FS: >110mW PHR, >140mW 4x & >170mW 6x Blu-Rays

Re: FS: >110mW PHR, >140mW 4x & >170mW 6x Blu-Rays

Helioplasma said:

I like the small host next to the classic model... It'd be cool to have a upgrade combo small host+6* diode + custum lens don't ya think ? how much for this host ?

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Dear Helioplasma, i am not making any money on your particular upgrade, so how exactly would this be a combo? :-?


The tiny laser with a PHR diode is $195, because the parts cost $20 less than with my main model...

Re: FS: >110mW PHR, >140mW 4x & >170mW 6x Blu-Rays

I try to get the great pics, but other members seem to be the real photography masters!  :

Yes Igor the last time the night was real foggy and those are in my back yard.  

This in in the living room, also done with fog.

BTW, Thanks Igor! You Rock!

Re: FS: >110mW PHR, >140mW 4x & >170mW 6x Blu-Rays

I thought all those pics you sent in an email were done with your fog machine!

How i wish we would have such a foggy night here!  ;D



Otherwise, your pictures are just fine. I don't know what you're worried about. Did you have the lights off in the above one?

Re: FS: >110mW PHR, >140mW 4x & >170mW 6x Blu-Rays

Lights were on, and the indoor was made fog. But it all starts with Igor's great lasers! My Dorcy image looked a little fuzzy and the "Dorcy" logo should be straight for a better pic.

Of course with the great lasers I get from Igor, My pics are better than before!

scopeguy does a happy dance!

Re: FS: >110mW PHR, >140mW 4x & >170mW 6x Blu-Rays

Anyway, i calculated i had to sell approximatelly 17 6x lasers to start the Custom Lens Group Buy (since we have to buy 250+ at once, and i will buy whatever is missing from 250 myself - up to 100 if necessary).

I got 3 6x orders since then, so the "countdown" is at 14 now.....


Every order helps, even if it's not a 6x, and will be rewarded! I want to do the lenses ASAP, and hopefully bring the hobby to a whole new level.


This is the finish line. You have all helped me get this far, and i thank you all a lot! I could not possibly do any of it without all the support - i would go broke!

Now, that i finally have the 6x's, all i need is a few more orders, and we're there!

Re: FS: >110mW PHR, >140mW 4x & >170mW 6x Blu-Rays

I'm starting to get impatient hehehe.
I forgot to ask you something : 6x can handle higher currents, but will there be a stricter duty cycle ? What diode lifetime can I expect if I ask you to run mine at 180mA (with custom lens obviously) ? I remember tbe PHR didn't pass the 15 hour bar running at 115mW (130-140mA is it ?). At what mA do you usually set your lasers before you sell them ?


PS : when you send my laser back, don't forget to send me my hard pencil case, coz it's the only one that can hold four lasers at the time

Re: FS: >110mW PHR, >140mW 4x & >170mW 6x Blu-Rays

Helioplasma said:

I'm starting to get impatient hehehe.

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You have nothing to be impatient about. I told you when i get more 6x's. That's when i get them, and that's when i will ship your upgraded laser back to you.

You should be HAPPY you're getting a 6x at all! I paid $350 for my first, and waited over a month for it! But i was still happy, and i NEVER regretted it!

Helioplasma said:

I forgot to ask you something : 6x can handle higher currents, but will there be a stricter duty cycle?

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No.. You see, contrary to the popular belief (aka "The Duty Cycle Monster" myth), higher power does NOT mean a shorter duty cycle. Higher power means a shorter life!

Duty cycle is only required, when a diode is overheating. And when it is not overheating, all a duty cycle does is, it makes you use your laser less.
That way it can actually prolong the life of a diode in days, or even months, but in hours, the difference is actually the opposite - it can be shorter, from more power-up/down related stresses.


In reality, the difference in heat created by a 6x at 160mW and a 6x at 200mW is not that big. Let's look at my old 6x for example..

The heat is very easy to calculate. I have a full P/I/V plot of my diode (as will you, of your diode), all the info is in it, and the heat created, is simply the difference between the power going in (electrical), and the power coming out (optical). Since it is impossible for less power to come out, than what goes in, the difference has to go somewhere too - it is converted to heat.  The ratio of optical vs. thermal power created by a diode is called "efficiency"....

My old 6x at 150mW:
Pin = 0.180A x 5.21V = 0.9378W
Pout = 0.160W
Heat = 0.0.7778W

My old 6x at 200mW:
Pin = 0.215A x 5.38V = 1.1567W
Pout = 0.200W
Heat = 0.9576W

Difference between heat at 200 and 160mW = 0.1789W

So at 160mW it only produces 18.7% less heat than at 200mW. That doesn't really make much of a difference, when it comes to the temperature of the diode, in a well heatsinked laser. But at 160mW it will live a LOT longer than at 200mW, because at 160mW after a plastic lens, the raw output is below the diode's pulsed ratings, while at 200mW after plastics, the raw output is quite a bit above pulsed ratings (over 250mW!).

For a diode to survive, it has to be capable of withstanding it's own output power. Theoretically, every diode can be set to ANY power. But the quetion is - how long.. A 5mW diode can produce a short burst of 100mW, but it will fry in a split second. Or it may fry half way to 100mW..

For the manufacturers to make more powerful diodes, they have to make diodes with end facets, that can withstand a higher optical flux (among other things). If the tiny mirrors can't withstand the optical energy, they can start burning up, and once a spot on it burns up, the diode is practically dead. That point will stop reflecting light and start absorbing it, and become a hotspot, increasing the "strain" on the areas around it. Once a large enough area fails, it takes the whole diode down with it, almost in an instant. That is what we call CO(M)D - Catastrophic Optical (Mirror) Damage.

Basically, the mirrors have to be capable of withstanding the diode's output power. If they are not, the diode will die. And usually, diodes don't like to be set above their pulsed ratings.

Surprisingly enough the 6x can survive even 200mW after plastics for a very long time, but at a certain small risk, which is always present....

Helioplasma said:

What diode lifetime can I expect if I ask you to run mine at 180mA (with custom lens obviously)?

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I can't tell you the specific lifetime in hours just yet. I will have to murder three 6x's to figure that out. And i can't do that from the first package, so it'll have to be from the second one.

However, the one i bought almost half a year ago.. It cost me a fortune. But i risked it and set it to 200mA. I used it A LOT. More than you ever will.
When i use a PHR at 160mW that much, it is dead in one to three weeks! But my 6x is still alive. On top of that, i used it for numerous experiments, when it was on for a lot of time. Heatsink testing, lens testing, you name it... And this one time, i fell asleep with the 6x ON. It turned off when the battery protection kicked in an hour and a half later! But it's still alive and well!

Based on that, i believe a 6x in the hands of an average user would last a year if not longer, even if set to 200mW. However the higher you go, the higher the risk, that a weaker one will suddenly reveal itself by popping unexpectedly....

You have to know, there is always a small risk, when using diodes outside their ratings. You never know what will happen. With testing, you can establish some general guidelines, where the risk is small and acceptable. But even within the diode's ratings, a weakling can still pop - if you read a diode datasheet, it will say, that statistically one diode out of so many can and will always fail, no matter what you do.


From my experience with other 405nm diodes and my personal 6x, i believe 170-200mW is a reasonably high range for 6x's. Altho many engineers would tell you it's too much - to set it to 130mW! But i know you all want power!  ;D

So i try to find a balance between power and acceptable risk... I don't like going too high, or i'd be selling 150mW PHRs. So if i am willing to set a 6x to 180mW for a good, high, but still decently lasting power, then you don't have to worry too much. Altho my Maximum Reliability recommendation would be 165mW, because there the raw output is at the diode's pulsed power raitng. 200mW is my Max Power recommendation, 180mW is almost in the middle..


Problem is, no one respects 165mW anymore these days, altho it is a LOT of power! But people expect that much from PHRs! But i have a personal high power PHR laser, in which i had to replace the PHR diode, set to 150-170mW, almost ten times, during the same time in which my 6x at 193mW just kept going! And that with the same use or even higher on the 6x, since i use the most powerful laser the most!

With a PHR at 165mW, you get a high power laser you can have, but if you actually use it, you don't have it for very long. With a 6x, you get a high power laser you can USE. As much as you like! And it'll just keep going...


PHRs (and seemingly most 405nm's) have this unusual ability to be set to powers, where any normal diode should pop instantly, at first powerup, But they just keep on going! Often long enough to fool you into thinking they will survive (happened to me every time). They had the ability to show us, what high powers look like, but only 6x's can actually also deliver those powers with any kind of reliability. The PHR is a reader diode. The 6x is a WRITER! A 6x speed writer!

Helioplasma said:

I remember tbe PHR didn't pass the 15 hour bar running at  115mW (130-140mA is it ?). At what mA do you usually set your lasers before you sell them ?

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No, you mixed something up here. The 27 PHR diodes i killed in testing were set between 150-170mW. They lasted 3-15 hours, 20 hours in one case (= lifetime when cycled - much longer when just left on continuously).


If they would only live 15 hours at 115mW, i would NOT be setting them this high! But most PHRs can survive 115-125mW for a decent duration of average use.. In some cases they will even outlive the user's interest. That's why this is the power i use for PHRs - the risk is low and acceptable IMO.

But just like i mentioned above, there are always weaker diodes, that won't survive what most will. You have to understand, we are squeezing these for all they are worth (and more).. There is no way to identify the weaker ones up front.. You only know they WERE weaker, once they are dead..

Helioplasma said:

PS : when you send my laser back, don't forget to send me my hard pencil case, coz it's the only one that can hold four lasers at the time  

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Of course, your laser is still safelly stored in there. Don't worry about it..

Re: FS: >110mW PHR, >140mW 4x & >170mW 6x Blu-Rays

OMG, it just took me five hours just to answer all emails! (and it's not even close to a record)

And i should be working!  :-[


I encourage everyone to ask as many questions as possible, but i might not be able to answer immediatelly, when i work. I really hope you understand.... So maybe general questions should be asked here on the thread, since you are mostly all interested about same or at least similar things...


Maybe we should try to move general questions here, and order-specific questions to emails? It might help, and give me more time to actually make your lasers, instead of just talking about them all the time (not that i mind that, but it's hard to do both)!  ;D



Again: Don't stop writing emails! Write as much as you want. But beam visibility / burning power / build specifications and "Why is my 300mW red not as bright as my friends 30mW green? Shouldn't it be 10 times as visible?" can all be asked here, and often other people and previous buyers will be able to help me answer it all, and it will only have to be answered once or twice, IF everyone reads it.

At the same time, most of these questions were all answered long ago, burried somewhere in the depths of this thread. However, there are people, who read it completelly, even if it is long, often before writing me the first email. At least the interesting posts, that explain stuff.. And in that case, they already know everything i otherwise spend hours upon hours explaining..


Hmm, maybe i should write a "comprehensive table of contents", with links to all the important posts on the first page.. But when?  ;D

Re: FS: >110mW PHR, >140mW 4x & >170mW 6x Blu-Rays

Hahaha igor. Not to mention once you get the table of contents posted if it's not in the first post, it will get buried as well. I've got 78 pages on my epic Groove thread and literally hundreds of posts answering the same question over and over again.

It's all for the hobby right?!??!?!

Awesome builds and I'm even considering purchasing one and lemme tell ya, I NEVER purchase what I can build myself. Yet yours (and jayrobs new pocket cree host) both are SPECTACULAR builds and make me want one!!!

Re: FS: >110mW PHR, >140mW 4x & >170mW 6x Blu-Rays

Hehe, yea, i know, the Comprehensive Table of Contents would have to be in the second post. That's what i meant..

But i do actually think it would help! Just like it would help if more general questions were asked here. I know they will be asked multiple times (they already were), but at least the people talking to me at the same time would hopefully read the answers here, and have one question less to ask.

Not that i mind answeering questions, but i simply can't afford to do nothing else but write emails from when i wake up to when i go to sleep! It was even worse, when i was still available on various instant messangers! I just couldn't get any actual work done, till i went offline. The same is the reason why i went offline for the last two months, and didn't even read the forum - i have a business to keep afloat, and it was the end of the year! I'm gradually trying to return to the forum only now.




Anyway, for the buyers from my last batch (instead of writing 12 emails):
- Shipping goes forward as planned! No need to send emails about this, i will contact you when it's all done.
- Those who had extra wishes will be shipped one day later, as discussed....
- I'm very busy with the final testing and packaging, so please understand, if i don't answer emails instantaneously! (the packaging is the craziest part - making sure that all the lenses are clean, that i don't forget something, etc....)


Thank you for your understanding!

Re: FS: >110mW PHR, >140mW 4x & >170mW 6x Blu-Rays

Hello!

I'm interested in a 6x with glass lenses too. What do I have to do to order and all?

regards,
ssl

Re: FS: >110mW PHR, >140mW 4x & >170mW 6x Blu-Rays

You have to write me an email, that's all..
For the lens i'll add you to the GB, as all my buyers.

Email address is in my profile..

Re: FS: >110mW PHR, >140mW 4x & >170mW 6x Blu-Rays

Ok, the first round of 6x's is shipped, the ones with extras are being wrapped up too.

After i'm done i have to type in measurements for P/I/V plots of 12 6x diodes!

But it will be the first 6x batch test report... It will tell us a lot about them!



Anyway, once i'm done with the last of it, i will contact everyone with your specific info and all the graphs you requested..

Re: FS: >110mW PHR, >140mW 4x & >170mW 6x Blu-Rays

Ordered (thanks Jayrob and Scopeguy20!)

Re: FS: >110mW PHR, >140mW 4x & >170mW 6x Blu-Rays

Although my recent 4x Igor build is great, I've gotta' get a 6x nowwww!!






Mail sent.

Re: FS: >110mW PHR, >140mW 4x & >170mW 6x Blu-Rays

I got your order Th0ughts. Thanks!

You are right in the next 6x batch (ships next week), and with this the countdown is at 9!