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Old 11-26-2011, 06:03 PM #1
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Default Bad Experience with SwimminSurfer256

So i bought a LaserPhysics argon laser from SwimminSurfer256. Here And it arrived on Monday. I set it up, tested it, and it ran for 45 minutes on low power before it suddenly died. Now whenever i turn it on, only the fan comes on, and nothing is emitted anymore. I took it to a Physics instructor(E & M specialist) to have him look at it. He told me that it was most likely the power supply that is blown. I PM'd Swimmin about this because he claimed the item "Works Great" in his sale thread and he replied by saying that it was my fault the laser doesnt work anymore. He claimed to have only tested it for 10-20 minutes each time and that it worked perfectly then. I told him that the things he sell should be tested for problems for long periods of time before they are sold to other people and he claims that sellers of items do not have to test their items for long periods of times before selling it to someone else. I told him that this is his fault that it doesnt work because no extensive testing was done on the laser to ensure it didnt have any problems and I asked if i could send it back for a full refund. He replied by saying he doesnt have my money..and that it is my fault the laser broke. He wanted me to file an insurance claim with the post office, however, he wont even provide me a scan of the actual shipping receipt he got at the time of shipping because he says he doesnt have one. Furthermore, i also sent timelablasers a video with the problem and he told me that its either the trigger board that's fault or the main board is not supplying the low voltage current to the tube filament and that it would be costly to fix or is irreparable. Either way, SwimminSurfer is currently NOT accepting the item back and says that its my fault it isnt working and im stuck with a $400 loss and a broken laser.. ):


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Old 11-26-2011, 06:51 PM #2
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Default Re: Bad Experience with SwimminSurfer256

Major ouch. He seems like an honest guy, he's been selling stuff here on the forum a while without a problem, I trust this will be resolved.
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Old 11-26-2011, 06:57 PM #3
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Default Re: Bad Experience with SwimminSurfer256

@ zdarkazn I feel so bad for you, sorry that happened to you; I too was taking a serious look at it and was thinking about purchasing it, but I'm now super glad I didn't. I really hope this does work out in the end for you, that is really bad. If not then maybe charge-back for defective product might be in order.
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Old 11-26-2011, 06:59 PM #4
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Default Re: Bad Experience with SwimminSurfer256

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodofcville View Post
Major ouch. He seems like an honest guy, he's been selling stuff here on the forum a while without a problem, I trust this will be resolved.
As of now, i dont think so. He's unwilling to take the item back and is doing everything he can to make sure i lose the paypal dispute..

Quote:
Originally Posted by electron View Post
@ zdarkazn I feel so bad for you, sorry that happened to you; I too was taking a serious look at it and was thinking about purchasing it, but I'm now super glad I didn't. I really hope this does work out in the end for you, that is really bad. If not then maybe charge-back for defective product might be in order.
Paypal wants documentation as proof of evidence. I described it as internally damaged in the dispute..guess ill upload an internal picture to them..
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Old 11-26-2011, 07:11 PM #5
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Default Re: Bad Experience with SwimminSurfer256

Was there any warranty offered with the unit other than not DOA?

I believe Paypal only has buyer/seller protection for "non delivery" not "item not as described" like eBay does. At least that is what I remember but I have not had to test it before.

This is surly unfortunate. Did he offer to have you send it back to see if it was an easy fix that could have avoided any unpleasant feedback thread like this?
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Old 11-26-2011, 08:02 PM #6
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Default Re: Bad Experience with SwimminSurfer256

First of all I hope it gets fixed or you get all of your money back. I have never had a bad trade with SwimminSurfer256, and he has helped me a lot on this forum. I agree with DTR, you should send it back and he can check if it is a easy fix or refund you.
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Old 11-26-2011, 08:15 PM #7
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Default Re: Bad Experience with SwimminSurfer256

Quote:
Originally Posted by DTR View Post
Was there any warranty offered with the unit other than not DOA?

I believe Paypal only has buyer/seller protection for "non delivery" not "item not as described" like eBay does. At least that is what I remember but I have not had to test it before.

This is surly unfortunate. Did he offer to have you send it back to see if it was an easy fix that could have avoided any unpleasant feedback thread like this?
No warranty on it. However, he never fully tested it in the first place. why didnt he put that in the sale thread..? I wouldnt have bought it if i knew that he only tested it for 20 minutes each time. If you're buying a used laptop on ebay and you use it for 45 minutes and it dies due to overheating or something, is that your fault? I dont think so. That would be the sellers fault for not stating that he didnt test it for up to 45 minutes. Swimmin did not offer to have me send it back. I wanted a refund for it. He said it was my fault becuase i didnt look up to see whether or not there was a duty cycle for it or not..


Quote:
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First of all I hope it gets fixed or you get all of your money back. I have never had a bad trade with SwimminSurfer256, and he has helped me a lot on this forum. I agree with DTR, you should send it back and he can check if it is a easy fix or refund you.
At this point, i want my money back, ive lost faith in all gas lasers now..
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Old 11-26-2011, 08:26 PM #8
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Default Re: Bad Experience with SwimminSurfer256

Quote:
Originally Posted by zdarkazn View Post
No warranty on it. However, he never fully tested it in the first place. why didnt he put that in the sale thread..? I wouldnt have bought it if i knew that he only tested it for 20 minutes each time. If you're buying a used laptop on ebay and you use it for 45 minutes and it dies due to overheating or something, is that your fault? I dont think so. That would be the sellers fault for not stating that he didnt test it for up to 45 minutes. Swimmin did not offer to have me send it back. I wanted a refund for it. He said it was my fault becuase i didnt look up to see whether or not there was a duty cycle for it or not..




At this point, i want my money back, ive lost faith in all gas lasers now..
Sorry to hear about your issues...

1) Did you buy it as being NEW or did you buy it as USED ??

2) If it was used... Did you ask how long the seller had run
it without any problems or issues ???

3) Did he ask you if you were informed as to this type of Laser
and if you knew how to run it or ask you to read up on the
Laser before powering it up ???

4) Did your Laser come with Instructions ???


Jerry
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Old 11-26-2011, 08:35 PM #9
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Default Re: Bad Experience with SwimminSurfer256

zdarkazn that sucks, and I feel your pain

Unfortunately I don't think you will get your money back.

The unsaid rule of the forum, at least in so far as I have seen, is that a buyer deserves to get the product, and not DOA.

The laser came, and worked.

Beyond that... this was a used laser, and it doesn't appear the swim offered any kind of warranty one it. That's the downside of getting a deal, buying used, and not spending to buy direct from the manufacturer.

As far as paypal and chargebacks are concerned... you can try, but won't be able to do either.

Afaik DTR is 100% correct... paypal purchase not through ebay, only covers non delivery. It sucks, but it is what it is.

You can dispute the charge with your credit card, or bank, but even that is not likely to work. If it does, since it would be paypal on the hook for the money, you may lose your paypal account, so I wouldn't go that route.

Call paypal customer service and see what they say.

Unfortunately stuff happens, such is life
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Old 11-26-2011, 08:48 PM #10
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Default Re: Bad Experience with SwimminSurfer256

From my perspective...
You purchased a laser from another "person". This means that as far as any legal system is concerned you have a personal dispute. This is not a business transaction and due to the costs involved it falls under "small claims".
While it may be true that Swimmin' could have operated the unit longer for testing purposes, unless it was stated somewhere that it had been done to that length you should never ASSUME that anything has been done.
This, unfortunately, means that you are at fault. If you demand a longer burn in for proof then you need to ask for it, or at least ask about it.
From a supplier point, there rarely is enough time and resources to perform in depth testing on everything. Some items would actually be devalued by such "testing". In this case Swimmin' tried multiple testings, of a somewhat limited nature, to prove that the device was operating. Most suppliers wouldn't even do that much. Usually a unit is selected at random to represent a whole production run. If it passes the tests then the whole lot are considered the same, even though everyone knows they are not.
So you were guaranteed that it was working. And you have supported that claim.
I can see no wrong to either of you here.
After a short duration the device failed. This isn't the best result, for either of you, but it does happen. You think that Swimmin' should have to take the "hit" for bad electronics that burned out after you purchased it and were using it ?
I don't think any person can guarantee the electronics of a device.
I think that if you are really interested in resolving this matter that you should be trying to work with Swimmin' to see if perhaps you might BOTH share the costs of repair, if worthwhile.
Sharing the costs of the problem and moving on to possibly better transactions would be more beneficial to you both than fighting to make one of you responsible for the costs. Even if you "win" and he pays you you both still lose !

Just to be honest, Swimmin' has done a lot of sales that I have heard of here and almost everybody has great things to say about him. Of the few that have had some sort of problem he prefers to work it out in a way that causes the least amount of discomfort for both. Yeah sometimes it hurts/sucks when something goes wrong but that is the way of things.
It's like an old saying that goes : "Try to be part of the solution and not part of the problem."

Just my thoughts.
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Old 11-26-2011, 08:49 PM #11
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Default Re: Bad Experience with SwimminSurfer256

Quote:
Originally Posted by lasersbee View Post
Sorry to hear about your issues...

1) Did you buy it as being NEW or did you buy it as USED ??

2) If it was used... Did you ask how long the seller had run
it without any problems or issues ???

3) Did he ask you if you were informed as to this type of Laser
and if you knew how to run it or ask you to read up on the
Laser before powering it up ???

4) Did your Laser come with Instructions ???


Jerry
Used. I assumed it was fully tested because he said it "works great" in his thread.. He didnt ask if i was informed or not. No instructions came with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by InfinitusEquitas View Post
zdarkazn that sucks, and I feel your pain

Unfortunately I don't think you will get your money back.

The unsaid rule of the forum, at least in so far as I have seen, is that a buyer deserves to get the product, and not DOA.

The laser came, and worked.

Beyond that... this was a used laser, and it doesn't appear the swim offered any kind of warranty one it. That's the downside of getting a deal, buying used, and not spending to buy direct from the manufacturer.

As far as paypal and chargebacks are concerned... you can try, but won't be able to do either.

Afaik DTR is 100% correct... paypal purchase not through ebay, only covers non delivery. It sucks, but it is what it is.

You can dispute the charge with your credit card, or bank, but even that is not likely to work. If it does, since it would be paypal on the hook for the money, you may lose your paypal account, so I wouldn't go that route.
Call paypal customer service and see what they say.

Unfortunately stuff happens, such is life
I bought it as used..a used item doesnt just die on you if you use it correctly. Swimmin is a shady person by not putting how long he tested it for.. Like i said before, if i knew he only tested it for 10-20 minutes each time, i wouldnt have bought it..
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Old 11-26-2011, 08:49 PM #12
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Default Re: Bad Experience with SwimminSurfer256

That sucks. I was seriously wanting to buy that one the first time it was up for sale and again when he was selling it.

Has anyone pointed this thread out to SwimminSurfer256 yet?

I've had nothing but good experiences with him in the past and I know he sales quite a bit here.

Last edited by jcranmer; 11-26-2011 at 08:55 PM.
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Old 11-26-2011, 08:59 PM #13
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Default Re: Bad Experience with SwimminSurfer256

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShortyInCanada View Post
From my perspective...
You purchased a laser from another "person". This means that as far as any legal system is concerned you have a personal dispute. This is not a business transaction and due to the costs involved it falls under "small claims".
While it may be true that Swimmin' could have operated the unit longer for testing purposes, unless it was stated somewhere that it had been done to that length you should never ASSUME that anything has been done.
This, unfortunately, means that you are at fault. If you demand a longer burn in for proof then you need to ask for it, or at least ask about it.
From a supplier point, there rarely is enough time and resources to perform in depth testing on everything. Some items would actually be devalued by such "testing". In this case Swimmin' tried multiple testings, of a somewhat limited nature, to prove that the device was operating. Most suppliers wouldn't even do that much. Usually a unit is selected at random to represent a whole production run. If it passes the tests then the whole lot are considered the same, even though everyone knows they are not.
So you were guaranteed that it was working.
And you have supported that claim.
I can see no wrong to either of you here.
After a short duration the device failed. This isn't the best result, for either of you, but it does happen. You think that Swimmin' should have to take the "hit" for bad electronics that burned out after you purchased it and were using it ?
I don't think any person can guarantee the electronics of a device.
I think that if you are really interested in resolving this matter that you should be trying to work with Swimmin' to see if perhaps you might BOTH share the costs of repair, if worthwhile.
Sharing the costs of the problem and moving on to possibly better transactions would be more beneficial to you both than fighting to make one of you responsible for the costs. Even if you "win" and he pays you you both still lose !

Just to be honest, Swimmin' has done a lot of sales that I have heard of here and almost everybody has great things to say about him. Of the few that have had some sort of problem he prefers to work it out in a way that causes the least amount of discomfort for both. Yeah sometimes it hurts/sucks when something goes wrong but that is the way of things.
It's like an old saying that goes : "Try to be part of the solution and not part of the problem."

Just my thoughts.

So you're saying that if i put up a 1000mW Laserglow Hercules for sale saying it works, you buy it, you turn it on and after one minute, it dies, you're saying its your fault? Where did you get the information highlighted in red from? Look at all the laptop sellers on ebay. They list their laptops as being used and functional. When you buy it, and if stops working after a day or 2 when it arrives to you, they'll let you return, even though they stated they dont accept returns in their listing.. Laptop batteries are also like this.. What if you buy a laptop battery that says its working, and you receive it and it only holds a charge for 20 minutes? Are you at fault? The item IS "working".. But NO, you're not at fault..
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Old 11-26-2011, 09:00 PM #14
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Default Re: Bad Experience with SwimminSurfer256

Quote:
Originally Posted by zdarkazn View Post
Used. I assumed it was fully tested because he said it "works great" in his thread.. He didnt ask if i was informed or not. No instructions came with it.

I bought it as used..a used item doesnt just die on you if you use it correctly. Swimmin is a shady person by not putting how long he tested it for.. Like i said before, if i knew he only tested it for 10-20 minutes each time, i wouldnt have bought it..
Actually sometimes used items do die and stop working properly. That's the nature of a used item.

I had an air conditioner die on me that I bought used last year. I tested it, it ran great and cool. After a week for some reason it just wouldn't turn on.

I threw it out, went to sears, got a new one... and it still works.

Had a used TV back in college... loud pop, and it never worked again.

A used item sold without warranty is by definition sold "as is".

About instructions, and additional information... did you ever ask how long he ran it for?

While it sucks, it doesn't look like he was out to sell a lemon to anyone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcranmer View Post
Has anyone pointed this thread out to SwimminSurfer256 yet?
Shot him a PM with a link to this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zdarkazn View Post
So you're saying that if i put up a 1000mW Laserglow Hercules for sale saying it works, you buy it, you turn it on and after one minute, it dies, you're saying its your fault? Where did you get the information highlighted in red from? Look at all the laptop sellers on ebay. They list their laptops as being used and functional. When you buy it, and if stops working after a day or 2 when it arrives to you, they'll let you return, even though they stated they dont accept returns in their listing.. Laptop batteries are also like this.. What if you buy a laptop battery that says its working, and you receive it and it only holds a charge for 20 minutes? Are you at fault? The item IS "working".. But NO, you're not at fault..
You're not dealing with an ebay listing though. At best think of it as craigslist instead.

The reason most ebay sellers will let you send the laptop back is that they don't want to take a hit on feedback. Not at all because they have to.

With regards to the LG... I'd ask about warranty terms before buying a secondhand 4k laser. Or if buying a used car for example (something I do every couple of years) have a mechanic examine it. If you don't but sign the title, and hand over the money... you're stuck with it.

Neither of you is at fault here.

Last edited by InfinitusEquitas; 11-26-2011 at 09:09 PM.
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Old 11-26-2011, 09:06 PM #15
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Default Re: Bad Experience with SwimminSurfer256

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Originally Posted by InfinitusEquitas View Post
Actually sometimes used items do die and stop working properly. That's the nature of a used item.

I had an air conditioner die on me that I bought used last year. I tested it, it ran great and cool. After a week for some reason it just wouldn't turn on.

I threw it out, went to sears, got a new one... and it still works.

Had a used TV back in college... loud pop, and it never worked again.

A used item sold without warranty is by definition sold "as is".

About instructions, and additional information... did you ever ask how long he ran it for?

While it sucks, it doesn't look like he was out to sell a lemon to anyone.
Im going to stop replying to this until its solved..

Btw, the definition of used is
"An item that has been used previously. The item may have some signs of cosmetic wear, but is fully operational and functions as intended. This item may be a floor model or store return that has been used. See the seller’s listing for full details and description of any imperfections."
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Old 11-26-2011, 09:20 PM #16
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Default Re: Bad Experience with SwimminSurfer256

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Originally Posted by zdarkazn View Post
Im going to stop replying to this until its solved..

Btw, the definition of used is
"An item that has been used previously. The item may have some signs of cosmetic wear, but is fully operational and functions as intended. This item may be a floor model or store return that has been used. See the seller’s listing for full details and description of any imperfections."
By your own description the laser was fully operation on receipt and worked.

It died after 45 minutes of continuous use.

That's like buying a used car, never checking it out, and taking in on a thousand mile trip.

And once again... this isn't ebay, and it isn't a store purchase of a new item.

I worked with three electronics retailers, they often times sold items at very far below cost on returned items, selling them back "As Is" with no return. The only testing that was done was to see if they turn on and play/record/whatever for a minute.

See if swim will work with you... but bear in mind that he doesn't have to, so if he does... it's a credit to him, not a detriment if he doesn't.

Last edited by InfinitusEquitas; 11-26-2011 at 09:21 PM.
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