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Old 08-24-2009, 02:21 PM #17
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Default Re: Resolving the 8X BDR sled mess

I think i will Put a Paragraph summarizing this in my website in the BDR-S03 description.

Your all right, we need to let people know that there is a substancial risk, and performance is highly untested "so to speak"

But i will still sell them, But every warning and precaution will be mentioned beforehand. so if they feel comfortable buying it, and they are 100% informed, wouldnt it be ok to sell it, but state BLATANTLY that it doesnt perform like a 203, and should be run at a much lower current.

Because i have 3 8x S03 lasers running at 290mA..

Let me know what ya think. I dont see a need to remove them from the site though

Tyler - Dark Lasers


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Old 08-24-2009, 02:32 PM #18
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Default Re: Resolving the 8X BDR sled mess

Quote:
Originally Posted by jander6442 View Post
I for one have never out of at least 30 had a bad PHR diode from the sled.

me neither..

I will say that as the Chinese realize more and more that there are people who will buy their QC rejects for the laser, the more likely it will be that one or two of the sled suppliers will pass off crap that they know to be bad (in terms of laser diodes) to us since we will pay between $75-100 per 8x sled.. They're not always the most honest businesspeople, those Chinese, and we don't have any real recourse to help us after being ripped off by someone in China. Their legal system is not anything like here, and to actually fight a legal battle with someone in China would be a ridiculous and expensive pain, so they could outright keep the money and give us nothing and there's squat we can do unless paypal (or similar) was used for the money transfer. Sure, we could smear their name all over the forums, but that really would have no effect on a sled supplier whose business with laser hobbyists is but a tiny part of their market. It wouldn't be nearly as big of a deal if these were PHR sleds, but they're not.
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Old 08-24-2009, 03:02 PM #19
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Question Re: Resolving the 8X BDR sled mess

Uh, well, sorry for post this one, i know someone probably will hate me for say this ..... but perhaps none of you take in consideration that, as the producers says, both the sleds CAN be 8X burners, and that all the ones that have got the previous, better, "203" types, maybe have got just overspec diodes used as 8X just drived less than the specs .....

I try to explain what i mean ..... basicaly, i see that this polemic is based on the fact that, apparently, "news S03 8X" diodes appears not to be 8X, cause they die before (or more easy) the "old 203" ones, right ? ..... but, honestly, without any producers specification tables, who can say that the ones that all we call 8X, are just more powerful diodes (like, 10X), just used as 8X underdriving them ? ..... or just, the first 8X was mounting them, cause with these optics and drivers, they was needed in this form, and now, maybe with the improvement of lenses, or driving, or maybe just burning protocol, they can use some different, and probably cheap, units ? .... or, just, someone discovered that the new type of diodes can also be produced with less accuracy / more fail tolerance, staying in the 8X standards, and in cheap way, so they switched producer ?

My personal idea is that they are still "8X burners", just, the quality of the used diodes, for some reason, is changed, and unfortunately for us, apparently changed in worse ..... Also cause, we have to admit this , in making burning lasers, none of the diodes that we use is used inside their specific values

And if this is the case, i personally don't see any way for "solve" the problem ..... selling them as 6X ? ..... but this way, the ones that have them in stock, loose money ..... not buy "S03" sleds and diodes ? ..... but how you can be sure that a seller don't ship you a S03 instead a 203, when you're buying something through internet from the other part of the world ? (and, be clear, i'm NOT speaking about well known sellers that are also members here, it's a generalized question) ..... like, when you see "150mW pointers" or "150mW BR diodes in aixiz modules" in ebay and similar, when all we knows that they are just PHR ones ?
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Old 08-24-2009, 03:23 PM #20
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Default Re: Resolving the 8X BDR sled mess

If you want a real prime stock 8X burner Diode you will need to buy one of these...

Canadian Prices: Pioneer - Pioneer BDR-203BK Internal Blu-ray Burner SATA 4MB Cache - Black - BDR203BKS

I look at it this way....
If you were buying replacement sleds for the BDR-203BK and the diode was
defective... then Yes... the seller is responsible... the sled would not work even
if used in it's intended way... (granted it is hard to return a Replacement Sled
with the LD harvested)..

But if you are buying defective/reject sleds... then if the LD was dead you got
what you paid for... a defective sled...
When the Chinese sell their defective/reject sleds it could be due to the Optics..
Electronics.. Mechanics.. dead Diode or any other reason. You may just be the
lucky gut that got the Diode Defect...

If the seller of the defective sled says the diode is usable (we don't know how
many hours this sled was used) then the seller is responsible if it is DOA...

Like Dave said... we are Hobyist/Experimenters and we get good prices for our
experimental surplus parts... There is a price attached to those cheap surplus
parts.. and that is "no guarantee that they all are functional"...

"We rolls the dice" and most of the time "we wins the LD"...

Jerry
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Old 08-24-2009, 03:32 PM #21
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Default Re: Resolving the 8X BDR sled mess

Nicely said jerry -you and Dave hit in on the head you roll the dice and somtimes you crap out boy would I have been a pissed off person if i had recieved 3 bad sleds at over a hundred each yikes
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Old 08-24-2009, 04:10 PM #22
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Default Re: Resolving the 8X BDR sled mess

Hi,
Just a small point here, regarding dead PHR sleds:
I believe that the reasons PHRs were so cheap, and that so many were available is that these were due to be manufactured into HD-DVD drives, but production was stopped, and so thousands of working-condition sleds were released into the market. I don't know anything about LPC-815s, but I would guess that a similar thing happened with them. Therefore, LPCs and PHRs should work "out of the box" but any other diodes carry a higher risk. I remember the SF-AW210s (and indeed still have one in working order!) - and the benefit was worth the risk to me. If it isn't, don't buy until they've been tested further. I'd hope that the buyers could get help from the seller, but I'm not holding my breath.
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Old 08-24-2009, 05:05 PM #23
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Default Re: Resolving the 8X BDR sled mess

Uh, about PHR ones, maybe yes ..... last time i ordered 10, i received them packed from producer, sealed, in antistatic and bubble wraps and boxes ..... i doubt they sell you defective units sealed and packed as new spare parts.

Instead, the last ggw and sf210 i got, had clearly optical defects (quadrature revealer unglued one, and a lens chipped inside the other), so probably they are really all QC rejects, and i think that probably also the 8X ones are the same, i mean non-working units.



Edit: and about what lasersbee say ..... well, here pioneer bdr drivers are still 220 euro (that means more or less 300 $ ), so, i think i pass for now, waiting they become a bit more affordable (like 6X, or PHR, maybe ? ..... who know ? ..... ok, ok, i'm a dreamer, i know )

oh, btw, BK just means black, referred to the front color, i never understood why someone sell the sleds as "203" and "203BK" as different articles, LOL
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Old 08-24-2009, 06:51 PM #24
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Default Re: Resolving the 8X BDR sled mess

We have to remember also that the PHR was intended for a game box on which a person/persons may play for hours on end... then watch a movie on after, so these would have to be somewhat hardy to stand the abuse of non-stop gaming.
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Old 08-25-2009, 12:58 AM #25
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Default Re: Resolving the 8X BDR sled mess

they were discontinued they were hd dvd correct, the winning type was blu-ray same diode different format "correct"

and a lot of the sleds i purchased were brand new too
never used 100% new only because they were discontinued
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Old 08-25-2009, 04:28 AM #26
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Default Re: Resolving the 8X BDR sled mess

Quote:
Originally Posted by jander6442 View Post
We have to remember also that the PHR was intended for a game box on which a person/persons may play for hours on end... then watch a movie on after, so these would have to be somewhat hardy to stand the abuse of non-stop gaming.
But the diode would be "pulsed" in that situation, since it won't be reading the whole time. The bluray disc will be cached on the console's hardware. Same reason you can play a PS2 level and take the DVD out.
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Old 08-25-2009, 04:33 AM #27
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Default Re: Resolving the 8X BDR sled mess

yeah i've easily gone through over 100 phr sleds, and i don't think i've ever gotten a diode that i knew for sure was DOA...usually it if LED'd right off the bat...i almost always expected it due to a "slip" or some accident during harvesting or installing.
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Old 08-25-2009, 07:49 PM #28
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Default Re: Resolving the 8X BDR sled mess

Hey Niko...

I would think that a Laser used for reading would be CW while it was on a read cycle...
The Laser light would then reflect of the track and the reflected Pulsed info (1s and 0s)
would be read by an optical pickup...
To have a reader Laser pulsed would only introduce extra 1s and 0s where there
were none...
Does that make sense...

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Old 08-25-2009, 09:06 PM #29
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Default Re: Resolving the 8X BDR sled mess

jerry:

i thought about that too (in the "other" thread), if a reader would pulse. i agree, it probably is cw. watching my dvd-reader read a dvd with cover off it looks to be cw. of course it would look cw too if its pulsed fast enough without additional "breaks"..

its really time someone hooks tiny wires to a working drive and measures stuff with an oszi, not?

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Old 08-25-2009, 09:11 PM #30
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Default Re: Resolving the 8X BDR sled mess

As long as the LD was pulsed at a much higher frequency than the
data bits could being read... it could be pulsed... like we do with
modulated IR remote controls..

Jerry
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Old 08-26-2009, 12:17 AM #31
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Default Re: Resolving the 8X BDR sled mess

as far as i see it there is nothing to "resolve". whether it be a retail chain or an individual seller, no one replaces stuff thats been torn apart. thats like buying a shirt and cutting a piece out to use for a tablecloth and when you realize its not the right size you try to return it... just b/c your unhappy with a sale/purchase doesnt mean you have to go around acting like your getting everyone in an uproar over something thats already been torn apart..

p.s. if your sled is still in one piece then maybe you should return it. otherwise take a loss like so many others have(myself included)
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Old 08-26-2009, 02:22 AM #32
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Default Re: Resolving the 8X BDR sled mess

Quote:
Originally Posted by lasersbee View Post
Hey Niko...

I would think that a Laser used for reading would be CW while it was on a read cycle...
The Laser light would then reflect of the track and the reflected Pulsed info (1s and 0s)
would be read by an optical pickup...
To have a reader Laser pulsed would only introduce extra 1s and 0s where there
were none...
Does that make sense...

Jerry
Oops! Sorry, I should've thought twice about that, I answered regarding consoles READING while talking about writing discs, sorry. Yes, when reading the diode is driven constantly to reflect light (1/0).
I was mistaken with writing too, it'd appear as if it were pulsed but it's a pulsing CW, since the pulses are not of the same period between clusters that are being written.

Sorry, my bad.
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