FS: >110mW PHR, >140mW 4x & >170mW 6x Blu-Rays

Thank you for your pictures Igor, I like them a lot!:yh:
The first "IgorT" lazor exceeding 400mW, in a Romisen host! I think that all members know in what kind of continuous "rush" you work all the day, every day. When I'll receive this gorgeous 418mW (I can't wait :drool, I'll try to add some more pictures....

Curiously_Coherent said:

Hiya Igor,

This isn't related to my "favours" is it? Email's working as far as I can tell, but just in case...

Cheers, CC

Click to expand...

Our emails have been working both ways, as far as i can tell.. We've been talking quite a bit, and i'm sure i mentioned yours in the last mail (or the one before)? :thinking:


That post was about a 6x buyer who requested that specific host converted to constant current. (Your tiny host is a little different..)


Later i saw an answer from him, so all should be good..

Nice work there Igor! :gj:

FrancoRob said:

The first "IgorT" lazor exceeding 400mW, in a Romisen host! I think that all members know in what kind of continuous "rush" you work all the day, every day.

Click to expand...

You mean a rush or a "rush"?

I didn't dare rush with your diode... Even 6x's are too expensive for that..

I usually do or check every safety precautions about four times, just to be sure...

With your lazor, i think i must have discharged the output caps 10 times, then measured them, discharged again, measured again and discharged another four times (even tho the first measurement already confirmed i was just being paranoid)...


It was a rush, yes.. An adrenaline rush..

But once it was done, light came out and everything checked out OK, i just wanted to sit down and look at it, with a big grin on my face... :angel:

Thanks Jay!


You know what else is nice?

For the first time in history i have more than two personal Blu-Rays at once, without any of them being meant just for diode destruction... :angel:
I wonder how long it will last.

Maybe i put the low efficiency diode (175mW@200mA GGW) and a diode of unknown capabilities (100mW CW Nichia) into them just so i'd be forced to make another one, if someone asked for that model... :yabbem:



Oh! Otherwise, i FINALLY found the time today, to type in the P/I data of 61 GGWs, and make slope efficiency comparison plots!

I should prepare a GGW Batch Testing report... :yh:

Igor: sorry, I used the wrong word, but "adrenaline rush" is perfect to explain your efforts to get the best quality, the best results....

IgorT said:

Thanks Jay!


You know what else is nice?

For the first time in history i have more than two personal Blu-Rays at once, without any of them being meant just for diode destruction... :angel:
I wonder how long it will last.

Maybe i put the low efficiency diode (175mW@200mA GGW) and a diode of unknown capabilities (100mW CW Nichia) into them just so i'd be forced to make another one, if someone asked for that model... :yabbem:



Oh! Otherwise, i FINALLY found the time today, to type in the P/I data of 61 GGWs, and make slope efficiency comparison plots!

I should prepare a GGW Batch Testing report... :yh:

Click to expand...

That's a lot of diodes tested!

I've always felt good with 180 to 190mA's. Do your average results reflect somewhere in that range to be the sweet spot?

Just a small preview, to show everyone what i go through, when making 6x lasers...


These are P/I (slope efficiency) plots of 61 of the GGW diodes i have gone through, with my classifications on the right side.

Most of the GGW lasers i made so far are in here, as well as a substantial number of GGW diodes i was unable to use due to their Low or even VERY LOW efficiency (but there is more typing ahead of me still)....

10 "bad" diodes in a group of 61 makes 16.4% of diodes, which each cost me the same as the good or very good ones, but i have to put them aside, cos i know they wouldn't last (or would require a very high current to reach the desired power, and last even less long)...


The data is from my "Diode Notebook", where i write down all the numbers during pre-testing on my Diode Analyzer...
I use the numbers to see which diodes are good and HOW good they are, as well as to calculate what current to set them to, in order to reach the desired power.
So far i was able to reach the desired powers with currents from 185-200mA, by selecting the appropriate diodes.


Interestingly, the diodes i call "Low" or "Very low" have a tendency to die rapidly when set to the same currents, while this doesn't happen with "Normal" or better diodes even at 200mA. That's why I weed the Low efficiency diodes out and use them for experiments, heatsink testing (they create more heat) and other tests...
It's also the reason i think diode efficiency is linked to die imperfections and why I only use Normal or better diodes in lasers i make for others (specific sub-type depending on individual request)....


Anyway, just in case someone is interested in what this looks like - click on the thumbnail or ask for the high resolution version..
I'll prepare a more detailed testing report with more explanations when i have a bit more time...
Probably in a thread of it's own, for others to add to it, if they collected some data.


Now that most of the numbers are finally typed in, i'll also be able to provide individual PIV plots for each GGW 6x laser (every diode that was ever used has a number and a name on it)...



P.S. It's interesting to note how much the "Very low efficiency" diodes really stick out from the rest. There is like a gap between 160-170mW.
While i classify anything between 170 - 180mW @ 200mA as "Low", the "Very low" efficiency diodes all fall below 160mW @ 200mA and form their own distinct group going as low as 138mW @ 200mA in one case (the only GGW showing kinks!)..

Something similar happens with the "Freak" / "Super-Freak" group, where they are again slightly separated from the majority, forming their own group, altho a bit less pronounced than with the "Low" / "Very low" ones.


P.P.S. There are more things to do with the analisys of the results, like separating them by sled versions, but that belongs in a special thread.

Jay: I tell all my buyers they have to understand one simple thing:

Higher current = Shorter life
Lower current = Longer life

I also tell them, that each diode is different, not just in efficiency, but also in "toughness", and that while the above formula always holds true for each individual diode, it does not necessarily mean that another diode of the same characteristics won't be better or worse when set to same currents. Basically, since we are pushing them to their limits, there is always a small risk - what i do, is try to minimize that risk...


I give them my recommendations for longevity or for high power, and then do my best to keep the currents and powers reasonable...

If someone asks for a very high power, i first make sure they understand the potential consequences...
Sometimes someone ask me to select a diode that could reach 220mW @ 200mA and then set it to 190mA, to make it live longer...
Other times i just get a power request, and try to figure out which diode to use so that it will last there.


In the end i tell everyone, that my first GGW diode cost me $350, but i risked it, set it to 200mA, got 193mW and it lasted a year of extreme torture, which would translate to several years of normal pointer use... Their diode costs ~$60USD+ (depending on efficiency), so their risk is much lower than mine was.


This way everyone can make a fully informed decision....
If they don't want too much risk, they ask for lower powers, if they are willing to risk having to send a laser back for diode replacement one day, they are free to ask for higher powers.
If they want more power but still a good life, they ask for high efficiency in order to reach that power at a lower current...
If they mostly just care about visibility, they can ask for a high wavelength, which can often make a much more significant impact on visibility, than raw power alone..


That first GGW of mine is probably why i have this almost supersticious limit of 200mA max in my head... And so far i have to say it's working out fine...


But like i said, i don't just set them all to 200mA.. That is only for when the diode requires that current to reach the desired power.
When it peaks higher than desired during pre-testing, i calculate the slope-efficiency, and then using the result, i calculate from 200mA down, to find the current i need to get the power i am asked to reach.


Another thing i should add is this.... My Pre-Testing setup is one where the diode can easily be put in, and taken out again. There is something holding it in place, and good thermal transfer is ensured. It has a huge heatsink, but the diode is not held in place by friction.

But when that same diode is later put into a laser, and set to the same current, i am used to seeing 2-5mW more than calculated, due to MUCH better heatsinking in a laser, compared to the Pre-Testing setup (this is because the diode is now pressed into the heatsink (or AixiZ in earlier versions), held in place by friction, causing a significantly better thermal transfer out of it - resulting in a couple of °C less in diode temperature)...



This is also the reason everyone always gets a slightly higher power than they ask for... If the laser had the same heatsinking as the pre-testing setup, the calculation could bring me to a specific power with +/- 1mW accuracy, but since the laser has a lower thermal gradient between diode and heatsink, it's always a little more in the end.

Anyway, i have to sleep now, so i'll be answering emails tomorrow.

Had a very busy couple of days behind me...

12X BDR-205 is here !!! Well, soon anyway. $250-$325

Pioneer BDR-205 SATA 3Gbps 12x Blu-ray burner speed of 54MB / s

IgorT said:

This way everyone can make a fully informed decision....
If they don't want too much risk, they ask for lower powers, if they are willing to risk having to send a laser back for diode replacement one day, they are free to ask for higher powers.
If they want more power but still a good life, they ask for high efficiency in order to reach that power at a lower current...
If they mostly just care about visibility, they can ask for a high wavelength, which can often make a much more significant impact on visibility, than raw power alone..

Click to expand...

You are the Man Igor...

Very good of you to offer the choices! The only problem, is that you end up with some diodes that you won't sell. Which is not too good for you my friend... (your wallet)

Great for your reputation and sales though!

jayrob said:

Very good of you to offer the choices! The only problem, is that you end up with some diodes that you won't sell. Which is not too good for you my friend... (your wallet)

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Yes, diodes under "Normal" are the ones i get stuck with.. I calculated this to be 16.4% of the above plotted batch..

And it did hurt my wallet, because i didn't plan for it from the start. If i don't separate diode efficiencies by price, naturally everyone will go for the good ones by default!

10 "useless" GGWs make for $550 USD! However that was a part of the cost of getting to the 51 good or better ones! Unfortunatelly there is no way around it.


But now i explain this to my buyers as well, and that since those diodes would have died much faster, i have to weed them out, take their cost and spread it out over the rest of the diodes - the ones that are good or better are worth that much more...

That's what the GGW laser base price is all about - it guarantees everyone gets at least a good Normal GGW diode in their laser...
Again it can be set to "any" power desired, even above 200mW if pushed, but the current WILL affect it's life.
If the current requested is not too high, every "Normal" or better GGW diode is also covered by a "Birth Defect Warranty" (just in case something were to slip through my Pre-Testing)...


If someone wants more power than that, there are the High efficiency diodes, Freaks and so on - but those have to cost a little more, for the simple reason that they are worth more, not just because they are better, but also because there is less of them in a batch.
And i have to buy a batch with all types to get to the good ones.....

Same goes for high wavelengths - they cost a little extra on top of the base price...


Since there are no random diodes with me, the buyer gets to chose exactly what they want.
They pay a little more, but they know 100% for sure, they won't get a weak diode that peaked at ~175mW (or less) during pre-testing, pushed to 230-240mA, when they ask for a >200mW laser..

That laser wouldn't last very long - even at only 200mA those diodes often die in hours!
But that is exactly what would happen if i was using "random" diodes (next one from a bag), and setting them to whatever current required to reach the desired power - every now and then i'd have to push a diode to bizzare currents to get it to the power i am asked!


Because of this i had to change my diode pricing system. The whole point behind it is, that when i'm out of all diodes and only left with the weak ones, that i still got the money for the entire diode batch back - including the ones that were weak and useless (so i can buy another batch of diodes, where there will again be weak and useless ones)....


The buyer benefits from all this testing and selection, and it takes me a lot of time, so it only makes sense that it costs something...

If someone on the other hand doesn't believe it's worth it, they are free to try a lower efficiency diode at a discount - in the end it'll cost them more than going with a good one from the start, since there is a good chance they'll have to replace it soon (and when they do, they'll probably be asking for a good one).


However, so far when i explained the situation, everyone understood it rather well.
Now that i have a visual representation of this, explaining it will be even easier..




In the end i still get something out of those weaker diodes - data, if nothing else.. The various experiments provide a lot of it.
If i kill a bunch of weak diodes i don't have to feel bad, but i do establish some absolute minimums, when it comes to lifetime, and i know that the better diodes will live longer from experience.. Not to mention that the weak diodes make for good heatsink-testers.... :evil:

It hurts much more, when i have to kill a good diode, but i had two where the windows dislodged during cleaning - they became useless for builds and "volunteered" for the Torture Chamber. :angel:

I'll add the Cycler (life-time) data to the Batch Testing thread as well.


Another thing is.. Except for the "Very low" efficiency diodes, which clearly seem to indicate there is something wrong with them, i think the "Low" ones - those that peaked between 170-180mW @ 200mA and still cling to the main group in the graphs - could still be used as reliable lower power lasers at reduced currents...

They might be able to fill the gap between PHRs and GGWs - set to 140-160mW (depending on their starting efficiency) they should be reliable, and at the same time a lot better than 4x's!


So i'm hoping i'll still be able to use some of them in the end, for medium power / lower cost lasers....

Tech_Junkie said:

12X BDR-205 is here !!! Well, soon anyway. $250-$325

Pioneer BDR-205 SATA 3Gbps 12x Blu-ray burner speed of 54MB / s

Click to expand...

I'd be cautious. We don't know how they reached it, could be by improoving optics instead of selecting a higher power diode..

The BDR-S03 is also an 8x writer from Pioneer, but the diode can't compare to the BDR-203...


Only when multiple manufacturer's models appear can we be sure, that higher power diodes became available to them....


But in the end, someone will have to risk buying and pushing, for us to learn anything new.. Only problem is, due to cost, any real testing is impossible - everyone will want their new expensive 600mW+ laser to live as long as possible. So would i...


For example, while we believe the 203BK to be capable of certain powers, we won't know anything for sure, until many of them die.

IgorT said:

The BDR-S03 is also an 8x writer from Pioneer, but the diode can't compare to the BDR-203...

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In case you missed my email, check out the "review" of the S03. I have updated it with "new" information from 2007!

http://laserpointerforums.com/f52/possible-8x-sled-hightechdealz-42622.html

The sleds we got as S03's are NOT S03's. I know it is shocking, but our Chinese friends lied to us again.

This would probably be a good read BEFORE you test the two I sent you

Peace,
dave

I did just read it Dave, as well as commented. Regardless of that i'm still looking forward to testing the S03 diodes..

But what about that google-translated article, that showed the S03 in detail, did it not mention 8x speed somewhere?
EDIT: Oh, you're saying it's NOT the same thing as described in that article?



In any case, my point was, there is more than one way of reaching a higher recording speed. And the link you posted in that post explains these ways...

That's why each manufacturer's 8x diode will have slightly different characteristics.


But it's true that the S03 was falling short of the expected variances by far! Too far.. At least now we know why..



P.S. They lied to us AGAIN? When did they stop?!? :thinking: