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Old 06-13-2009, 09:10 PM #1649
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Oh, Batch #2 bonus builds (you know who you are - those, who paid and waited) - G-Mail me, subject "Bonus Batch".

I like to keep things organised.. Gmail makes it real easy for me to do so and find important info with two clicks.


P.S. I would like to move ALL laser-related conversations back to G-Mail, so that my business email becomes easier to handle...
If you have ANY kind of deal with me, there is a corresponding G-Mail row, we can talk there, but the above subjects are for "order details" (like the summary we did for batches).



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Old 06-13-2009, 09:47 PM #1650
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Oh, Traveller. You asked me to build you something special. You wanted the first 8x build from me... We can even go deluxe, if i get a host availability answer...
Did you all of a sudden get a source of 8X diodes, or are you going to roll up your sleeves & buy a few optical BRDs...

I asked you to surprise me; I thought I'd give you, the ar-tee-st, some creative room, hehe . But now things have changed and it's got to have a "V3" in it, whatever "it" turns out to be

But speaking of desires, I have four killer lasers and only three killer lenses... . That and I want the professor to come back 'cause LPF isn't the same without him.

I think I said the same about you about four months back... I hope we don't have to wait that long for him to come back...

p.s. go Deluxe...???
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Old 06-13-2009, 11:43 PM #1651
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Thanks Igor, yes I used a dummy load. I understand completely what you're saying. If not using rechargeable batteries the regulator will not be able to produce enough voltage to power the LD after the batteries have been in use for awhile. I'm wondering if I can add one more battery of 1.5v and reset the current with the dummy load. Or is the rechargeable battery situation the only good way to proceed? Thanks for the very useful info. I understand what everyone was saying about you and your wealth of knowledge. ;-)

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Originally Posted by IgorT View Post
Ok, there are a few problems in your statement, and i would like to help...

How do you know your LPC (= open can, right) is at 470mA? Did a dummy load say so?

You said you are using two CR123's in series for 6v's and an LM317 current source. Well, that just won't do. The driver itself swallows 3V and the open can needs more than 3V for 470mA, so you have some V's missing there, buddy..


I don't know why all those instructions for an LM317 say to use 6V. 6V is the minimum, where regulation cuts off. If you want actual constant current, you need your voltage ABOVE that.

Lets say you want a laser that uses an LM317 and stays in regulation over the entire (almost) battery voltage range...

You need two CR123 RECHARGABLES (= Li-Ions), rated at 3.6V. They are 4.2V when full, and 3V (or down to 2.7V) when empty.

This would give you constant current right down till they are almost empty, and your laser would be at the same power (or rather current) every time you turned it on.

If you however use two CR123 primaries (= non-rechargable Lithiums), then your laser might (and i bolded "might" for a reason) be in regulatin when they are completelly fresh, for a few seconds. The diode would get the full current. After that the current would start dropping every time you used the laser. That's not how it's supposed to work.

The idea is, that the diode gets the same current every time you turn the laser on, and not just when the batteries are completelly full.


Unless i completelly misunderstood you and you ARE using Li-Ions, then disregard the above, you're all good.

Otherwise, this can even be a recipie for disaster.

Let's say you set the current with too little voltage. Then you put in fresh batteries and the driver gets enough voltage. You think you set it to one current, but it wasn't getting the voltage needed at that time, so suddenly it jumps to the real setting and kills your diode at power-up.


I must have written this exact same post about a hundred times around various threads of this forum......


Anyway, are you understanding me? Seeing the problem? Or am i misunderstanding you?
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Old 06-14-2009, 05:47 AM #1652
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No, it was a WhatYouSeeIsWhatYouGet thingy.. I just had to select that, and it was all good.


Anyhoo. How is that PHR doing? Still alive?
I never received it Igor. I knew you were going through a pile of stuff so I didn't want to bother you over a favor. I cant believe you remembered. I did asked Glenn but he said he never received it either.
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Old 06-14-2009, 12:33 PM #1653
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Did you all of a sudden get a source of 8X diodes, or are you going to roll up your sleeves & buy a few optical BRDs...
Nope, Franco decided to go the full length, and get an 8x done, by arranging the purchase of a DRIVE, having "someone" partially extract and deliver the diode to me, and then for me to do the rest...


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I asked you to surprise me; I thought I'd give you, the ar-tee-st, some creative room, hehe . But now things have changed and it's got to have a "V3" in it, whatever "it" turns out to be
Well, that's gonna be hard unless it's a Romisen host. It's the only one i have v3's for so far.

But i can have more made for other hosts, as soon as i get a guarantee for their availability. (one week later they can be v3 too).


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But speaking of desires, I have four killer lasers and only three killer lenses... . That and I want the professor to come back 'cause LPF isn't the same without him.
I think i said something about arranging a test-buy for a killer lens? One without splatter, but still a high power increase?

Should have done it a long time ago, obviously people are willing to pay the price, don't know what i was thinking.. I was really concerned about the splatter of the short FL lens and how to explain it. As you know best yourself, you have to see it...

The good news now is, that many people have seen the splatter. And i heard that just like me, many don't like it. That is why my 6x is wearing the medium lens all the time. It's still a kick-ass lens. The power increase is higher than with the disaster lens (= v1, 30 pcs completelly custom made (precision-machined) to specs, resulting in $1k loss )

But it did at least tell me where the "splatter" comes from. And that's something, isn't it?


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I think I said the same about you about four months back... I hope we don't have to wait that long for him to come back...
I'm here to stay. But before i go beserk posting i have a shitload of lazores to make..


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p.s. go Deluxe...???
You were asking about the Tiny. I said we could go Tiny-Deluxe (More expensive higher quality "Tiny" host with a v3 HS/M inside) - designed? Yes.. Made? Not yet... I'm worried about host availability... I could end up with 44 useless Heatsink/Modules, if a host were discontinued. Otherwise, no wonder you're confused about the "Deluxe" part, since i never revealed that host. But it was never turned into a laser before since it can't be done without a v3-type HS/M.

So i need to check future availability FIRST, before i give production of a big batch of heatsink/modules a GO..... But after seeing how well the first batch of v3's came out, i feel comfident, that the other designs will be manufactured to the same perfection.

I mean, did i mention that even the lens-fit is better than with various AixiZ modules? Barelly any wobble? Oh, i didn't.. I haven't even shown them yet..



Anywayz, thanks to Franco also paying for the job with real (= not PayPal) money, i might be able to hold the Tiny-Deluxe HS/M's in my hands one week after i get a straight answer from the Chinese... I say "might" cos there's a lot of bills to pay on my business end, due to what i've just been through. (I now even get to pay taxes on money i didn't make.. Huraay for the tax-mafia )

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Old 06-14-2009, 12:37 PM #1654
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IgorT welcome back. hehehe good timing, i just got back :P
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Old 06-14-2009, 12:58 PM #1655
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Thanks Igor, yes I used a dummy load. I understand completely what you're saying. If not using rechargeable batteries the regulator will not be able to produce enough voltage to power the LD after the batteries have been in use for awhile. I'm wondering if I can add one more battery of 1.5v and reset the current with the dummy load. Or is the rechargeable battery situation the only good way to proceed? Thanks for the very useful info. I understand what everyone was saying about you and your wealth of knowledge. ;-)
Ok, so i did understand your problem correctly... No, i would NEVER recommend adding a different type of battery into a row! That's recipie for disaster. (won't go into details, but the 1.5V would discharge first and then the other two would charge it in reverse!!! = "kabooom")

I mean, you CAN do it for a short time (like just to check the ACTUAL current setting for a few seconds) without setting your house on fire, but don't tell anyone i said so.

I'm afraid the only permanent solution is getting CR123 rechargables. They are cheap on DX, as are the chargers.



Taking this part out, cos it got slightly incorrectly understood:
Quote:
Originally Posted by millirad View Post
the regulator will not be able to produce enough voltage to power the LD after the batteries have been in use for awhile.
The problem is that the regulator (= LM317 chip) won't GET enough voltage to regulate the current. Of course it regulates the current by making small voltage adjustments, so you are correct in saying that it won't be able to produce enough voltage. Voltage is what makes current flow if there is something to flow through. But the problem is that it doesn't even get enough to do anything much... (an underpowered driver starts acting almost (but not quite) like just a resistor).

What i wanted to say was, that linear drivers, like the 317 do the regulation somehow like this:
- You provide the driver with ample voltage (more than needed!)
- The regulator will "destroy" all the voltage (well actually power, but let's not get into so many details) that is not needed (= convert it to heat) and only give the load enough voltage for the precise current you set to flow through it. So it ALWAYS needs too much voltage coming into the system, you see. Basically, all linear drivers regulate the current by removing whatever is not needed and leaving just enough for the set current to flow through the load.


That's why all those instructions saying "6V" don't make sense. They should say ">6V" for reds" and ">9V" for blu's.

I mean especially for an open can at the current you say, 6V wouldn't regulate even for a second (unless you get lucky with the 317, and it's way off specs). The only reason your laser with primary batteries would ever regulate is, that batteries always have more voltage than they are rated for, when they are full. The 3V CR123's have more than 3V when full. But of course it immediatelly sags under load. Oh man, there we go again, i need to stop typing.

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Old 06-14-2009, 01:00 PM #1656
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I never received it Igor. I knew you were going through a pile of stuff so I didn't want to bother you over a favor. I cant believe you remembered. I did asked Glenn but he said he never received it either.
What? Oh crap. Let me check what happened here. Oh man, i'm so sorry.

I'll send you another diode if you want.


P.S. And of course i remember. Why wouldn't i? I'm just confused a bit right now..

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Old 06-14-2009, 02:56 PM #1657
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Oh my, i just now saw what a mess my first page is, due to the forum change!

It seems to interpret text sizes dramatically different. This'll take me a day to fix!

Never mind all the links...


EDIT: Ok, i think i fixed at least most of the eye offending stuff. But the pictures.... I guess i don't have a way to avoid learning how to embed pics into posts anymore...

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Old 06-14-2009, 03:11 PM #1658
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Nope, Franco decided to go the full length...
More power to him So what about your torture subject...? Are you going to harvest your own? I noted the Pioneer's available in the EU for €200 and the Sony for around €300. As for Austria, there were very few hits. Looks like it will be a while before the 8X really hits mainstream and even longer before someone finds a source of reject sleds...

So for now, it's a project limited to only the most economically sound individuals...



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...the disaster lens (= v1, 30 pcs completely custom made (precision-machined) to specs, resulting in $1k loss...
30...? You had to buy 30? Was it a minimum production limit? Well that's quite a costly experiment, I have to say... Once you manage to get your Lens GB up & running again, you will hopefully be able to recover some of that. I shelled out ~$60 for each of my killer lenses so if you charge us $35 instead of $30 I don't think anyone's going to complain... R&D is always seen as overhead by the stakeholders but w/o R&D there would be no product...



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...what a mess my first page is... This'll take me a day to fix!
Tell me about it - I updated five reviews... with links, bold text and unidentified smileys as well as non-std characters (", &, etc.)
On the bright side, the "old" forum is still up & running, so links are not broken, they just point to the old forum...
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Old 06-14-2009, 03:43 PM #1659
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More power to him So what about your torture subject...? Are you going to harvest your own? I noted the Pioneer's available in the EU for €200 and the Sony for around €300. As for Austria, there were very few hits.

So for now, it's a project limited to only the most economically sound individuals...
Yeah, but i think i'm going to procure the diode from US sources, if it turns out to be cheaper..

If on the other hand the US hassle + shipping ends up costing more than what you found "locally", then i might buy from Austria. But then there is the shipping again... I want to reduce charges for Franco, so there is more leftover money to refund him from the project. Maybe online buy to you - you ship to me, if they have prohibitive Austria to Slovenia shipping charges?



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30...? You had to buy 30? Was it a minimum production limit? Well that's quite a costly experiment, I have to say... Once you manage to get your Lens GB up & running again, you will hopefully be able to recover some of that. I shelled out ~$60 for each of my killer lenses so if you charge us $35 instead of $30 I don't think anyone's going to complain... R&D is always seen as overhead by the stakeholders but w/o R&D there would be no product...
Not buy. In my first attempt i had them MADE TO SPECS, praying for the best. For them to even consider precision-machining lenses for me, i had to order 30, yes, and do so through my company...

Then i got them, tested them and then i almost cried...

Until two days ago, when they thaught me where the "splatter" comes from. I got two lessons from them. $500 each, i guess..

Oh, and a bunch of very pretty, and very useless lenses... Anyone want to buy one? I mean, they have almost a historical value..



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Originally Posted by Traveller View Post
Tell me about it - I updated five reviews... with links, bold text and unidentified smileys as well as non-std characters (", &, etc.)
On the bright side, the "old" forum is still up & running, so links are not broken, they just point to the old forum...
The old forum is still up and running?!? Cos the links from my favorites don't work...


But man, it's bothersome, that every old post, where i wrote "....." is messed up! And i use "...." a lot! I almost think that every single one of my thousands of posts might have these symbols..



Quote:
Originally Posted by Traveller View Post
Looks like it will be a while before the 8X really hits mainstream and even longer before someone finds a source of reject sleds...
You mean, before our Chinese friends find someone, who works inside those factories and **** him to **** the ***** just a little bit, so they fail the final testing?

Woops, i had to swear i wouldn't say anything about.... Damn, i can't even say WHAT i can't say anything about...

Let's just leave it at the fact, that our Chinese friends can be very creative, when it comes to creating reject sleds. Wait, did i say "creating"? I meant procuring!


Damn, i don't know what i'm babbling about, don't take anything i said in the last few sentences too seriously. Maybe i was just kidding?

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Old 06-14-2009, 03:59 PM #1660
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Her Igor, there are some other diodes that might be good to test, if you have the time. First is a 150mW CW / 280mW pulsed diode, that is cheaper than a 6x, comes with a datasheet, and doesn't need to be extracted. It is here:
http: //www.laser surplusparts.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_ id=90
Take the space out after the http:, and after laser

Also coming from that site, is a 200mW CW / 400mW pulsed diode for $68/ It hasn't been released yet due to the supplier being out of stock. This is a 408nm diode, so it might be brighter than others
Datasheet is here:
http://www.laser enthusiast.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1517&d=1243966572

Edit: f'in blocks. right, get rid of the gap after laser
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Old 06-14-2009, 04:23 PM #1661
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Thanks for the potentially useful links. I am surprised about the fact that no one has tried them yet?

Altho i have to say, that i am more than a little suspicious, but 150mW Nichia could be real. And i did go for the 100mW Nichia, when someone pointed it out to me (my testing prooved it real), so why not test this! If it's as real as the 100mW Nichia from Susie, this thing could be better AND a tiny bit cheaper than a 6x! In fact, it could be the same as an 8x! Seriously.. I need to buy one ASAP.


The 200mW CW diode sounds funky. Otherwise, don't let the 408nm confuse you. It's all the same. 408nm is actually the center wavelength, the average wavelength of 405nm diodes.

Lenses made specifically for blu-rays have a coating centered at 408nm for example....



EDIT: Ok, please take a look at that datasheet.. It's a Multi-mode diode. Not what we want. We want single mode..... Multimode has BAAAD fast axis! You need a Fast Axis Correction lens for those... Preferably mounted INSIDE the can by the manufacturer.. Otherwise it won't work in regular modules, cos you need FAC, and you don't have room for a FAC lens in a regular module... Without it, it's impossible to get a spot.


EDIT EDIT: Oh, and IF i have the time? I don't have the time, but i continuously have to test rows after rows of 6x diodes, before sorting them into groups and assigning them to buyers, depending on their needs and wants. So if instead i were to test a new (actually new, like the 100mW Nichia was) diode, that would be relaxation in comparison, even tho i'd do it in way higher resolution.... (for standard 6x pre-testing i have a low resolution protocol, cos in most cases they don't have kinks, but if one did, the low-res protocol would still show it, for me to test in more detail - only ever found ONE 6x with something resembling a kink).

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Old 06-14-2009, 06:01 PM #1662
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Hmm, the "150mW Nichia" can only be ordered to Slovenia with USPS Express, and i don't want to pay that for what could be a dud..

I'll need someone from US to buy this diode for me and send with some other stuff...




EDIT: Woohoo, i have just arranged the testing of this diode, and i'm getting all excited!
EDIT2: Scratch that double shipping, i'm so excited, i'm getting it USPS Expressed directly to me..

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Old 06-14-2009, 08:16 PM #1663
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I apologize for off-topic post guys,but I really need to thank IgorT here in public.Awhile ago,he asked me if I could help him,to get v#3 modules from the shop and to return the favor,he offered to build me a special 6xBluRay with v#3 module.
Few days later,he called me and said "if you want I can send you my personal 260mW BR to play with while you wait for your laser." Next day laser was in my hands.Boy,I couldn't wait for sun to go down,so that I could test this beast.I didn't want to play with it indors,because 260mW is seriuos $hit and I quickly get headache and sore eyes if I use BR indoors too much.
Anyways,let me tell you a little bit about this BR laser.It's a v#1 module in Rominsen host with 6x BR diode set to 230mW(260mW after lens) and it also has a custom built (medium) glass lens which can be focused very easily.This lens produces a very tight and round beam with almost no splatter or any other undesired effects.However,I suspect that this BR laser did see his share of use/abuse,because threads are a bit worn out and focus ring has a little play,but nothing major.

So,thank you Igor for lending me your personal laser and to "ease my pain" while I wait for my laser...YOU ROCK!!!
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Old 06-14-2009, 09:14 PM #1664
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Well, you did help me pay for the v3's with your order, i thought you deserve a little playing around while you wait (even if it hurts me to be without any 405nm). Everyone in Batch #3 will now get an even better laser thanks to your help.


I am surprised you noticed the (ab)use marks on it, good eyes, but you are correct. You have no idea what this laser has been through already! All the heatsink testing and lens testing i did with it, not to mention accidentally leaving it ON till the battery died (3 hours straight)... This diode is the reason i am comfortable setting 6x's to high powers.... If this diode lasted this long in MY hands, it would have lasted 5-10 years in average user's hands, even if it dies the next time you turn it ON!

Otherwise, i think it's quite a bit less than 230 with plastic lens, but i can't remember the exact number, it's been too long since i did the last comparisons i think it's closer to 213 with plastics, than 230... I think the current is 236mA. Yeah, that's it... EDIT: I looked at the PIV plot of my personal 6x and the power after plastics is 213mW @ 236mA, then 260 after medium custom lens...


You know what the funny thing is? I set it to such a high current, in order to make it die. I wanted it to die, to see where the breaking point is. But this tough bastard of a diode just won't!

Anyway, enjoy it while you have it, your own will be ready very soon, and it'll be even better!



Which reminds me, i really need to post the pics of the v3 beauties! Just need to do some sorting through for the best of the bunch...

Last edited by IgorT; 06-14-2009 at 11:44 PM.
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