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Old 12-02-2011, 02:03 PM #1
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Default ALERT: Bad Selling Experience with "Electron"

UPDATE: It looks like this guy has a pattern:
ALERT: Bad Selling Experience with "Electron"

----
Sellers, watch out for this guy.

On the 31st of October he purchased a 635nm Trusfire from me here:
SOLD: (UPDATED) Custom Polished - Silver/Chrome, 635nm @ 450mW Build

He's in the US, I'm in Canada. The buyer didn't ask for expedited shipping, though to be fair, I didn't ask if he needed it either. The delivery standard (not "guarantee" mind you, just "standard") from CanadaPost is 4 to 6 weeks. About 2 weeks in, the buyer complained of not receiving the item yet. I explained that this was not abnormal. 4 weeks in, a few days ago, the buyer PM'd me threatening a Paypal dispute.

I explained that this was premature, that we hadn't even allowed the delivery "standard" to expire, let along reached the timeframe where the package would be considered "lost" by CanadaPost and thus eligible for me to collect insurance.

I also explained that if he wanted to pursue a Paypal dispute, I would defend my position by showing proof of shipment, and that I would then cease to attempt resolution informally, and turn entirely to the Paypal dispute resolution process instead. I explained that Paypal's decision would conclude our matter.

I further explain that if he instead wanted to work together, I would ensure that if, after waiting a reasonable amount of time (ie, at least to the end of the "delivery standard" period, and to the date at which the parcel would actually be considered "lost" by the post office), I would ensure that he was satisfied. If the parcel did not arrive, I would replace it. Of course, I wasn't however prepared to do that after 4 weeks, for a shipping service where we haven't even reached the outer bound of the "delivery standard".

This morning, he filed a Paypal dispute.

I won't speculate as to why, but this guy is someone to avoid. As we're now in a Paypal dispute, I don't imagine that there is any informal resolution to be gained here. Just placing this thread out there as a warning to other sellers. This guy is unreasonable.


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Old 12-02-2011, 03:04 PM #2
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Default Re: Bad Selling Experience with "Electron"

I feel your pain, great one. But, sometimes you just gotta give the jerks what they ask for (when PayPal comes back with seller performed as required, let the jerk stew in his own juices). I can understand being upset about the long delivery time, but it's just plain stupid to shoot yourself in the foot and expect a reputable seller to fawn all over you....
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Old 12-02-2011, 03:44 PM #3
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Default Re: Bad Selling Experience with "Electron"

To be fair, 6 weeks is a looong time to wait.

Still a dispute after 30 days, when shipping can take up to 42 does is unreasonable, especially since he was aware of the delivery time frame.

Seems like there are a few "bad" buyers out there lately
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Old 12-02-2011, 03:49 PM #4
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Default Re: Bad Selling Experience with "Electron"

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Originally Posted by InfinitusEquitas View Post
To be fair, 6 weeks is a looong time to wait.

Still a dispute after 30 days, when shipping can take up to 42 does is unreasonable, especially since he was aware of the delivery time frame.

Seems like there are a few "bad" buyers out there lately
No doubt - 6 weeks is certainly a frustrating delay. Of course, it has only been 4 so far. Even that is frustrating I'm sure - but still well within the delivery standard.
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Old 12-02-2011, 04:13 PM #5
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Default Re: Bad Selling Experience with "Electron"

Most postal delivery systems/companies also have that +/- 2 weeks addition too.
If you have proof that the "regular" time is 5 weeks then you should expect between 3 and 7 for delivery.
And when crossing international borders there is another 2 weeks of delay that they can "explain" is reasonable.
Under the circumstances, a regular post international delivery of a parcel at this time of year I would expect to take, at the best, 4 weeks but more than likely 5-6 weeks. If you happen to be the lucky one (like I usually am) don't be surprised by 8 weeks.

Starting a dispute after 4 ?!?
That's just malicious.
Next he is going to complain that it wasn't gift wrapped...
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Old 12-02-2011, 04:21 PM #6
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Default Re: Bad Selling Experience with "Electron"

Personally I wouldn't/won't file a dispute for non delivery until at least 40 days from the order have passed.

Unfortunately paypal only gives 45 days to file a dispute which is problematic sometimes.
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Old 12-02-2011, 04:30 PM #7
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Default Re: Bad Selling Experience with "Electron"

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShortyInCanada View Post
Most postal delivery systems/companies also have that +/- 2 weeks addition too.
If you have proof that the "regular" time is 5 weeks then you should expect between 3 and 7 for delivery.
And when crossing international borders there is another 2 weeks of delay that they can "explain" is reasonable.
Under the circumstances, a regular post international delivery of a parcel at this time of year I would expect to take, at the best, 4 weeks but more than likely 5-6 weeks. If you happen to be the lucky one (like I usually am) don't be surprised by 8 weeks.

Starting a dispute after 4 ?!?
That's just malicious.
Next he is going to complain that it wasn't gift wrapped...
I know - and I even linked him to proof of the delivery standard here:
Canada Post - Delivery Standards
"4 to 6 weeks"

He hasn't actually responded to any of my PMs either, nor to my comments in the Paypal dispute (EDIT: My mistake on this point, I'm realizing now that I hadn't actually hit "confirm" on my Paypal dispute message until some time later). But it has been complete PM silence since his initial message to me.

In retrospect, I realize that there are some signs that I shouldn't have dealt with him in the first place. He's got a neg-rep from TJ that I just checked out, and it really does lead to some obnoxious behavior. Had I done my due diligence and read up on this guy, I never would have sold to him.

So, perhaps lesson learned.
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Old 12-02-2011, 04:53 PM #8
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Default Re: Bad Selling Experience with "Electron"

Some people out there just aren't happy unless they are bitching about something... Then there's this guy who wants to blame you for the shortcomings of the delivery system, even after you clearly stated the delivery time.

It takes all kinds I guess.
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Old 12-02-2011, 05:23 PM #9
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Default Re: Bad Selling Experience with "Electron"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostchrome View Post
Some people out there just aren't happy unless they are bitching about something... Then there's this guy who wants to blame you for the shortcomings of the delivery system, even after you clearly stated the delivery time.

It takes all kinds I guess.
I've never dealt with Electron, and I want to make it clear that i'm not making any sort of statement on him since I haven't ever dealt with him, but I am making a nod to your statement here in general.

I've found in dealing with people in both my primary work and my own self-owned business, there are some people who absolutely feel that they have not gotten their 'share' unless they've haggled/bargained/contested/complained or otherwise tried to get more out of the sum of the deal than was originally agreed upon. I've seen this more and more lately, the notion that they just have to get a little "something extra", or at least try to, no matter what.

I know for a fact that there are people who dispute payments on purchases as a matter of course. It's a "Can't hurt to try!" attitude with them, and if 1 out of 10 times they end up with a resolution in their favor, well, they come out ahead. I'm NOT saying that Electron is this sort of person, again, i'm just concurring with Ghostchrome that this is something to be aware of.

The other side of it is possibly simply just an anger reaction in not receiving what they paid for. (Or not wanting to wait for it.) Two of the warning phrases I hear from customers that I know are going to be problems are "I am not a very patient person" , or "I am a very picky person." I think the strangest was when a potential customer was opening a commission with me and he began speaking about himself in the third person, along the lines of, "Randy is a very picky person, and Randy doesn't like to wait. Randy is very hard to satisfy and Randy will expect you to go above and beyond."

Needless to say, Randy didn't get my services. He reacted as if I was absolutely out of my mind to not take his dollars and change, but some potential business engagements just are not worth the headache. Maybe customers like this are trying to 'set up expectations', and, honestly they SHOULDN'T have to wait undue amounts of time, and the product SHOULD be as described, but the problem is, that people like this have vastly different concepts of, for example, "waiting" and "time" than you or I may.


In another thread I know it was mentioned that eBay considers it the seller's responsibility to get the item there 'no matter what'; but in reality there's some gray there (there has to be) - because there are simply some things that the seller/shipper can't control. I try to understand that "shit happens", and if someone isn't outright scamming me, I don't feel that they should take the full fall for "shit happening". Many people don't feel that way, and put a given chunk of cash above all else: reputation, relationships (business or otherwise), and civility.

On a forum like this, versus ebay, the sellers and buyers are pretty much never nameless and faceless. It seems to me that RHD was willing to work out something outside of a Paypal dispute, which is really the best way to go in a venue like this. (An eBay seller who you've never met before, who may never reply to messages? That's a different story.)

The funny thing is, as far as I know, paypal disputes outside of eBay are not binding. Maybe that's changed. If it has, I wonder how PayPal handles the multitudes of personal disputes over $20 that likely happen.
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Old 12-02-2011, 05:30 PM #10
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Default Re: Bad Selling Experience with "Electron"

Just to be fair, neg-rep can indicate a number of different reasons for a person to be negative. A series of bad luck events, a young and inexperienced attitude, or just a bad tempered individual could be responsible. So be careful with comments on character...
But he definitely is coming across as one of those types that seems to think that they are entitled to everything being perfect or, at least, better than it is for others.
Whatever became of the use of patience ?

So let PayPal do their thing and wash your hands of him. When it shows up and they say "Nothing we can do." maybe he might learn something.
Let this posting be his legacy.
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Old 12-02-2011, 05:47 PM #11
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Default Re: Bad Selling Experience with "Electron"

Sorry this has happened, hopefully the item shows up and all is well. I have also had some bad experiences in the past, some that were legit lost packages and some were buyers that jumped the gun on disputes. As a result I now only offer tracked/guaranteed shipping on anything I sell unless it's someone I really know and trust.
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Old 12-02-2011, 05:48 PM #12
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Default Re: Bad Selling Experience with "Electron"

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Originally Posted by ShortyInCanada View Post
Just to be fair, neg-rep can indicate a number of different reasons for a person to be negative. A series of bad luck events, a young and inexperienced attitude, or just a bad tempered individual could be responsible. So be careful with comments on character...
Oh sorry - yes I agree 100%. I would never just take a -neg rep to indicate something negative about someone's character. I'm sure we've all had -neg reps (I have) at various points in time.

What I was trying to say was that if I had done my homework on this guy, I would have actually noticed the -neg reps, and read the posts they related to, in context, ahead of time. If I had (in this case), it would have raised the red-flag. In other words, the -neg rep wasn't the warning sign, but the underlying comment sure as heck would have been. It was this comment here, about another respected forum member, that I should have seen:
Nova Lasers Price Drops!

Had I seen this ahead of time, I would have known not to deal with this guy, and would have outright refused the sale on principal.
- I'm not just saying so in retrospect. I've done this many times. I've had sale threads up, people have asked to purchase something, and I've turned them down after snooping into their comments on other threads, and their general demeanor.
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- Federal Aviation Administration - Laser Safety Initiative (link)
- Info release from Laserglow - Default Canadian restrictions on portable lasers (link)
- The Necessity of Safety Goggles (link)


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Old 12-02-2011, 06:06 PM #13
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Default Re: Bad Selling Experience with "Electron"

Quote:
Originally Posted by aryntha View Post
"Randy is a very picky person, and Randy doesn't like to wait. Randy is very hard to satisfy and Randy will expect you to go above and beyond."
That just made me

I also run into this at work on a weekly basis. People pay for a service and they get the service. If they want more... great... here's an invoice

Btw, about paypal, afaik there is only protection for non delivery outside of ebay.
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Old 12-02-2011, 06:11 PM #14
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Default Re: Bad Selling Experience with "Electron"

Quote:
Originally Posted by InfinitusEquitas View Post
I also run into this at work on a weekly basis. People pay for a service and they get the service. If they want more... great... here's an invoice
NSFW, but germane:

link.

In any case, it'll be interesting to see what happens when/if (likely when) Electron does receive the item. RHD, it wasn't expedited -- but was it at least trackable or proof-of-delivery?
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Last edited by aryntha; 12-02-2011 at 06:15 PM.
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Old 12-02-2011, 06:20 PM #15
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Default Re: Bad Selling Experience with "Electron"

Quote:
Originally Posted by aryntha View Post
NSFW, but germane:

link.

In any case, it'll be interesting to see what happens when/if (likely when) Electron does receive the item. RHD, it wasn't expedited -- but was it at least trackable or proof-of-delivery?
Nice... reading through it slowly.

Short of ****, there are no off limit topics at work for me
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Old 12-02-2011, 06:25 PM #16
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Default Re: Bad Selling Experience with "Electron"

Quote:
Originally Posted by aryntha View Post
NSFW, but germane:

link.

In any case, it'll be interesting to see what happens when/if (likely when) Electron does receive the item. RHD, it wasn't expedited -- but was it at least trackable or proof-of-delivery?
Nope, it wasn't unfortunately. It was partially insured, but unfortunately not trackable. That said, I have proof of shipment, stamped by the post office, but not tracking.
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SAFETY & IMPORTANT READING (threads authored and contributed to by various members of LPF):
- Federal Aviation Administration - Laser Safety Initiative (link)
- Info release from Laserglow - Default Canadian restrictions on portable lasers (link)
- The Necessity of Safety Goggles (link)

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