FS: >110mW PHR, >140mW 4x & >170mW 6x Blu-Rays

FS: >110mW PHR, >140mW 4x & 170-200mW 6x Blu-Rays

So you don't like my tiny AAA laser? :-/

But it is so cute! And tiny! I fell in love with it, the moment the first prototype was made.. It suddenly became my most used laser!  

Re: FS: >110mW PHR, >140mW 4x & >170mW 6x Blu-Rays

Is that the 3410 that blinks at low power? ive noticed this in a rominsen with a 4x, then when the battery is changed or charged the slow blink disappears... Thought this was a bad driver, but it seems to happen only on a low charge.

Re: FS: >110mW PHR, >140mW 4x & 170-200mW 6x Blu-R

IgorT said:

So you don't like my tiny AAA laser? :-/

But it is so cute! And tiny! I fell in love with it, the moment the first prototype was made.. It suddenly became my most used laser!  

Click to expand...

I love it! I was just making the point that it was a poor attempt at humor. I was not trying to trigger any action.

Peace,
dave

Re: FS: >110mW PHR, >140mW 4x & >170mW 6x Blu-Rays

wannaburn said:

Is that the 3410 that blinks at low power? ive noticed this in a rominsen with a 4x, then when the battery is changed or charged the slow blink disappears...  Thought this was a bad driver, but it seems to happen only on a low charge.

Click to expand...

All switchers can do that at a certain point, when the voltage gets too low - regardless of the chip. It is not an indication of a bad driver, it's just a relationship between these types of drivers and the battery behavior.

Imagine it like this:
- Driver draws current from the battery, right. And the voltage constantly drops from this current draw.
- Since these are switchers, the lower the voltage is, the higher the current draw! When the battery is empty, the driver is pulling the most current out of it, to get the same power in, in order to be able to put the same power out.
- So this high current draw causes the battery voltage to drop below the driver's minimum operating voltage, and the driver shuts down.
- But when the driver shuts down, it stops drawing current, and the battery suddenly jumps up in voltage from the relief.
- And suddenly the driver gets enough votage to start working again.
- But as soon as it does, the current draw, drops the voltage below the minimum again.
- And over, and over, and over again.....
- The blinking becomes faster and fasteer, as there is less and less juice left in the battery - the current draws become shorter.
- At a certain point, there is not enough left, for the driver to even pull a short burst of current from the battery anymore.....


But the "problem" is, my driver keeps on working down to 2V. That is perfect for conditions in a 2xAAA pen, when you want to use up the 1.5V batteries to their fullest. But with Li-Ions, you want them to be protected. Otherwise, my driver would discharge them too low, and damage them with each cycle.


So because of that, i did some modifications to the driver, and built in an intentional slow blink, which happens at a higher voltage, than where it would occur "naturally". It starts at a voltage, where the Li-Ion is not yet damaged from underdischarging.. That way, it's kinda like "Li-Ion protection warning" built into the driver...


Without at least a warning (well, this warning effectivelly prevents you from using a battery too long), i would not be willing to sell a laser that uses unprotected batteries.

But even so, i don't really love unprotected batteries, so i will convert these to work off a single 1.5V Alkaline or even an 1.2V Ni-MHs, as soon as i find some free time... I just hope i get a similar efficiency..



P.S.: If you noticed this blink on a PROTECTED battery however,  it is a completelly different (and yet similar) thing. In that case, it's because the battery protection circuit is imperfect. It then depends more on the battery than on a particulad driver. Switchers are still more likelly to cause it since their current draw increases as the input voltage drops!

What happens there is, that the high current draw causes the battery protection to kick in and cut off the battery. And as it shuts off, the relief to the battery is just enough for the voltage to increase back above the limit, and the battery protection turns back off (turns the battery back ON), and the driver suddenly gets juice again.

This blinking is muuch much faster than what you'd normally experience from simply empty voltage uprotected batteries. And this blinking is something i don't really like, cos it can't be good for diodes! It is often so rapid, that you don't even notice it at first!! But on an LPM, you'd see the power dropping, as the laser suddenly becomes pulsed rapidly!


It's quite scary actually, and it bothers me. I mark those batteries as dangerous. A good battery protection circuit should shut the battery down and NOT allow it to turn back on simply cos it shut down. That's just ridiculous. There should be some hysteresys built in. But for some reason only some batteries do it. And i don't mean some models, just some rare batteries every once in a while, among all models.

Re: FS: >110mW PHR, >140mW 4x & 170-200mW 6x Blu-R

daguin said:

I love it!  I was just making the point that it was a poor attempt at humor.  I was not trying to trigger any action.

Peace,
dave

Click to expand...

You better love it, cos you're getting it wheather you like it or not!  :-?

Also, please try not to exceed the STRICT duty cycle, which with 4x's at 140-150mW in this build is preciselly 7 minutes, ok?  
You betteer have a stopwatch ready every time you turn it on. Or you can just count to 420, if you prefer.  :



P.S. What do you think of the side button model?
(Note to self: Make better pics!)

Re: FS: >110mW PHR, >140mW 4x & 170-200mW 6x Blu-R

IgorT said:

[quote author=daguin link=1210968450/940#947 date=1231308215]I love it!  I was just making the point that it was a poor attempt at humor.  I was not trying to trigger any action.
Peace,
dave

Click to expand...

You better love it, cos you're getting it wheather you like it or not!  :-?
Also, please try not to exceed the STRICT duty cycle, which with 4x's at 140-150mW in this build is preciselly 7 minutes, ok?  
You betteer have a stopwatch ready every time you turn it on. Or you can just count to 420, if you prefer.  :
P.S. What do you think of the side button model?  
(Note to self: Make better pics!)[/quote]

one mississippi, two mississippi, three mississippi, four mississippi . . . . . . . . . . .419 mississippi, 420 mississippi

I actually like side button hosts. I've built a few, but they are all in the community now. I mean REALLY . . . . how many lasers can one man have

Peace,
dave

Re: FS: >110mW PHR, >140mW 4x & >170mW 6x Blu-Rays

IgorT said:

[highlight]One is already on it's way to Jayrob, since he helped with the prototyping. [/highlight]But TNT actually managed to loose the package that should have been delivered to Glenn last week! (they found it in Slovenia today, one week after it should have been delivered!?!  ) The one in the picture goes to Glenn, for all the help he offered to me over the time. And just yesterday i got more 4x diodes in.. I hope i find some good ones among them... The good efficiency[highlight] 4x's are just the perfect power for this tiny laser![/highlight]

Click to expand...

Schweet! (as he admits to himself - 'I've always wanted an IgorT build')

Can't wait to get that little shirt pocket beauty! Are you saying that it has a 4X in it?
Jay

Re: FS: >110mW PHR, >140mW 4x & 170-200mW 6x Blu-R

daguin said:

one mississippi, two mississippi, three mississippi, four mississippi . . . . . . . . . . .419 mississippi, 420 mississippi

Click to expand...

Looks like you've got the hang of it... I think your tiny AAA 4x will be just fine, as long as you don't forget to count..

daguin said:

I actually like side button hosts.  I've built a few, but they are all in the community now.  I mean REALLY . . . . how many lasers can one man have

Click to expand...

I remember you saying you like sidebutton lasers, that's why i'm asking what you think of my side button build..

Otherwise, with me, it's the other way around. I never get a chance to make myself the lasers i want to...

Re: FS: >110mW PHR, >140mW 4x & >170mW 6x Blu-Rays

jayrob said:

Schweet! (as he admits to himself - 'I've always wanted an IgorT build')

Can't wait to get that little shirt pocket beauty! Are you saying that it has a 4X in it?
Jay

Click to expand...

Well, i really hope you like it. It's a very cute tiny laser, and it's amazing how much power this tiny thing can provide!


Otherwise, what i meant to say was, that if 4x's were more consistent, and could provide 140-150mW reliably, they would be the perfect power for the heatsinking capabilities of this build. But only the best 4x diodes can reach that without going over the kink....


Unfortunatelly yours was made and shipped (first shipping attempt, that is) before i got the idea of trying 4x's in this build. And i was out of 4x's till this Monday.

So your laser was made with a high efficiency high wavelength PHR instead. It's somewhere above 123mW IIRC (@131mA).... The driver does have the two higher current settings tho. One for a 4x and one for a 6x (166 & 200mA)....


Altho now, after the second shipping screwup (and TNT at that!), i realized, i could just as well have kept it till the 4x's arrived.
I had no idea TNT can lose a $70 package for a week!  


EDIT: TNT finally delivered the package! It's at Glenn's.. He is forwarding yours to you.

Re: FS: >110mW PHR, >140mW 4x & >170mW 6x Blu-Rays

cant wait to see the special 6x

Re: FS: >110mW PHR, >140mW 4x & >170mW 6x Blu-Rays

satellitedr3ams said:

cant wait to see the special 6x

Click to expand...

What do you mean the special 6x's? Every 6x is special! :-?

Or did you mean the ueber-tiny ones?

The WHAT​

Since i would like to start the lens GB ASAP, i decided to sell two of my personal builds, but with 6x's inside....


You've seen Dorcys before, but while these look the same from the outside, they have absolutelly NOTHING in common with any other Dorcy build you have EVER seen, except of course the host itself.


What's inside, is something i designed for myself. It was meant as a self challenge - to make the perfect, most stable pocket laser possible at all! It was not meant for sale, but i need to get the money for the lens GB together. I can always make myself new ones at a later time...


Just so you can imagine, what this babies can do:
During testing, i put an open can at 450mA into one of them, and i had to run it for 45 minutes straight, before the diode even reached body temperature! After that, i left it running another 30 minutes, but the temperature did not increase any further. That's practically unlimited duty cycle, even for a 300mW red, while a blu ray diode will feel cold in here most of the time. You may wanna keep it in your pocket, so it doesn't freeze.. You will of course get a power graph of with this laser, to show it's stability.

The end result is the most stable power you will ever see in a passivelly cooled handheld laser. How exactly this was achieved, i will explain and show in the next post, along with the other specs....


You can get a 170-200mW (your choice) 6x Blu Ray laser in one of these, or you could even get a 6x Blu + Open can Red couple, if you really wanted to...

After the lens GB, the power of a 6x Blu Ray will be increased by 15% with the medium FL custom lens or 23% with the short FL custom lens. If it is set to 200mW, the short FL custom lens would make it 246mW! If i set it to 204mW after a plastic lens, it will go to 251mW after the short FL custom lens! (I am willing to go that high, IF you understand what it means)


You can have them with or without the apperture cap. The apperture cap allows easy focusing, holds the lens more stable, and offers good protection from dust, most of the time.. When not using the laser, you can put it on it's head, on a clean surface, and no dust will get inside. If you want it without the apperture-cap, you will of course get lens caps, to put on, when not in use..


The price is $15 more than my main model regardless of the diode option, the apperture cap is $13 on top of that (both just the difference in material cost).


There are only four of these in existence, and only two of them are available.... I will make myself another two in the future, but i am not likelly to offer them for sale again....

One of these is in Scopeguy20's hands - an open can red, putting out 295mW through an AR coated acrylic lens! You can ask him, what he thinks of the build...

On the left is the build with the apperture cap, on the right, with the usual focusing ring.​

Read the next post for the specs of the build​

Temporary Offer Part 2 - Two MaxMass-Dorcy 6x Blu Ray builds​

The HOW...​

There are two reasons this build offers the most stable power you will ever see, without some sort of active cooling:
1. The heatsinking
2. The driver



1. The heatsinking:
I designed the MM-MD/Dorcy heatsink/module after rebuilding two Dorcy "lasers" for TheFixerMan. You may have seen that horror story.. It wasn't pretty....
But from the outside, you would not be able to tell the difference from my builds! But it's the insides, that really matter.. All lasers look pretty from the outside!

I specced the heatsinks for his rebuild before i ever saw a Dorcy in person. But when i finally saw the Dorcy for the first time, i noticed there is a lot of unused extra room in the bottom half of the head. Room, that would seem to have been overlooked until then..


This extra room allowed me to do two things:
- Create an absolutelly massive heatsink, filling up the head entirelly! (look at the pics)
- Create PERFECT heatsink to host contact, using the Dorcy as a massive secondary heatsink! (just like in my Romisen builds)


I always try to make the most out of each build, regardless of the host it uses. I design it from scratch, to make the laser as good as it can possibly be, in that particular host.

But the Dorcy host is unusually massive by itself. In my oppinion, the mass of the host is something, that should never be wasted, regardless of how much or how little it actually is. Afterall, the host is the thing that touches the air. Unless you get the heat from the heatsink into the host, it has no way to leave - it's trapped inside... Heat dissipation into air is slow enough, as it is - air has such a poor thermal conductivity, that it can be used as insulation! If you trap the heat inside, by leaving air between the heatsink and the host, you only make it worse.


If i put the parts on a scale, i get this:
- The Max-Mass Dorcy heatsink/module i designed for my Dorcy weighs 24g... (it's the most massive Dorcy heatsink you can find)
- The Dorcy host itself weighs 52g. This is 52g of aluminum, which can offer an amazing amount of additional heatsinking, but is often not used, or only partially used at best...


By making the heatsink/module fatter at the bottom, it's mass increased A LOT!
But more importantly, it now can not fall through the head anymore! It gets stopped, and pressed against METAL!

Unlike with the classic Dorcy builds, this heatsink/module is not held down by a rubber o-ring, but gets stopped by an inner step in the Dorcy head.
When the body is screwed into the head after the heatsink, the massive head and body grip the heatsink like a vice, creating two important thermal pathways into the host - one at the inner step of the head, and one at the bottom to the Dorcy body. This way the heat flows from the heatsink into the entire Dorcy host!



2. The driver:
I use a high efficiency switching (boost) driver, which creates no heat by itself, and keeps the current rock steady!

The current coming from my driver on an empty battery is only 0.2mA lower than on a full battery, meaning the diode gets the SAME current ALL THE TIME, right until the moment the battery shuts down - the power of the laser is EXAXTLY THE SAME, every time you turn it ON, even on an almost completelly empty battery, the power is still the same as it was on a full battery - it doesn't drop with battery voltage!

When the current is 100% stable, the power of a diode laser depends on one thing only - the temperature. And that is taken care of very well..



The build:
As usual, the entire guts of the laser are contained within the heatsink. That's why i call it a heatsink/module - if you attach a battery to it, it's a laser by itself.. The host is just a pretty battery holder and a secondary heatsink (in this case a big one).....

The driver is soldered to the diode directly, and a soft spring extends down, for the positive battery contact, while the negative contact is provided by the heatsink itself. The design is completelly axial - the heatsink/module can turn as much as it wants, there are no wires to twist or break inside...


At the same time, the battery DOES NOT press against the driver in ANY way.

Sometimes lasers are built in a way, that makes the tailcap spring press the battery against the driver with a lot of force. If the driver is soldered to the diode pins, and supported by nothing else, it can end very badly - the diode pins can not support that much pressure, and can break sometimes, resulting in a diode that is not dead, but can not be used either...
In cases like that, the driver should be supported by something else. Even if it is just epoxied to the AixiZ module.

But i don't like using glue in my lasers. So instead of having the battery press against the driver, the battery is stopped by the contact board in the top of the battery tube (depopulated Dorcy LED driver PCB - which BTW should NOT be used as a laser diode driver!!).

The soft spring, that extends down from my constant current boost driver, only has to touch the middle of the contact board gently, for the positive battery contact. That way, the only force exerted on it is completelly negligible. The driver gets the negative contact through the heatsink, from the host..



I have this strange idea in my head, that product for sale should be reliable. I don't know why... Maybe because i spent the last 11 years designing and building electronic devices at work. Devices which professional customers use 8 hours a day every day for their work, and expect 110% reliability from them, and then think it's my fault when they break a cable...

These experiences are the reason why i make my builds so modular and completelly self contained without any wires anywhere in sight - because wires and cables are always the weakest link (even when they are soldered, altho in some builds, they are not :thinking.


Like all my models, these builds are designed not only for light to come out, but also to withstand heavy use, and abuse on top, without ever breaking. They definitelly won't fall appart from you trying to turn the lens, like some lasers do.... )


I guarantee, that nothing in this laser can EVER break (unless YOU dissasemble the heatsink/module, and do something horribly badly wrong to it - as long as the module is assembled, nothing can happen to it, even if you take it out of the body)
The ONLY thing that can EVER happen to the laser is the diode burning out, if it can't handle the power setting. And the life of the diode depends on one thing, and one thing only - how much power you ask for! (I will give you suggestions for more reliability or more power...)


There are NO DUTY CYCLE RESTRICTIONS for these builds! If we get 400mW Blu Ray diodes one day, and you put one in here, you might have to use a 20-30 minute duty cycle tho... )



The WARRANTY:
So, as usual....
- The builds themselves are covered by a full 1 year warranty - i guarantee that the laser won't break, if it does, i repair it for free (this does NOT include the diode, read below for the diode).
- If you go with my power recommendation, the diode is covered by a 3 month warranty. (after that diode replacement is done at cost of diode, if it should burn out)
- If you ask for more power, and the diode burns out, diode replacement is done at cost of diode.



Other info & extras:
- Battery: The Dorcy obviously works from a CR123 battery. It can be a rechargable Li-Ion, in which case it should be protected, or it can be a primary Lithium, in which case, my driver will suck it down to 2V, and use it to the fullest! A fully charged pack of two CR123 Li-Ions is included, so you can use the laser the moment you get it!

- The Power: You can select the power you want. I will try to keep it reasonable tho. I don't want to make 15 hour lasers (that's why i don't sell 150mW PHRs)! But 6x's are tough diodes, which i am willing to set as high as 210mW IF YOU UNDERSTAND what that means (if you don't, ask...)! The recommendeed power for longevity would be around 170mW, but the 6x's can last surprisingly long even at 200mW! If nothing else, long enough for the replacement diode price to drop...

- Extras: You get a full P/I/V plot with each 6x laser, showing the characteristics of your particular diode, as well as a power vs. time graph, showing the stability of power. The plots are made on my Diode Analyzer connected to a <3% accuracy thermal meter.

- More: You also get a flexible-legs tripod with clamp suitable for holding the laser, with the Dorcy build.

Here are the pics of the MaxMas-Dorcy Heatsink/Module... This (and my driver) is what makes them special...​

P.S. As many of my other ideas, this one was made a reality by DarkHorse, who's work i'm impressed with again and again. :bowdown:
Altho i fear am slowly driving him nuts with all my special requests... :yabbem:​

Re: FS: >110mW PHR, >140mW 4x & >170mW 6x Blu-Rays

My MaxMass Red Dorcy made by Igor is the one on the right kicking out near 300 mW!  
My twin Dorcy Blu-ray also made by Igor, is the one on the far left, I think of Buck Rodgers when I see these Dorcys, a very cool host!  Just imagine the Blu-ray with a 6X diode, (mine is the more modest but very visible PHR @ 135 mW  )  It sure makes me happy and no duty cycle!  ;D  
I will try to get pics soon which show the lasers and the beams!

Re: FS: >110mW PHR, >140mW 4x & >170mW 6x Blu-Rays

I like the small host next to the classic model... It'd be cool to have a upgrade combo small host+6* diode + custum lens don't ya think ? how much for this host ?

Re: FS: >110mW PHR, >140mW 4x & >170mW 6x Blu-Rays

Nice beamshots, Scopeguy!

Is this outside? Was it that foggy?