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Old 05-26-2015, 05:04 AM #1
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Default I need some advice guys

Hello everyone.

I had recently put up a for sale ad:

Several lasers and a flashlight for sale

I had a member called "Willjoe21" contact me and offer to buy the Arctic that was on sale, and the 532nm Stick.

We agreed on $250 for both units, and that we would split the shipping costs.

So I worked it all out like this:

To avoid possible problems with Customs, I decided to ship in 3 packages.

1st package only had the 2 lasers, with the head and tail caps removed (so no clicky switches to use).

The 2 units were taped off at the battery terminal with electrical tape, so even if someone stuck in a battery, they would not power on.

The 2 units were separately wrapped with bubble wrap, with about 1.5" of bubble wrap padding completely covering each individual unit, ensuring there was about 1.5" bubbles at both ends.

I then placed them into a box that was approx 12" x 6", and I put some foam padding I had left over from another box, to cushion the units even further.


The 2nd box was the case for the Stick, and inside I stuck the head and tail caps of the 2 lasers, along with the goggles that had come originally with it.

The 3rd box was the original box for the Arctic with all the lenses it came with, but nothing else.

I shipped the first box by UPS as Willjoe21 had requested. I was very uncomfortable with all the damn questions they were asking me to ship it (what's inside? what's it for? who's it going to? etc etc)

I declared as "LED Flashlights" and I asked to put a fragile sticker on it.

I shipped the other 2 boxes approx 3 days apart by regular Post Office.

Willjoe21 claims the first box came beat up, like the UPS guys were using it as a football or something.

He claims that the Arctic barely glows at all and that the Stick does not even power on.

So I want to be a fair guy about this, so I offered to send him a brand new, never used M140 Diode so he can replace the damaged one in the Arctic.

And I wasn't sure what to do about the Stick. Since I could not think of a solution, I offered to give him a complete refund minus the shipping.

The only thing I asked is that he ship ONLY the 2 Lasers back to me, packed with the same care I took, and that as soon as I had a tracking # from him, that I would do the Paypal refund.

So now, a couple of days later, he sends me a PM saying he opened the Stick inside and that there's NO LASER DIODE INSIDE OF IT!

That is an absolute impossibility!! I have NEVER opened those pointers, EVER! I tested to make sure they powered on and were shining as they were supposed to BEFORE I started packing them up.

So either:

1. The UPS guys opened the package, somehow stole the laser diode only from the Stick (not the Arctic, apparently that one they left alone)

OR

2. Willjoe21 is lying thru his teeth about this.

What I suspect:

He wanted to get a better deal, so he would "pay" the agreed amount, then claim the lasers were damaged so that I would provide a "partial refund", and that way he would get a discount from me.

Or it's possible he's telling the truth about the UPS damage AND doesn't know how to confirm what a diode looks like inside a host.

I want to be a good guy about this. I had offered a full refund minus what it cost me to ship them.

He claims I am trying to stiff him. I am posting this because, IF he has genuinely received faulty pointers from me, I WANT TO MAKE IT RIGHT!!

But there is no effin' way in hell that I, deliberately took out the diode from the Stick, and shipped him an empty host. I wouldn't even be comfortable doing that! as I don't have enough experience with 532nm diodes, and could easily muck one up by trying to take it apart!

So what would you guys recommend I do? Willjoe21 is welcome to post in this thread if he likes. Bro, if you are genuine about your complaints, I want to fix it.


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Old 05-26-2015, 05:06 AM #2
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Default Re: I need some advice guys

I actually have another guy: Fooness, who has PM'ed me with interest in the Rifle and the Nitecore flashlight.

I just sent him a PM explaining that I will have to hold off on making any more sales before I deal with this one.
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Old 05-26-2015, 07:59 AM #3
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Default Re: I need some advice guys

i'm not being biased here but i do think your "customer"
is scamming you....If the UPS guys open the package they would've sent a notice saying that the package was opened for inspection...
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Old 05-26-2015, 09:01 AM #4
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Default Re: I need some advice guys

@futureone Just an advice, before sending anything, remember to take photos of it, especially showing that it works

Editt: We can't say who is right and who is wrong here. Not being bias or anything, my deal with Willjoe21 is really smooth and without any complain

Last edited by marcuspeh; 05-26-2015 at 12:24 PM.
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Old 05-26-2015, 09:58 AM #5
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Default Re: I need some advice guys

Anyone who had dealt with me please feel green to chime in if I was hard to deal with, tried to scam you or in any wa y did not follow our transaction to a "t" and being a new member I have done everything by the book and everything has went smoothly.

Me being the guy I am always curious decided to take apart the 532nm further to see what the problem was and the fact I have a brand new bdr-209 I could put it If if need be pushed my interest farther. I unscrewed the housing and saw the driver which hand a vertical rectangular driver attached to a circular board that fit down into the host. I pulle the whole unit out and saw a multi-piece copper module which was simple to tell where the optics where and where the diode should be and once I carefully removed all of the thermal paste and separated where there should be an 808nm diode there is a square copper/brass diode holder in there completely see-through with one wire coming out off the side of it right were a 3.6 diode should press in. I am lining a bit of about any of this. I have communicated with you about this matter a couple times, and also posted 2 adds on here to get these things reparied.

I am not hard to deal with ask Rick Trent, Doug Johnson, Eghemus, (Jander644), livinloud, marcuspeh, DTR, and kmm5117. I have done business on parts, diodes, and complete lasers with any of them without any complaints whatsoever, except Jander which is an awesome guy and is fixing the issue with a 405 I aqired from him and he even threw in an extra gift for me.
Bottom line is seriously I paid for 2 lasers neither of which worked when I got them due to shipping missing parts or whatever the case may be. I am working hard on here to earn a very positive relationship with anyone I've dealt with I even have paid shipping both ways for my repairs with Rick and Doug.

I have bee posting thread to try to get repairs done in which I would pay for! By God why would I do this if I was trying to scam you? I honestly swear to Jesus I don't know how to post pictures right on this post or I would go in my garage and post to you what I found after opening up the 532.
I decided decided to send them back at dirt then I found 2 guys interested in fixing the Spyder for me so I thought perfect I'll keep it and then thought maybe it's something simple with the 532 and opened it up.....I am not trying to get one over chech with all of those people I mentioned and see if I have a good rer so far. Hell I even just bought a $400 diode module fromDTR last week to make a killer 520nm so if I were trying to scam you would I have asked for money back? I never did except in the post before the one is said yeah I'd rather ship them back and policies for all the hassle. Give me an email address I will send you pictures and and you can post them for me! I am a good upstanding albeit new member and would like to keep it that way.

when my 405 came in DOA bedroom Jander644 I went to DTR and spent my own $130 on a new diode and module and shipped it back to him for install, I could have just as easily asked for my money back or asked him to pay for it but I didnt! I have best I tensions here and in life. I have ran a very successful business since 1999 based on customer service and loyalty to people I am not a fly by night scammer. Let me know how we can handle this amicably and we will. I even said in a post talking to someone about the arctic that I'm sure FutureOne is a great guy and the arctic was damaged in shipping because when I got it it only put out 26mw.

I am going to be gotta work in 2 hours.....have a nice night,

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Last edited by Willjoe21; 05-28-2015 at 09:56 PM.
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Old 05-26-2015, 10:15 AM #6
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Default Re: I need some advice guys

Money is of not a concern to me as I am not rich but wouldn't spend it if I didn't have it to waste on lasers so what's the benefit for me to ask for repairs from others rather than just send them back and get my moeny back as I would be spending more to get them repaired?

Please future give me your email and I will send you pictures of what I found inside the 532. Forget the arctic I have someone repairing it for me. I want you to see what I saw. When I say I opened it up I left Ll the optics in one piece and just separated the diode holder portion so as maybe to have a working laser again someday. I am a laser collector and the biggest 532 I have is a WL EVO 100mw, I drool over the thought of a 400-500mw 532. I want one and have post a few WTB 532 adds on here.

Joe Hornsby

Sorry for all of the typing errors I just woke up not long ago.
Also the shipping was:

Package1- both laser without tailcaps
Package2- stick case, arctic tailcap, safety shades, warning labels from both lasers.

Package3- stick tailcap.
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Old 05-26-2015, 11:32 AM #7
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Default Re: I need some advice guys

Quote:
Originally Posted by FutureOne View Post
I shipped the first box by UPS as Willjoe21 had requested. I was very uncomfortable with all the damn questions they were asking me to ship it (what's inside? what's it for? who's it going to? etc etc)

I declared as "LED Flashlights" and I asked to put a fragile sticker on it.

I shipped the other 2 boxes approx 3 days apart by regular Post Office.

Willjoe21 claims the first box came beat up, like the UPS guys were using it as a football or something.

Or it's possible he's telling the truth about the UPS damage AND doesn't know how to confirm what a diode looks like inside a host.
I immediately see a big mistake here. I have said this before here and I will say it again and all of you better listen or this will happen again to others,
NEVER EVER PUT A FRAGILE STICKER ON ANY PACKAGE!!!!!
This is especially important with UPS!

I know what I am talking about, I worked for many years in a storage facility that also rented mailboxes, we also rented storage to businesses that wanted to get deliveries that would be put directly into there storage units, some deliveries were very large and the UPS guy would come into the office and say I have XX number of boxes for someone and I would go unlock the unit and he would bring them right to the unit. Other times it was just a few boxes so I would sign for them at the office and put them in the unit later myself. Over 9 years I handled thousands of packages shipped UPS, and I can tell you with absolute certainty that at least half of them with a fragile sticker arrived partly smashed and or had holes in it. I talked to UPS, FedEx, and USPS delivery people who all told me never ship anything with a fragile sticker. UPS is far worse than the other two from what I saw. If you ship something genuinely high value and fragile, and send it UPS, then make sure they won't have it for more than 2 days, otherwise just package it good so it can't be broken.

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Old 05-26-2015, 03:53 PM #8
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Default Re: I need some advice guys

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willjoe21 View Post
Money is of not a concern to me as I am not rich but wouldn't spend it if I didn't have it to waste on lasers so what's the benefit for me to ask for repairs from others rather than just send them back and get my moeny back as I would be spending more to get them repaired?

Please future give me your email and I will send you pictures of what I found inside the 532. Forget the arctic I have someone repairing it for me. I want you to see what I saw. When I say I opened it up I left Ll the optics in one piece and just separated the diode holder portion so as maybe to have a working laser again someday. I am a laser collector and the biggest 532 I have is a WL EVO 100mw, I drool over the thought of a 400-500mw 532. I want one and have post a few WTB 532 adds on here.

Joe Hornsby

Sorry for all of the typing errors I just woke up not long ago.
Also the shipping was:

Package1- both laser without tailcaps
Package2- stick case, arctic tailcap, safety shades, warning labels from both lasers.

Package3- stick tailcap.
Welp it wasn't Dead On Arrival it lased for a whopping 25 seconds sucks for sure. However, Joe has been very very reasonable ... just a quick question, did you put the cells in the arctic case positive? I can't say on the stick, but most of those 532nm are case positive as well, food for thought.
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Old 05-26-2015, 06:07 PM #9
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Default Re: I need some advice guys

Hope this all gets worked out between you guys. Not sure what to think.
Pi, are you saying not to put that sticker on because they deliberately mess with them? Don't remember ever shipping that way but I think you are saying the sticker basically is meaningless to them so forget it and just package as well as possible.
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Old 05-26-2015, 08:10 PM #10
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Default Re: I need some advice guys

Well that is messed up about UPS.

I can tell you right now I HATE HATE HATE UPS! They really really jam us up here.

I have a car that I've been putting together, and probably a good 1/3rd of the cost of those parts has been EXCLUSIVELY UPS Brokerage fees!

They have the highest fees in the shipping industry IMO.

I ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS use Canada Post, which I believe transfers over to USPS for small stuff, and DHL for the higher cost options?

Anyway, I have always put on fragile stickers on all stuff I've sent out to people over the years thru Canada Post, and this includes Laptops, and sensitive computer parts, like RAM and Hard Drives.

I used to do a lot of sales on ebay, here's my feedback:

eBay Feedback Profile for future303

I only ever had *one* broken item by USPS. It was an old style projector that I admit was heavy and cumbersome.

I had 2 Arctics, I sold one back in 2012 to a guy in Australia. Similar shipping procedure, well packed, fragile stickers, etc.

He got his stuff fine.

This is the first time I ship something out thru UPS. I was actually going to request from Willjoe21 if I could just use Canada Post as I usually do. I didn't do that, my mistake.

If he knew that UPS guys are assholes like that, would have been nice to warn me about it.

Biggest lesson learned for me here? NEVER EVER USE UPS EVER AGAIN!

As for the Stick missing the laser diode. Ok, please send pics. I absolutely did not open that unit, ever! that was my only 532nm and I didn't want to mess it up.

I'm not a very active seller on here, only reason I was selling these things was so I could get my car repaired as I ran over a freakin' muffler on the freeway and it jumped up, smacked my car and did this:



My intention has never been to scam you.

So I don't know guys, what would you recommend? Willjoe21, would you be happy with me shipping you a brand new M140 diode to replace on the Arctic as promised originally? and $100 refund for the Stick?
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Old 05-26-2015, 08:16 PM #11
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Default Re: I need some advice guys

Quote:
did you put the cells in the arctic case positive?
Just for the record, I let him know about that BEFORE he got the packages, AND I reminded him when he messaged me that the Stick wasn't turning on at all.

I was going to refund, and I asked him to send me the tracking # so I would process the refund, but now's he's went and opened stuff up.

My first thought was that Lazerer scammed me with a Stick that had no diode, but even though I haven't used it that much, it WAS working fine when I shipped it out.

And yes, next time I sell something, pics and videos with datestamps will be taken.

And I hope those UPS guys lose their jobs soon.
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Old 05-26-2015, 11:23 PM #12
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Default Re: I need some advice guys

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Originally Posted by Pman View Post
Pi, are you saying not to put that sticker on because they deliberately mess with them?
Yes that is exactly what I am saying.





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Old 05-27-2015, 12:00 AM #13
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Default Re: I need some advice guys

If he's not comfortable with repairing them himself why did he open them up in the first place?

Either way, he needs to ship them back to get a refund. Unfortunately a buyer can do pretty much whatever they want. He could ship you an empty box and Paypal will still force you to refund him.

2 lasers don't randomly break, and regardless of how beaten up the box is, if it were packaged well it shouldn't matter.
Either the seller is lying about something, or the buyer did something wrong and broke them.

One of you is a dirty little liar though

it's like our own little murder mystery!

edit: diodes don't randomly disappear our of lasers either.....so dirty....lol

Last edited by Mohrenberg; 05-27-2015 at 12:01 AM.
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Old 05-27-2015, 12:16 AM #14
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Default Re: I need some advice guys

Quote:
Unfortunately a buyer can do pretty much whatever they want
Which is exactly why as a seller I wouldn't even bother to try any scams in the first place. It's a losing battle. I should know, being on ebay for over 15 years, I have been scammed more than a few times.

I honestly believed this guy until he said he started taking it apart. If someone promised me a refund, I'd be packing it up and returning asap, not gutting it for parts.

And the units were very well cushioned, at least I believe reasonably so, they had at least an inch and a half of thickness of bubble wrap, and the box inside was reinforced with foam. An accidental drop probably wouldn't have done anything. They would have had to literally kicking it around for a while. With that kind of abuse, what packaging could withstand enough to protect sensitive equipment like this?
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Old 05-27-2015, 02:33 AM #15
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Originally Posted by jander6442 View Post
Welp it wasn't Dead On Arrival it lased for a whopping 25 seconds sucks for sure. However, Joe has been very very reasonable ... just a quick question, did you put the cells in the arctic case positive? I can't say on the stick, but most of those 532nm are case positive as well, food for thought.
Jander-
I read the manual on the arctic before ever attempting to get a battery anywhere near the laser.

As for the stick, I specifically sent FutureOne a message and asked about battery type and direction before I ever even received the complete laser.
As he sent the laser itself in the first package and the tail didn't arrive for a week after that.

P.s. Did you get the package I sent you?
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Old 05-27-2015, 02:47 AM #16
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Default

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Originally Posted by Mohrenberg View Post
If he's not comfortable with repairing them himself why did he open them up in the first place?

Either way, he needs to ship them back to get a refund. Unfortunately a buyer can do pretty much whatever they want. He could ship you an empty box and Paypal will still force you to refund him.

2 lasers don't randomly break, and regardless of how beaten up the box is, if it were packaged well it shouldn't matter.
Either the seller is lying about something, or the buyer did something wrong and broke them.

One of you is a dirty little liar though

it's like our own little murder mystery!

edit: diodes don't randomly disappear our of lasers either.....so dirty....lol

No one is a liar here sir!

I believe we both have good reputations here and elsewhere such as eBAy. I do know mostly how to fix and build lasers but 532's are a different animal altogether. I can't believe you have the gall to call either of us anything...you know nothing of the situation. I have been very reasonable and I know shit happens in shipping which is why I sought repair.....it is after all buyer beware on here. As I said to Jander when the laser I bought from him crapped out I didn't hesitate to buy a new module and never asked him to pay a dime

I also never asked FutureOne to pay a dime either! You sir should mind your manners and you business, sorry if I offend anyone other than Mohrenberg but that comment really upset me I strive to maintain a great relationship with people in general....give me your email address to my personal message box and I will send you a pic of exactly what I found inside when opened.

And by the way if I choose to buy a $200 laser and then smash it with a hammer that's my business to do that, to open it, to piss on it, or anything else I choose.

And to everyone else FutureOne and I will work this out amicably amongst us adults without help but once again I implore anyone reading this to find ANYTHING negative as far as dealings on LPF, eBAy, or anywhere else regarding me....you won't because I am fair and honest but just as anyone else I get upset when I feel slighted.
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