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Old 08-22-2009, 04:20 PM #1
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Default Resolving the 8X BDR sled mess

Before the whole subject gets out of hand (and before too many others waste good money) I want to see what opinions everyone has regarding the BDR-S03 sleds.

As we are seeing, they are generally NOT working for our intended application, which is building lasers. And unfortunately, there are quite a few of us with considerable money tied up in this whole situation, from dissapointed sled buyers to (gulp) people who have invested in large numbers of these for resale and/or profit. Unfortunately, the remedy to this problem may not be so easy to ascertain, and this is why I'm posting MY opinion and would like to hear what you all think regarding a solution.

In the business world, liability for components extends only to the components intended application - if you buy a smog pump from an auto parts store to make a low-cost compressor to run a breeding room for tropical fish (which we've all done, right?) the liability to anyone except the end consumer ends the second you take it out of the box and start modifying it for YOUR application (which again, isn't the intended use for that part). In this case, however, the line blurs, as none of us are using these sleds to repair faulty 8X Blu-Ray burners, but the sleds are being sold and marketed to us as suitable for use in building burning lasers (see where I'm going with this?)...

My feeling, from a business standpoint, is that the liability for these sleds should lie with the reseller who has stated (in some cases) or implied (in other cases) that these sleds are suitable for use in the building of BR lasers. As to their remedy with their supplier, that's another story on a whole new level, and really shouldn't affect us, the end consumers.

Face it - these sleds are QC rejects, as all the sleds of any style available to us have been. Let's assume the PHR and 6X sleds failed QC as a rule of thumb due to alignment or optical abberations, well then the end result would be (as it has so far proven) that the majority of these sleds are truly suitable for OUR application, building lasers. Now, just for fun, let's assume this first run of available 8X QC rejects have failed QC due to diode troubles, inconsistancies, and/or failures... Well, that would substantiate the prevailing opinion, which is that most of these sleds are NOT suitable for our intended application, therefore whomever has taken our money for them knowing the intended use ison the hook for the liability, and should promptly work it out with us as customers.

(Not to knock anyone who has worked so hard to be able to offer us these sleds, however some of the sellers have advertised specific claims as to their suitability, and should, as businessmen, stand behind what they sell...)

IMHO, (and not to discriminate), the GB sleds should be handled between the end buyers, the reseller, and the supplier - if the middleman is unable to get any satisfaction from the original supplier, then the liability (and losses) should be shared equally by all involved (remember, this was a GB for sleds, and no direct claim was made regarding outputs, etc other than what was posted here by other members who had tested these similar diodes).

In the case of sleds bought through resellers, websites, etc however - the site selling the sleds made very specific claims as to their suitability for use in our application (including the collimation and republishing of varied test data from this site to substantiate their claims regarding the product) and in this case, full refunds are likely due and then it's up to the seller to track down satisfaction with THEIR supplier. Part of the beauty of retail is the protection the end consumer has regarding the product (and the liability costs are part of what justifies the retailers profit margin) - And in this case, I believe that protection applies to the end purchasers who bought items that turned out (as a majority) completely UNSUITABLE for use in our application.

To sum, I feel the GB needs to be worked out based on what the organizer can work out with their supplier, the sleds that were purchased from a "storefront website" should be refunded.

Let the opinions fly, guys and gals!


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Old 08-22-2009, 05:37 PM #2
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Default Re: Resolving the 8X BDR sled mess

i agree completely. while the sleds sold at a store should be refunded, the sleds bought in the GB (like mine) should have no bearing on the middle-man (ndrew2505) as he was just another customer who was nice enough to include people on the purchase.

while i think drew would be responsible for any faulty sleds he sold at modwerx, i donot in any way feel he is responsible for any sleds from the group buy, including the ones he harvested since we know they were faulty before they were harvested.

..basicly i just wanted to make my stance clear about drew not being responsible for the GB sleds, although i do think he should contact the supplier about a possible resolution....
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Old 08-22-2009, 06:04 PM #3
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Default Re: Resolving the 8X BDR sled mess

I have a suggestion. Why don't we try to put these reject sleds in the actual 8X burners that use them? That way we can see if they are rejects or not, or if the LDs are DOA.
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Old 08-22-2009, 06:22 PM #4
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Default Re: Resolving the 8X BDR sled mess

couldnt agree more. got my GB sled today and had it running while ramping it up to 300mA, but as soon as i rewired it through he neutral case pin it LED'd.


this diode sucks though. If we cant figure out how to run it properly we need to stop promoting it.
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Old 08-22-2009, 07:10 PM #5
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Default Re: Resolving the 8X BDR sled mess

Quote:
I have a suggestion. Why don't we try to put these reject sleds in the actual 8X burners that use them? That way we can see if they are rejects or not, or if the LDs are DOA

I mentioned this in another thread as a possibility - which as of now (to my knowledge) noone has tried... Although it seems that quite a lot of anything else tried has been a failure, so I can't see too much potential for these to work correctly in a drive (keep in mind these are likely QC rejects or they'd be in a drive righ now instead of burned out on our desks).
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Old 08-23-2009, 01:45 AM #6
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Default Re: Resolving the 8X BDR sled mess

From the original review:
The results from Kendall's initial testing of the diode were different than my results. We need some brave soul(s) to "pony up" and take the chance to test a couple more to make sure that I didn’t get a “freak” but it looks like an 8X to me.

We also need someone to test it with a higher power driver to see if the problems at the end of my test were an artifact of driver problems.

*************************************************

Originally Posted by jayrob
But we do need more testing, of course we all hope Kendall got what we want, but I'm just remembering what happened with the SF-AW210 sleds...
Jay

Yep. It's a lot like gambling --

Never bet what you cannot afford to loose

Peace,
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*************************************************

From IgorT:
I'd think so too, but they are already being sold as 8x Writer sleds...
Do we have ANY confirmation that they are anything of that kind?
Where is the info coming from?
I mean, i'm just wondering. Remember what happened when we bought 4x's as 6x's.
One good graph is not proof of anything yet, even if it does look promissing!
However i'll probably get some for testing anyway.

*************************************************

Also from IgorT:
Oh, i only just noticed this now. I think some 8x's have been plotted higher than 400mA, right? Well, at least they have been set higher, and they don't pop instantly.

Has anyone tried doing the same with one of these?

I mean, the graph looks lovelly, and very promissing, and i'd love to believe these are the real deal, but i do think we should do more testing, before declaring them to be same as 8x's, and buying multiple at this price....

**************************************************

From Meatball:
By glancing at the current chart... I have to say... I can't confidently believe that we are working with only one 8X diode so far.. either they are all manufactured with lower precision than we are used to, or we are working with at least two different diodes... the difference between Intro74s outputs and Kendalls is just too great in my opinion.

I think we ought to treat Kendall's diodes as something different than what many others already have.

But I can't say that definitively.. we'll just need to get more of them tested before we can say much more.

************************************************

Typed for this thread:

If anyone thought that they were getting anything other than an unproven diode, they have not been reading the thread. Sometimes new sleds prove to be good. Sometimes new sleds turnout to be bad. Until the sled is tested by multiple people successfully, anyone purchasing one is part of the testing.

Sometimes, when we buy "experimental" sleds, we get bit in the butt. None of the people who are willing to test diodes has said that these are the real deal and that we should get all they have. You bought a diode that has not yet been proven. You became part of the experiment.

If you want guarantees, wait until someone knowledgable is willing to guarantee them. If you buy an unproven product, you pays your money and you takes your chances.

Peace,
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Old 08-23-2009, 04:46 AM #7
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Default Re: Resolving the 8X BDR sled mess

well said Dave, well said.

not to mention that is a hell of a summary.
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Old 08-23-2009, 07:53 AM #8
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Default Re: Resolving the 8X BDR sled mess

Hmmm...... I didn't know the BDR sled wasn't living up to 8x expectations until now. Thanks for enlightening the rest of us.
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Old 08-23-2009, 01:50 PM #9
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Default Re: Resolving the 8X BDR sled mess

This is news to me as well. I thought the BDR-S03 sled was the same as the sled in the BDR-203 burner? Appearently not as the diode I harvested from the BDR-203 is still blasting away at 451mw for a while now.
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Old 08-23-2009, 02:44 PM #10
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Default Re: Resolving the 8X BDR sled mess

Just what dave said
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Old 08-23-2009, 02:59 PM #11
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Default Re: Resolving the 8X BDR sled mess

Omg, I though to buy it, after that propably I would kill myself if the diode dies : /

Thanks for this thread.
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Old 08-23-2009, 04:09 PM #12
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Default Re: Resolving the 8X BDR sled mess

Quote:
Originally Posted by .3lite View Post
Omg, I though to buy it, after that propably I would kill myself if the diode dies : /

Thanks for this thread.
ha. thanks for your support.
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Old 08-23-2009, 09:37 PM #13
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Default Re: Resolving the 8X BDR sled mess

I'm not disagreeing with Dave at all, I just wanted to open up a dialogue for those who may be somewhat disappointed with the substantial failure rates of these diodes. With the failure rate approaching 100%, there are bound to be more than a few less-than-satisfied "experimenters".

With any luck, perhaps the initial resellers will step "up to bat" and at least attempt to recoup both their own and their customers money, as this really has become a mess for more than a few people ....

Peronally, I just ordered a Pioneer drive to be able to complete the project, and have just figured that if the sellers can work with those who were sold questionable diodes, that will be a nice bonus.
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Old 08-23-2009, 09:43 PM #14
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Default Re: Resolving the 8X BDR sled mess

To me all sleds are "questionable" no matter if they are $10 or $110. The only way to almost assure you get a working diode is to buy the whole drive.

I have had many a bad PHR sled so I quit buying them. I only buy the whole drives from now on. I have not had one problem with a diode from a new drive (yet).
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Old 08-23-2009, 10:23 PM #15
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Default Re: Resolving the 8X BDR sled mess

Very interesting, thanks for the update Sportcoupe...


Quote:
Originally Posted by sportcoupe View Post
To me all sleds are "questionable" no matter if they are $10 or $110. The only way to almost assure you get a working diode is to buy the whole drive.

I have had many a bad PHR sled so I quit buying them. I only buy the whole drives from now on. I have not had one problem with a diode from a new drive (yet).
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Old 08-24-2009, 01:50 PM #16
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Default Re: Resolving the 8X BDR sled mess

I for one have never out of at least 30 had a bad PHR diode from the sled.
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