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Old 05-22-2010, 05:32 AM #17
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Default Re: How can this dispute be resolved with Dr Lava

@rpaloalto - yesterday and today

@pontiac- the sleds and drives were discarded a week ago I only have my receipt and te smoc's left
I know tht drlava is a veryreputable seller and that's why I am asking the forum how this can be resolved , NOT trying to dispute his credability.

@ daguin your right I did ask for opinions and I think all of this is very constructive.



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Old 05-22-2010, 05:33 AM #18
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Default Re: How can this dispute be resolved with Dr Lava

Daguin - I'm going to have to disagree with you; the driver was sold under the assumption that it's preset at 550mA. If it outputs anything more or less than 550mA, it is technically defective. Yes, the components should be checked before assembly but the equipment or technical expertise may not have been available to the builder; hence the purchase of a preset driver...
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Old 05-22-2010, 05:38 AM #19
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Default Re: How can this dispute be resolved with Dr Lava

I agree with Dave, I don't think that Dr Lava owes anything for the diodes but only for the preset fee. However he is offering at least half or more for one diode, that is a pretty reasonable deal!

I too am curious how long you took to post this publicly, you need to give someone time to resolve something privately before bringing the dirt to the public.
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Old 05-22-2010, 05:46 AM #20
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Default Re: How can this dispute be resolved with Dr Lava

Damn! This is a tough one. In my opinion the first diode should be compensated, the second not a chance. Analogies cannot acurately be likened to this situation so I think these kinds of comparisons should not become any type of proof. If you paid to have the driver set up to a specific configuration the reason for this is likely because you do not have the means to do it yourself. This is understandable. Most new builders can't. If you were having the driver set up for you then why would you even need to read the assembly part of the manual. I'd be pissed, but it sounds like the good Doctor is willing to be a stand up guy and meet you half way. Here him out.
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Old 05-22-2010, 05:51 AM #21
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Default Re: How can this dispute be resolved with Dr Lava

Lava doesn't owe both diodes...when the first one broke, that's the red flag that says something is wrong. The second one is on the buyer, no question.

Also, the pre-setting fee should get refunded, no question. Lava already said this too, so that's not an issue.

So then the argument is the cost of the first diode. And to be honest, lava already offered to cover half of the cost of the first diode, and says he then offered more but didn't say what that larger offer was. So to me, a good solution would probably be somewhere between lava's offer of half the first diode and the full cost of the first diode. So maybe 3/4 of the first diode? Or whatever his second larger offer was? (In addition to the presetting fee, of course).

I don't know what Lava's second offer was, but by my reckoning it was probably a pretty fair offer, paying for more than 1/2 of 1 diode but presumably less than the price of 2 diodes.

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Old 05-22-2010, 05:56 AM #22
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Default Re: How can this dispute be resolved with Dr Lava

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Daguin - I'm going to have to disagree with you; the driver was sold under the assumption that it's preset at 550mA. If it outputs anything more or less than 550mA, it is technically defective. Yes, the components should be checked before assembly but the equipment or technical expertise may not have been available to the builder; hence the purchase of a preset driver...
If I order 30.06 ammo from a dealer and he sends me 22-250 ammo. Is the dealer responsible for my blown rifle if I put the 22-250 ammo into my 30.06? They "look similar" but it only takes a cursory examination to see that it is not 30.06 ammo.

Or am I responsible for not looking to see if it was actually 30.06 ammo before I stuck it into my gun?

Then after I have blown up my first rifle, would the dealer be responsible for my second rifle if I did it again without figuring out why my first one blew up?

It only takes a cursory examination to know if the driver had the correct jumper installed. The builder did not exercise due diligence in assuring that he received what he ordered.

Drlava is responsible for missing the pre-set. SirVesa is responsible for installing the unset driver and any subsequent damage from that installation.

If drlava sent four Grove2 drivers by mistake would he be responsible for SirVesa installing them in a laser designed for a micro boost or should SirVesa have noticed that the drivers were not correct and got them replaced before ruining another component with them?

Acting as a "builder" requires having a certain level of knowledge and accepting responsibility for both the parts and the assembly. Mistakes are made in packaging and shipping. It is the builder's responsibility to check that he received what he ordered. If he had checked what he got, there would be no problem. He didn't check what he received. Now it appears that he is trying to get someone else to pay for his lack of attention.

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Old 05-22-2010, 05:57 AM #23
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Default Re: How can this dispute be resolved with Dr Lava

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Sorry. The ultimate responsibility lies with the builder. It takes .5 second to look to see if the correct jumper has been soldered. One blown diode could be blamed on the builder's exuberance or naivete. A second blown diode is the builder's negligence.

Learn to double check EVERY step of the way. You will still blow some diodes, but it will prevent silly mistakes like this one.

As you have found, assuming that someone else has done their job, and/or that nothing could have changed between order and delivery is a game of Russian roulette.

Your Toyota accelerator analogy is not valid. The drivers of Toyotas are NOT assembling the car from parts purchased separately. Drivers are not expected to know or understand which parts go where or how to recognize if the wrong part was delivered or faulty. Assemblers and builders are expected to know these things.

Drlava is only responsible for the fee for the missed pre-set service. You should have noticed this before you built the laser.

Peace,
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My opinion is as Dave stated...

Although it is something that you ordered pre-set, you must still check it. He did not sell you the diodes. Only the drivers. And he would be responsible for the drivers only.

I know it sounds unfair. But those are the facts. (and he is not the builder)

I think that the offer to pay half for the one diode, plus the price of setting the drivers, is over compensation. And great customer service.

Just my honest opinion...

P.S. Drivers can be sensitive too... The documentation shows that they can be damaged if they are powered without a load. And if somebody (not you), but somebody that did not read the documentation, powered the driver without a load and damaged it, this should not fall on the seller. But the builder... (only mentioning this because I sell a lot of pre-set drivers, and I warn buyers in my instruction sheets. But drlava's driver documentation mentions these precautions as well)
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Old 05-22-2010, 06:10 AM #24
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Default Re: How can this dispute be resolved with Dr Lava

Geez Dave, calm down. People have right to disagree with you.

Seb is not like you guys. He has not built dozens of lasers. Its obvious by his need for a pre-adjusted driver that he does not have the skills you guys do. Its a simple order, who would think Lava would drop the ball? Lava has an excellent reputation. Its clear negligence, and Lavas willing to work it out. So its obviously he sees it this way too.
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Old 05-22-2010, 06:13 AM #25
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Default Re: How can this dispute be resolved with Dr Lava

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Geez Dave, calm down. People have right to disagree with you.

Seb is not like you guys. He has not built dozens of lasers. Its obvious by his need for a pre-adjusted driver that he does not have the skills you guys do. Its a simple order, who would think Lava would drop the ball? Lava has an excellent reputation. Its clear negligence, and Lavas willing to work it out. So its obviously he sees it this way too.
LOL! I am not excited at all.

I was just trying to give a couple of different perspectives in the same post.

My basic point is, that it is NOT the parts man's problem. It is the mechanic's problem.

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Old 05-22-2010, 06:20 AM #26
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Default Re: How can this dispute be resolved with Dr Lava

Funny you should say that. When I was a mechanic we got a bad water pump once. It lead to a blown radiator, and the parts house split the difference of the new radiator and half the labor.

I think that because they are working it out shows a lot honor on Lava's side.
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Old 05-22-2010, 06:28 AM #27
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Default Re: How can this dispute be resolved with Dr Lava

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Funny you should say that. When I was a mechanic we got a bad water pump once. It lead to a blown radiator, and the parts house split the difference of the new radiator and half the labor.

I think that because they are working it out shows a lot honor on Lava's side.
I absolutely agree.

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Old 05-22-2010, 06:29 AM #28
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Default Re: How can this dispute be resolved with Dr Lava

Like I said in pm and here I am willing and deserve to eat the second diode but the first and preset fees should be compensated. Even if he gets the diode for less than wht I paid. A 22 and a 30.06 is a difference enough that the mistake could not be made but in this case the drivers no matter what they are set or PRESET they look the same.

@ tj drlavas reputation is not in question and his products are top notch.

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Old 05-22-2010, 06:40 AM #29
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Default Re: How can this dispute be resolved with Dr Lava

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Like I said in pm and here I am willing and deserve to eat the second diode but the first and preset fees should be compensated. Even if he gets the diode for less than wht I paid. A 22 and a 30.06 is a difference enough that the mistake could not be made but in this case the drivers no matter what they are set or PRESET they look the same.
That is our basic disagreement. They do not "look" the same. One has no solder bridge present. The other has a solder bridge present

And I said a 22-250. They are based on the same cartridge as the 30.06. The "shell/brass" part is almost the same. However, one has a .308 bullet and the other has a .224 bullet. The main visual difference is that the bullet is .084 inch dia. smaller in the 22-250. That is a small difference, but still visually noticeable.

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Old 05-22-2010, 07:05 AM #30
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Default Re: How can this dispute be resolved with Dr Lava

I think you should take the generous compensation of Lava replacing the first diode and the pre-set fees, and leave it at that.

I still can't believe that you stuck a second one on there after quickly dismissing the first dead diode? I'd be in tears if I just blew $200 on an LED. If you don't have the technicle skills to set a driver I don't think building a $300 laser is a good idea XD

Guess some people just have more money than sense sometimes.

Like I said, take the diode and driver and leave it at that, it was an honourable offer on Lava's part.
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Default Re: How can this dispute be resolved with Dr Lava

how do we know that he actually blew these diodes, i say show us some pics of something to prove you have these things ()



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Old 05-22-2010, 01:26 PM #32
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Default Re: How can this dispute be resolved with Dr Lava

I agree 100% with this post when the first one blew that was any bodys clue that something wasn't right and you should have stopped there. So how many people will it take saying this to convince you ?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Asherz View Post
I think you should take the generous compensation of Lava replacing the first 1/2 of the diode and the pre-set fees, and leave it at that.

I still can't believe that you stuck a second one on there after quickly dismissing the first dead diode? I'd be in tears if I just blew $200 on an LED. If you don't have the technicle skills to set a driver I don't think building a $300 laser is a good idea XD

Guess some people just have more money than sense sometimes.

Like I said, take the diode and driver and leave it at that, it was an honourable offer on Lava's part.
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