enough to cause eye damage if you stare at it with the naked eye.

You admitted that it is unsafe to do this EXACT SAME THING!! I should have specified that I was referring to the OP's 2w Laser, and NOT in general, but I thought that was understood

When did admit this exactly? It is perfectly safe depending on the material, and distance that you are from the dot.

The beam itself you are probably safe looking at with the naked eye BUT only if the dot is hidden from sight. The only real safe way to do that is to point the laser into the night sky.

I guess I could have mentioned the beam dump and immobilizing the laser, but otherwise I see nothing wrong with what I said.

Really, to me it seems like you stated that there is only one way to use a laser safely. That's simply not the case.

Also it's extremely easy to make a mistake and bounce that beam back into your eye.

For an experiencer user like yourself this is probably not the case. For a newbie like the OP I would consider this to be true.

...you'll note I didn't highlight that part of your post in red.

2w of blue laser WILL INSTANTLY BLIND YOU if it hits you directly!!! And your eyes DO NOT HEAL!!! EVER!!!

I see nothing wrong with this. With immediate emergency care, you might end up with a huge hole in your central or peripheral vision instead of complete vision loss. This is still blind IMO

Uhm... once again... I never said there is anything wrong with that part of your post. Go back to post #8 and READ.

Staring at the diffuse dot is still bright enought to cause permanent eye damage!! You might not be "blind" but you'll probably damage your visual acuity permanently.

What's wrong with this? You yourself just verified that staring at a diffuse dot with no protection is unsafe.

No... I didn't. Here's what I actually said "Whether or not it is safe to look at the dot of a 2W laser depends entirely on the distance you are from the dot, and the material you are shining your laser on. "

Why the hell take these kind of chances? Always wear your goggles everytime you use your laser!!


No. YOU brought up the topic of general laser safety, when the OP had simply asked about his particular 2w blue laser. Lasers in general are so varied that you are correct in that no safety protocol is a "one size fits all". In the case of a 2w 445nm beam, we CAN say what would be a safe protocol. I fail to see how this is not "reality"

Here's the OP's thread title... "Blue laser safety question, can i use clear wrap arounds?" The main question. You know... the one you never actually answered.
My answers are in green.

Your failures are none of my concern either fortunately.
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Old 07-25-2012, 03:06 AM #16
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Default Re: Blue laser safety question, can i use clear wrap arounds?

Man you go to great lengths to prove your "status" here. Good luck with that.
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