Ok this has gone too far - JLSE/WANNABURN

First, I have to ask forgivness for my english, I'm not a native speaker, I can read, I can talk, but my written english is not clear enough.

And second, I must say I tried to mantain this in private, first direct with the person in question and then with trusted members AND a moderator, indicated by more than one trusted member. I tried NOT to open a public post about it because I HATE to bring this kind of thing to public, but unfortunately I'm out of options right now.

What happened/ is happening:

On October, 08, 2011 I buyed from Wannaburn/JLSE a 3.2W 445nm Laser, the one he showed some videos and pictures. I paid him US$600,00 upfront of a 1200 + shipping total.

I asked him how long it would take to make the laser and he told me "at least 2 weeks" and I didn't mind, I'm a very pacient girl (yes, I'm a woman, not a guy). After a month I sent him a PM and he told me to wait a little longer because he was in another project, and again I waited. Is this meantime we talked about some customizations on the laser.

After that I sent him another PM and he told me he was almost finishing the laser and he would contact me soon, that didn't happened. Then things got strange because he says I didn't sent him any PM or e-mail, but I did sent him e-mails for sure and I have the proof (that I already sent to a VERY trusted member here) that I sent at least 3 e-mails without ANY response. And if he told me that the laser was ALMOST READY, I would expect a contact from the seller...

So I asked for some members help and they posted at the Veterans forum, that I DON'T have access, they did discuss if I had sent or not the e-mails, and I did a print screen of 3 e-mails with dates and everything. No one posted these e-mails because I asked not to. Wannaburn/JLSE said at this semi-private forum that he would contact me and settle the situation, he didn't contact me and he didn't pay me.

In the two last PMs Wannaburn/JLSE, I was the one that contacted him first, the LAST communication that was HIS iniciative was eariler in december 2011, after that for him to send me anything I had to send him a PM/e-mail.

And then I asked for my money back, I just didn't the laser anymore.

He told me a month a half ago that he would pay me when he had the money, after that I sent him a PM almost a month ago telling him that he could buy some itens for me in USA and send me to my country, this way removing the value from the US$600,00 I paid him. This PM (and all others for that matter) can be checked at my private messages inbox/outbox. But this PM wasn't answered and it was the last communication I had from him.

I already spent a lot of money in this hobby, I think that just with members of this forum I spend US$4000-5000,00. NEVER had any problem. I'm a VERY patient person, but almost 9 months is just too much, its is sad get to this point where I'm here writing this in public but I can't wait forever for this money. I know Wannaburn /JSLE is a trusted member and I do believe he was going trought some problems, but I paid for something that I didn't receive and now I'm ONLY asking my money back. Nothing more.

More than a year ago, I bought from Flaminpyro a host, that wasn't cheap, and the host was lost in mail from china to flaminpyro and after months we split the prejudice (don't know the exact word) and it was ok. But the communication was good and when I asked for the money he sent the money direct to another member here (that I was buying from)

And thats it... thats everything I have to say about this and will be happy to write here again when its resolved.

Thanks for reading.

That's ridiculous. You should have gotten your money back or the laser. This is unacceptable behavior for any seller on this forum. Was the laser ever completed? He should have never withdrew the money from his PayPal till he delivered the product (assuming he did and hasn't refunded you because he can't)
I hope that he will make things right. He owes you big time.

Your English is clear and very understandable. You did a very good job. Waiting to see the outcome of this. I remember seeing the other threads. I am a little shocked that this is still an issue. I hope you two can work something out.

yeah that sounds really ridiculous for it to take that long

hope everything gets worked out

Just saw this post, all I can say is the second I have the refund to give, it will be sent.
I just finished listing on ebay, and am trying for sales.. I cannot send what I do not have.

All I can say is im working on this..

The thread in the vet section is more then a few months old. I thought the problem would have been worked out by now

Wannaburn has been here at LPF for some time. I'm sure he has no intentions of ripping anyone off. Miscommunications, and busy life styles, are probably the only thing to blame.
Maybe wannaburn can give a estimated time frame?

Also $600+ is a fair amount of change. I know if I owed someone that much it might take a few weeks to pay back.
Just keep us posted, I'm sure he will come through.

That Sounds formidable I feel you because I had (approximately) similar experience with CNI for a Yellow Laser. :/

yobresal said it best the money should not have been touched before he laser was sent out. Not having the money because you spent it is the sellers problem not the buyers problem. and if you cant rasie 600 in 9 months something is deffintly wrong with that situation. And to be honest my work ethic has always been if i've been paid to do a job then its my problem to hold my deadlines and you shouldn't take on more work if you cant hanle what you already have. Just my opinion. And if you dont have 600 to pay at once send something in good faith and make a bunch of smaller payments at least that way it looks like your trying to pay of your debt then buying yourself Time.

tfink660 said:

yobresal said it best the money should not have been touched before he laser was sent out. Not having the money because you spent it is the sellers problem not the buyers problem. and if you cant rasie 600 in 9 months something is deffintly wrong with that situation. And to be honest my work ethic has always been if i've been paid to do a job then its my problem to hold my deadlines and you shouldn't take on more work if you cant hanle what you already have. Just my opinion. And if you dont have 600 to pay at once send something in good faith and make a bunch of smaller payments at least that way it looks like your trying to pay of your debt then buying yourself Time.

Click to expand...

I completely agree with you, this is bad business practice on the sellers part(although some credit given for still trying to make it right).

reginak I hope you get everything back and then some. +1 for being level headed

Hope you get it back, plus the 2.2% inflation you're owed.

reginak, it was very nice of you to give him a $600 8-month, interest-free loan. :undecided:

Trevor

Is hard to believe that in 9 months you can't get $600 back or the laser you ordered.

Yobresal had it right, 100%. It was not his money to play with.

A lot of times simple communication is required.
If JLSE/WB had difficulty meeting the order or fallen on hard times, communicate this to the buyer, a lot of times they'll be understanding.

That said, 9 months is hard to justify.

JLSE/WB' s REP speaks for itself and hopefully he'll come good.

Encap said:

Is hard to believe that in 9 months you can't get $600 back or the laser you ordered.

Yobresal had it right, 100%. It was not his money to play with.

Click to expand...

This was a custom dual diode build which the buyer requested more custom options.
The initial build took much longer while experimenting with a linear control
driver for both diodes, as well as additional expansion optics with minimal loss.
These lasers already take so much time to make, and with the requests for
additional options to be designed into it, things got slow tracked.

All this came at a bad time, and with a build that already takes ~40hrs between
machining and alignment, plus the addition of the requested optics and
electronics changes. All this takes time.

Then the buyer decided to back out, which just so happened to be during
the worst financial pinch ive gone through yet. whilst balancing a family
ie 2 kids and a mortgage.

The passed couple of months have been consumed with a close relative
going into kidney failure, almost losing them, and me being pulled in all directions
to help out during their recovery with dialysis and doctors appointments.

Rather than just saying 'F@#K IT', im still working on collecting the funds to repay
the buyer.

The time line got out of hand, and all I can say is im doing my best to get the
$ back to them.


I was not "playing" with the buyers money, as you so succinctly put it.

Wannaburn/JLSE an asset of this forum, i am sure he has his reasons!
Hope it gets resolved.. :beer: good luck to wb and reg!

JLSE said:

This was a custom dual diode build which the buyer requested more custom options.
The initial build took much longer while experimenting with a linear control
driver for both diodes, as well as additional expansion optics with minimal loss.
These lasers already take so much time to make, and with the requests for
additional options to be designed into it, things got slow tracked.

All this came at a bad time, and with a build that already takes ~40hrs between
machining and alignment, plus the addition of the requested optics and
electronics changes. All this takes time.

Then the buyer decided to back out, which just so happened to be during
the worst financial pinch ive gone through yet. whilst balancing a family
ie 2 kids and a mortgage.

The passed couple of months have been consumed with a close relative
going into kidney failure, almost losing them, and me being pulled in all directions
to help out during their recovery with dialysis and doctors appointments.

Rather than just saying 'F@#K IT', im still working on collecting the funds to repay
the buyer.

The time line got out of hand, and all I can say is im doing my best to get the
$ back to them.


I was not "playing" with the buyers money, as you so succinctly put it.

Click to expand...

OK fair enough-- not playing with the buyer's money.

Would imagine, however, without a clear agreement that a build is a special order that can not be cancelled and/or that a deposit is not refundable, it is not a good practice to spend a customers money if you do not have a back up source of funds available in the event of cancellation and need to return a deposit.

How would you or anyone feel under similar circumstances having cancelled order --cancellation accepted --only to find a deposit has become a long term, relatively speaking, loan rather than an immediate refund? Everyone has troubles and problems from time to time but 9 months becomes a mattter of use of money over time.
A dollar is the same for everyone--needed for the things of life that you do not make yourself and for services of others.
I would feel that you are paying for everything you want to pay for in everyday life and loaning my money to yourself over and over again rather than returning my deposit.

Anyway good luck with getting the refund out ASAP.

Just to be clear here, I asked for a refund after 7 months. And the second thing is that I never requested "additional" options, I was told by him that he was looking into some options, and it got me interested but after that he told me that he was abandoning these options (like a power control) because complexity. I never asked for it in the first place. And anyway, he told me "2 weeks" and I waited for 7 months before asking my money back.

Well, guess I just don't wanna be the "impatient girl" here. I'm not.