ALERT: Bad Selling Experience with "Electron"

electron · Dec 8, 2011

ShortyInCanada said:
WOW.
3 pages here to get you guys talking it out...
Even if in a slightly less than friendly way. (Just the feeling from reading it all.)

From "electron"'s point of view if the circumstances are as he make them out to be I can see somewhat how he did as he has. If he didn't get or see a communication or two from RHD then it would make a bit more sense. It still seems a bit premature to have initiated a claim, in my opinion as a shipper/receiver for almost 15 years now.
I'm not sure what kind of blessed place you live in that most of your international deliveries arrive in 4 weeks or less but it must be something special. I work for a company that regularly receives international shipments in anywhere from 4 to (let's see...6 months or half a year for a few of the worst case times...) 26 weeks. And these come from regular suppliers with frequent shipments to a business that does thousands of dollars every month with them. The "Regular" time frame for all deliveries from abroad is "six to eight weeks." That is standard for all businesses that I have worked with in the last 15 years.
Modern tracking and competition from various carriers has made things a bit faster for a lot of things but the old time schedule is still the best policy for ordering as it allows a little extra in case of delays. But that's just business norms or standards.

From RHD's perspective, and from his reputation here at LPF which can be easily searched and found in all the postings, I can also see that he has been forward and, to a point, overly communicative with you. He has tried to give you what you want while being careful to limit his own exposure. If you didn't get something he emailed/PM'd there is no way for him to know that. As he is more aware of the shortcomings of our own postal service and their operations you should have considered his appraisal perhaps a bit more or at least tried to confirm/disprove his suggested delivery times. This would mean looking up Canada Post info yourself AFTER you contacted your own postal department. (No country can tell you how the other one's governmental employees work. There will be some sluggish similarities but the union appointed details can defy description and not be understood well.)

There have been assumptions made by both sides and this has turned into problems for you both. (See ! I'm not taking a side here. It's the same as always when a dispute arises. You are both to blame to some respect. How much for each is up to you to decide. Then you usually can figure out a solution too.)

I hope you two can come to some suitable conclusion soon and this thread can be closed.
It isn't making for good reading anymore.

:yabbmad:
(Grumpy face)

I understand what you are saying about not taking sides and trying to be impartial towards both parties...I appreciate that, I'm growing tired of a buyer being beat-up for buying something and then everything is that persons fault if something goes a stray, and I'm not the only buyer here this has happened.

You did mention you been shipping for 15 years and International packages take 4 weeks ( I hope I got that correct).

Anyway not to take up too much of your time reading all of this, as I'm tired of it too. But I really wasn't kidding about has fast I get International packages, and while I think it's nice where I live there is nothing magically about this place (no pun intended).

That is why I said someone else's experience at their address may be different, I can only speak to my orders & address. Here's an example of an International package I ordered, I can provide many more examples, and just about everyone of them are the same to my address. I have cut out most of the cities info, and IF in doubt the tracking info is real; I would be more than happy to provide you with the live tacking number in private. I never post tracking numbers, period. Being the season it is I have close to a dozen packages sitting here, all International, all pretty much the same results, plus or minus a day or two.

Detailed Results:

Delivered, December 05, 2011, 1:42 pm

Arrival at Unit, December 05, 2011, 8:23 am

Processed through USPS Sort Facility, December 03, 2011, 7:52 pm

Processed through USPS Sort Facility, December 03, 2011, 3:20 am, OPA LOCKA, FL 33054

Depart USPS Sort Facility, December 02, 2011

Processed through USPS Sort Facility, December 01, 2011

Processed Through Sort Facility, November 27, 2011, 7:48 am, HONG KONG, HONG KONG

Origin Post is Preparing Shipment

Acceptance, November 24, 2011, 4:53 pm, HONG KONG

This was NOT an Express parcel, I get those in 3 days.

rhd · Dec 8, 2011

Electron, you provided a bunch of examples of TRACKED packages. Of course those reach you faster. If i had sent this with tracked shipping (the cheapest of which is called "Expedited Parcel") you'd have it in about two weeks also.

In the future, thanks to this, I am only going to allow buyers to pay for $20 tracked shipping.

But, enjoy the laser. If you don't have it already, you will shortly.

ShortyInCanada · Dec 8, 2011

4 weeks for an international shipment is an incredibly rare occurrence. It does happen enough that it can't be discounted, but not near enough to expect it. And I live just outside the YVR (Vancouver) hub which is one of the primary ones for shipments from China. (and Asia)
The usual times for shipments are 6 to 8 weeks. And that is for regular business products.
As North American Customs offices are becoming more and more wary of lasers and laser products they can easily be delayed by another couple of weeks while the people in that particular office try to find out and then figure out the regulations/instructions concerning this developing issue.

As far as your examples : without destination (main transportation hub) info it would be hard to determine why your shipments are so fast in arriving. Having that info really isn't necessary. Sometimes it is because the main sorting facility for a carrier is near your destination so the packages don't have to make as many stops before getting delivered. Sometimes it is because you have attained a level of shipping that automatically bumps you to another level of service with the benefit of streamlining your deliveries. (Think that because you get a certain number of items from the same place, like China, per month that the carriers start to recognize your name/account number/address and your history allows them to pass more items through faster without inspection/scrutinization that would usually slow the process down. You become familiar to them and you get a better level of service. It happens all the time.)
There are many other factors that could be working to your advantage with your other shipments that DON'T apply to a single personalized shipment from a residence in Canada with a possibly restricted item inside.
From reading a lot of other posts here over the last couple of months the number of problems with lasers over the border are growing quickly. That is for both ways !

I think you are very fortunate to get your shipments that fast.
As it is now December, from experience I would be unable to guess at a delivery time for any package. Some will be super fast as extra staff are hired for X-mas. Other may take forever as they were outside of the normal types.

But I hope you guys can work this out.

Gotta go.

bootleg2go · Dec 8, 2011

I just read all of this and want to put in my comments.
1. USPS requires a signature for for any package insured for over $200, not $300; not that it even matters in this case.
2. If the seller did insure the package, then their is always a number to track the package with. (not sure if it was insured or not as I didn't see mention of a tracking number.
3. Sometimes packages get lost and take a long time, this is why they should have tracking at least it proves if the package ever gets to where it's going and possible places along the way it where it may have gotten lost or delayed.

I've had a package I sent priority to Canada that took 6 weeks to get their (slower than if it went by bicycle). I had a customer send their laser to me for repair from France that took nearly 2 months to get to me.
Had one fellow about a year ago send his pointer back for cleaning or something (don't remember the reason he sent it back) from WA state and it still hasn't gotten to me after nearly year. I told him to send it with signature or delivery confirmation, but he didn't. That said it may arrive someday...as last march a priority package arrived in my PO and it looked beat to hell. The name on it looked familiar, but I didn't remember send it out the week before...it was upon closer inspection that it had the previous year on the march date. I had since sent them another one after this one didn't show up and a year later after bouncing around the world who knows how many times, it came back to me.

Lastly, I want to say that Electron is not a scammer of any kind, he's a very honest guy. He's bought several grand worth of Optotronics products from us, sent things back for repair when needed and even became good friends over the phone.
I have no doubt that if Electron says he didn't get the package, then it hasn't arrived yet.
I also have no doubts that if the item arrives after he gets a refund from PP, he will contact the seller and resend the funds to him.

So rhd, there is no need to worry if the item is insured, if Electron gets it, he will pay you for it if PP has refunded him. If it's not insured and he doesn't get the package, then maybe someday it will get returned to you from the post office.

I think this could be a good lesson to anyone selling and shipping an item that you need to get a tracking number added at the very least and signature if possible. It only costs a few bucks and if you can't prove delivery to the CC companies or PP, you don't have a chance as proof of shipment isn't good enough...the goods have to be delivered.
Merry Christmas to you Joe and to you as well rhd.

rhd · Dec 8, 2011

Hey bootleg,
Thanks for your input, it's reassuring to think that maybe the money he took back might not really be lost forever. I won't hold my breath, but it sure would be nice if you're correct.

A couple mistakes in your comment though:

- It is NOT true that to carry $100 of insurance implies a tracking number. It does not. Ground parcel with Canada Post is not trackable, but you get $100 of insurance, and absolutely no unique number applies. I don't know why your Canada Post outlet would have you believe otherwise, but this is how it works. What city / province are you in? It doesn't say on your profile.

- I actually agree that adding tracking is the way to go. After this ordeal, I'll never use anything else. But I don't know where you get the idea that it's just a few bucks extra ?!?!? For me to ship a bubble mailer to the US, tracking changes the price from about $8, to almost $20. For a box, it can kick the price from $10 up to $25. Don't even ask about international. A bubble mailer to France is about $10 for untracked air parcel. To go for a tracked option pushes it to $58.

So again, I'm not sure where you're getting your info from, but it's way off base from reality. I AM going to insist on tracking in the future, but your comment that it only adds a few bucks is WAY off - unless you just live near a really awesome CanadaPost or something !

bootleg2go · Dec 8, 2011

rhd said:
Hey bootleg,
Thanks for your input, it's reassuring to think that maybe the money he took back might not really be lost forever. I won't hold my breath, but it sure would be nice if you're correct.

A couple mistakes in your comment though:

- It is NOT true that to carry $100 of insurance implies a tracking number. It does not. Ground parcel with Canada Post is not trackable, but you get $100 of insurance, and absolutely no unique number applies. I don't know why your Canada Post outlet would have you believe otherwise, but this is how it works. What city / province are you in? It doesn't say on your profile.

- I actually agree that adding tracking is the way to go. After this ordeal, I'll never use anything else. But I don't know where you get the idea that it's just a few bucks extra ?!?!? For me to ship a bubble mailer to the US, tracking changes the price from about $8, to almost $20. For a box, it can kick the price from $10 up to $25. Don't even ask about international. A bubble mailer to France is about $10 for untracked air parcel. To go for a tracked option pushes it to $58.

So again, I'm not sure where you're getting your info from, but it's way off base from reality. I AM going to insist on tracking in the future, but your comment that it only adds a few bucks is WAY off - unless you just live near a really awesome CanadaPost or something !

I'm in the USA, so I don't use Canada post and don't look up their prices too often but I did look up a price the other day to send a 4 or 5lb package to me by the xpresspost international option which includes tracking and it was around $35 (probably 35 Canadian I' sure)
Anyway, they must have some way to track and prove delivery for packages of $100...otherwise people would be sending packages and making tons of claims if the CanadaPost cannot track and prove the item was delivered.

I just looked at the website and you're right about the insurance, but it also showsall of the shipping options to the USA and none of them are shown as taking more than 4-6 business days. The 4-6 weeks is for non-USA international packages.
http://www.canadapost.ca/cpo/mc/personal/productsservices/send/parcels.jsf

rhd · Dec 8, 2011

bootleg2go said:
I'm in the USA, so I don't use Canada post and don't look up their prices too often but I did look up a price the other day to send a 4 or 5lb package to me by the xpresspost international option which includes tracking and it was around $35 (probably 35 Canadian I' sure)
Anyway, they must have some way to track and prove delivery for packages of $100...otherwise people would be sending packages and making tons of claims if the CanadaPost cannot track and prove the item was delivered.

You would think so, but they really don't.

In fact, want to hear the weirdest thing?

If you use Paypal to buy Canada Post shipping, and you go with the super cheap ground parcel, and then print your postage, there's nothing unique on the postage printout! There's nothing on the sheet you print out of your own printer to identify that the postage you printed is real, and not a photocopy of the shipping sheet you printed a week earlier.

For clarity, that's not how I shipped the package in this thread. But it's a great example of how CP works. I honest to God spent 15 minutes this summer at the post office just trying to get them to explain to me how they knew the postage printout i had taped to a package was legit without and numbers or barcodes on it anywhere. The answer was basically "We don't / can't"

Anyway, no numbers. For real. $100 insurance, no unique parcel numbers or identifiers, really.

electron · Dec 8, 2011

Wow! Thanks for posting the info for Canada Post bootleg2go :yh:, so it really only takes 4-6 business days to reach the USA. You know I told him how fast I get stuff from Nova in Canada too, but he tired to claim it's because they are closer to the States than he is or something like; and wanted me to wait 90 days! :wtf:

Now I really know why Nova's stuff arrives like it does, it's because it's suppose to! Oh and as for the package only being insured by default of $100, I guess that is my fault too, Huh? So you took the shipping money you charged me and decided that $100 for default insurance (FREE) was good enough for YOU, and put the savings in your pocket and then you come on here and cry about it. :cryyy:

That was your decision about skimping on the insurance. You want to tell us how much it actually cost you to ship the package? (I can check with CP later on) I'd seriously bet it was about half the amount I sent you for shipping charges, not to mention the profit you made off the home made laser itself.

I shipped a return item last week myself, 3000 miles away and we DON'T get *any* insurance for free here, I insured it for the full value of $200.00 and I'd to go and get my receipt, but it only added a couple of bucks extra to the postage AND yes I can provide a scan of it if you don't believe me. But yea I know it probably cost more with CP, right??? and yet you still didn't cover for it......my fault the package didn't arrive?? my fault you charged me for shipping and didn't properly insure it?? my fault you have LIED to the members on this forum by quoting International shipping time to around the world (which don't take that long as I already proved) rather than quoting the time as stated by CP for the USA, you do know Canada is located in North America, same as the Great Country USA and doesn't have to cross the big pond??

So it looks like from what I read on here about the dollar threshold on signing requirements, IF you properly insured it for $225 that you charged me for the laser PLUS additional for shipping, it would have to be TRACEABLE and SIGNED for upon arrival, Blame me all you wish for your actions/in-actions which I've had no control over any of these events of shipping. :tsk:

Yea I'm so hard-up for a couple hundred bucks

NOT; that I made this whole mess??? NO you made this mess NOT me. :tsk: You've got NO idea about how much discretionary money I have to spend, and that is the only funds I spend on toys. I've wasted more time trying to keep up with these stupid rants of yours than what I spent on your toy, time is money and my time to be able to go online is limited; it's more about the principal of the false picture :yabbmad: you are trying to paint of me, when you've caused most of this mess.:tsk: Just because I could afford to loose the money, doesn't mean I don't care about the funds.

Have a good day, I've got to go now, I won't be able to get back on today, so I'll check you later. :san:

bootleg2go · Dec 8, 2011

electron said:
Wow! Thanks for posting the info for Canada Post bootleg2go :yh:, so it really only takes 4-6 business days to reach the USA. You know I told him how fast I get stuff from Nova in Canada too, but he tired to claim it's because they are closer to the States than he is or something like; and wanted me to wait 90 days! :wtf:

Now I really know why Nova's stuff arrives like it does, it's because it's suppose to! Oh and as for the package only being insured by default of $100, I guess that is my fault too, Huh? So you took the shipping money you charged me and decided that $100 for default insurance (FREE) was good enough for YOU, and put the savings in your pocket and then you come on here and cry about it. :cryyy:

That was your decision about skimping on the insurance. You want to tell us how much it actually cost you to ship the package? (I can check with CP later on) I'd seriously bet it was about half the amount I sent you for shipping charges, not to mention the profit you made off the home made laser itself.

I shipped a return item last week myself, 3000 miles away and we DON'T get *any* insurance for free here, I insured it for the full value of $200.00 and I'd to go and get my receipt, but it only added a couple of bucks extra to the postage AND yes I can provide a scan of it if you don't believe me. But yea I know it probably cost more with CP, right??? and yet you still didn't cover for it......my fault the package didn't arrive?? my fault you charged me for shipping and didn't properly insure it?? my fault you have LIED to the members on this forum by quoting International shipping time to around the world (which don't take that long as I already proved) rather than quoting the time as stated by CP for the USA, you do know Canada is located in North America, same as the Great Country USA and doesn't have to cross the big pond??

So it looks like from what I read on here about the dollar threshold on signing requirements, IF you properly insured it for $225 that you charged me for the laser PLUS additional for shipping, it would have to be TRACEABLE and SIGNED for upon arrival, Blame me all you wish for your actions/in-actions which I've had no control over any of these events of shipping. :tsk:

Yea I'm so hard-up for a couple hundred bucks NOT; that I made this whole mess??? NO you made this mess NOT me. :tsk: You've got NO idea about how much discretionary money I have to spend, and that is the only funds I spend on toys. I've wasted more time trying to keep up with these stupid rants of yours than what I spent on your toy, time is money and my time to be able to go online is limited; it's more about the principal of the false picture :yabbmad: you are trying to paint of me, when you've caused most of this mess.:tsk: Just because I could afford to loose the money, doesn't mean I don't care about the funds.

Have a good day, I've got to go now, I won't be able to get back on today, so I'll check you later. :san:

The 4-6 business days is just an expected time/typical time. Canadapost doesn't have control over how long the item spends in customs, they just use the average time I suppose. If US customs gets and opens the package and it's contents dfon't match the shipper description and have the correct paperwork for clearance, it can take some time for the package to get returned to the shipper if it does at all.
I can't say what the policy is for Canadapost, but with the USPS package if it's shipped express service, then it will genreally get returned to the shipper, if it's sent priority, then there is an option checkbox that the shipper has to check stating that the shipper is will to cover the return shipping cost otherwise it will just get tossed I suppose.

So it's still possible it can arrive even though it's 4-6 business day service (this doesn't matter if the package is going from hudson bay way up north to Hawaii or making a 20 mile trip across the border) as things can get backed up this time of year and I've had things get lost and take weeks enough though it was a 2-3 day service.

lasersbee · Dec 8, 2011

I've been shipping all over the globe for near 4 years now
exclusively by Canada Post...

I'm ammazed that 2 members that live in the states can be so precise
on how long it takes a Canada Post posted package to arrive...

I've stated it numerous times in my sales threads that shipping
times to the USA can take 10 to 15 business days to arrive IF
the USA Customs services don't hold it up.
And that is from personal experience over the past 4 years...

It takes about the same time from the USA to Canada with standard
(not Express/expensive) shipping.
I've seen packages arrive up to 8 weeks later to the USA when the
USPS had misplaced them..

That is a far cry from 4-6 DAYS

The point is that the buyer had 45 days to open just a Dispute let
alone a Claim that could then be opened a few weeks later.
The buyer could have easily given the Forum Community seller (with
a good reputation) a break and wait a bit longer for the package to
arrive rather than jump the gun... since the communication line were
still open..

That is the only thing that seems to bother the members here... I know
it is the only thing that bothers me...

Jerry

rhd · Dec 8, 2011

electron said:
Wow! Thanks for posting the info for Canada Post bootleg2go, so it really only takes 4-6 business days to reach the USA. You know I told him how fast I get stuff from Nova in Canada too, but he tired to claim it's because they are closer to the States than he is or something like; and wanted me to wait 90 days!

bootleg2go said:
The 4-6 business days is just an expected time/typical time. Canadapost doesn't have control over how long the item spends in customs, they just use the average time I suppose. If US customs gets and opens the package and it's contents dfon't match the shipper description and have the correct paperwork for clearance, it can take some time for the package to get returned to the shipper if it does at all.
I can't say what the policy is for Canadapost, but with the USPS package if it's shipped express service, then it will genreally get returned to the shipper, if it's sent priority, then there is an option checkbox that the shipper has to check stating that the shipper is will to cover the return shipping cost otherwise it will just get tossed I suppose.

With respect to both of you, this is NOT TRUE. It is not the case that the "expected time / typical time" is 4-6 business days. If you send it Expedited, then you get 4 to 6 business days, which is close to this, but you DO NOT get the expedited parcel standards for a regular parcel (obviously). If there is any doubt, just go to the Canada Post delivery standards page:
Canada Post - Delivery Standards And delivery "standards" aren't the same as "guarantees" that you get with trackable products either. So a "standard" itself may not even give a long enough picture. With respect, you're both in "la la land" if you think 4 to 6 DAYS is either the expected OR the typical. It is NEITHER of those things. CanadaPost doesn't PRETEND it to be either of those things, and members here have already comments that IN PRACTICE it is neither of those things. If you don't trust CanadaPost's website, then I don't know what to tell you. Call them: 1-800-267-1177

electron said:
So you took the shipping money you charged me and decided that $100 for default insurance (FREE) was good enough for YOU, and put the savings in your pocket and then you come on here and cry about it. :cryyy:

As mentioned $100 is enough to cover, on my end, replacement of a lost laser. And as mentioned, I was more than happy to do this if your laser truly ended up lost.

electron said:
That was your decision about skimping on the insurance. You want to tell us how much it actually cost you to ship the package? (I can check with CP later on) I'd seriously bet it was about half the amount I sent you for shipping charges, not to mention the profit you made off the home made laser itself.

I charged you $10 for shipping. You think there was extra left over from that? If anything, I probably undercharged you for shipping. Again, with respect, neither of you seem in touch with the reality of shipping from Canada.

electron said:
I shipped a return item last week myself, 3000 miles away and we DON'T get *any* insurance for free here, I insured it for the full value of $200.00 and I'd to go and get my receipt, but it only added a couple of bucks extra to the postage AND yes I can provide a scan of it if you don't believe me. But yea I know it probably cost more with CP, right??? and yet you still didn't cover for it......my fault the package didn't arrive?? my fault you charged me for shipping and didn't properly insure it?? my fault you have LIED to the members on this forum by quoting International shipping time to around the world (which don't take that long as I already proved) rather than quoting the time as stated by CP for the USA, you do know Canada is located in North America, same as the Great Country USA and doesn't have to cross the big pond??

With respect, you're an idiot.

This isn't about fault. This never was about fault. I never MADE IT about fault. I never suggested that you were to blame for the package potentially not showing up (if it really didn't). This isn't an issue of a seller not working with a buyer. This is an issue of a buyer not giving the seller a chance to work with them.

electron said:
So it looks like from what I read on here about the dollar threshold on signing requirements, IF you properly insured it for $225 that you charged me for the laser PLUS additional for shipping, it would have to be TRACEABLE and SIGNED for upon arrival, Blame me all you wish for your actions/in-actions which I've had no control over any of these events of shipping. :tsk:

Incorrect. First of all, and this may not sit well with the forum, but there is almost no chance that ANY of the insurance that anyone puts on these packages is actually collectible. The reason? Part of the insurance clause requires that the package NOT have any import restrictions in the destination country. If it does, then no lost package coverage, even if it was purchased ahead of time. Insuring for the cost of the parts only, so that I could replace it if lost, is an attempt to make the insurance work despite this issue with your country's import restrictions. But, I'm not counting on it, and it certainly wouldn't work to try and claim a full $225 had it been insured as an entire working unit.

Further, whether it was insured for $100 or $1500 should make a difference to you, since on your end, I openly/happily/clearly offered to completely replace your item.

electron said:
Yea I'm so hard-up for a couple hundred bucks NOT; that I made this whole mess??? NO you made this mess NOT me. :tsk: You've got NO idea about how much discretionary money I have to spend, and that is the only funds I spend on toys. I've wasted more time trying to keep up with these stupid rants of yours than what I spent on your toy, time is money and my time to be able to go online is limited; it's more about the principal of the false picture :yabbmad: you are trying to paint of me, when you've caused most of this mess.:tsk: Just because I could afford to loose the money, doesn't mean I don't care about the funds.

That's fantastic for you, and we're all VERY impressed by your large piggy bank

I couldn't care less how much discretionary money you have to spend. Though I would note that if I had a track record of unethically disputing charges for items I've ordered, the way you do, I'd probably have more of it too

Guyfromhe · Dec 8, 2011

I find it hard to believe that 4-6 days time for a ground parcel...
It takes 7+ days for airmail when I send or receive from/to the US.
I am now at 11 shipping days waiting for a package from the US sent airmail.

As far as the insurance RHD said he could make another for you with the $100 he had so as the buyer that's all that should matter, as long as he gets your laser to you it doesn't matter what he insured it for.

Also seeing as how you guys are in the US you've never had to deal directly with CP before you don't know how much their website lies and how much they actually charge.

There's a reason shipping is often free or $5 when buying online in the states and $20-35 when shipping to/from Canada.

USPS != Canada Post.

bootleg2go · Dec 8, 2011

rhd said:
With respect to both of you, this is NOT TRUE. It is not the case that the "expected time / typical time" is 4-6 business days. If you send it Expedited, then you get 4 to 6 business days, which is close to this, but you DO NOT get the expedited parcel standards for a regular parcel (obviously). If there is any doubt, just go to the Canada Post delivery standards page:
Canada Post - Delivery Standards And delivery "standards" aren't the same as "guarantees" that you get with trackable products either. So a "standard" itself may not even give a long enough picture. With respect, you're both in "la la land" if you think 4 to 6 DAYS is either the expected OR the typical. It is NEITHER of those things. CanadaPost doesn't PRETEND it to be either of those things, and members here have already comments that IN PRACTICE it is neither of those things. If you don't trust CanadaPost's website, then I don't know what to tell you. Call them: 1-800-267-1177

As mentioned $100 is enough to cover, on my end, replacement of a lost laser. And as mentioned, I was more than happy to do this if your laser truly ended up lost.

I charged you $10 for shipping. You think there was extra left over from that? If anything, I probably undercharged you for shipping. Again, with respect, neither of you seem in touch with the reality of shipping from Canada.

With respect, you're an idiot.

This isn't about fault. This never was about fault. I never MADE IT about fault. I never suggested that you were to blame for the package potentially not showing up (if it really didn't). This isn't an issue of a seller not working with a buyer. This is an issue of a buyer not giving the seller a chance to work with them.

Incorrect. First of all, and this may not sit well with the forum, but there is almost no chance that ANY of the insurance that anyone puts on these packages is actually collectible. The reason? Part of the insurance clause requires that the package NOT have any import restrictions in the destination country. If it does, then no lost package coverage, even if it was purchased ahead of time. Insuring for the cost of the parts only, so that I could replace it if lost, is an attempt to make the insurance work despite this issue with your country's import restrictions. But, I'm not counting on it, and it certainly wouldn't work to try and claim a full $225 had it been insured as an entire working unit.

Further, whether it was insured for $100 or $1500 should make a difference to you, since on your end, I openly/happily/clearly offered to completely replace your item.

That's fantastic for you, and we're all VERY impressed by your large piggy bank

I couldn't care less how much discretionary money you have to spend. Though I would note that if I had a track record of unethically disputing charges for items I've ordered, the way you do, I'd probably have more of it too

Hi rhd,
The 4-6 days I mentioned was taken from the link I found on the CP website and posted that link. I did add that customs can affect that time and add to it.
You found a link on the CP website that gave a longer time of 15 days or so and that too could be added to if their are customs issues or if it gets lost in transit.
Since I'm in USA I have never shipped with CP, but have received packages though them, they have taken a week or so to get to me, but that means nothing as it's a small sample size and they might have flew through customs.

On the other hand, I've sent tons of packages with USPS and countless numbers to Canada....I guess that doesn't matter either as it's USPS not CP.

I feel for both of you.
Electron is one of my best and most trusted customers.
I don't know you rhd, but you are the seller, like myself and I've had bad things happen to me, so I can empathize with your situation.

As far as insurance, since they cannot find the package or it's lost, they can only go by what you said the contents were, so I don' t think it being a disallowed item will matter as I'm sure you didn't label it as a laser. That said if CP is anything like USPS, then getting money from them is a long process (but easier if the item is lost rather than damaged).
The USPS process for non-express is wait 30 days (for international) before filing the paperwork to get it started. They investigate for a couple weeks and then payment can take another month or more.

I know that hindsight is 20:20, but I learned the hard way a long time ago to not ship internationally by the cheapest service, and sorry to say I didn't learn it the 1st time it happened to me, it took a few times for me to learn my lesson.

AT USPS there is a cheap international service called the "small flat rate: box which will ship up to 4lbs if it fits in the small box to anywhere in the world for about $13. The only trouble is that it's not trackable and insurance is not allowed.
What had happened is that I would drop the package in the mail and to limbo it went. (this is what happened to that package I spoke of earlier that took a year to get back to me), some I don;t know if they got their or not as there was no tracking and when the customer complained about not getting their package, I have no choice but to send another, but I did make them wait for 30 days at least to see if it ever arrived and just trusted them to be honest, sometimes they arrived 30-45 days, sometimes never. It's even happened with the more expensive regular priority or express service, but at least there I have proof of shipment and some tracking as they do get scanned up to the point they are lost.

Anyway, enough of my rambling, I've got packages to ship.
I hope all works out for both of you and hopefully you learn the lesson of cheap non-tracked shipping this 1st time and not after several times like it took me.

rhd · Dec 8, 2011

The link you posted was to here:
Canada Post
And it doesn't say 4 to 6 business days, it says "in as little as 6 days".

And regardless, that's not the CP delivery standards page ANYWAY. I have linked to the actual delivery standards page here, and in my previous PMs with electron. It's much less "graphical".

You said something that resonates:
"I guess that doesn't matter either as it's USPS not CP."

I don't know if you were saying that honestly, or sarcastically, but either way, it is TRUE. CanadaPost and USPS are VERY different. They are nowhere near on par in terms of either service quality, features, speed, or cost. CanadaPost shipping to the USA costs about twice as much, takes 3 times longer, and comes with half the features of USPS shipping to Canada. Seriously.

You also mentioned:
"As far as insurance, since they cannot find the package or it's lost, they can only go by what you said the contents were, so I don' t think it being a disallowed item will matter as I'm sure you didn't label it as a laser. That said if CP is anything like USPS, then getting money from them is a long process (but easier if the item is lost rather than damaged)."

I probably declared it honestly and accurately as just "electronics". To file an insurance claim, a lot more than just what's put on the box is required. You need to provide proof of value, a detailed proof of the item's contents, origin, etc.

That said, it's actually NOT that bad trying to get money from CP for a legitimate claim. I had to do this once for a package that I had returned to a seller in the US, but never showed up. CP actually ended up covering me for the insured value AND the original cost of shipping - and it wasn't too much of a hassle. So there's one tiny small pro for CP.

But anyway, I guess more to the point - we'll find out if this is legit or not, when we find out how Electron deals with the arrival of the package

Based on his history here, I'm still not convinced that he doesn't already have it. But maybe you're right, and he really hasn't received it yet. We'll see.

bootleg2go · Dec 8, 2011

Hi rhd,
I was not using sarcasm, just being honest as the USPS and CP are totally different.
Yes, you will need to provide them with more than the electronics description you put on the airbill.
All you need to do is create an invoice (using MS word or something) and your company name like RHD enterprises or whatever you go by and submit it. It doesn't need pictures or anything, they just want the paper so it can be filed with the claim.

rhd · Dec 8, 2011

bootleg2go said:
Hi rhd,
I was not using sarcasm, just being honest as the USPS and CP are totally different.
Yes, you will need to provide them with more than the electronics description you put on the airbill.
All you need to do is create an invoice (using MS word or something) and your company name like RHD enterprises or whatever you go by and submit it. It doesn't need pictures or anything, they just want the paper so it can be filed with the claim.

It still needs to be accurately described, and I wouldn't lie.

I would be comfortable honestly listing out the component parts of a laser, and claiming the honest value of each component in order to request coverage for whatever that total value was (around $100 I suppose). However, to describe an entire $200 laser, would like disqualify coverage, and I'm not willing to falsify a statement as to the contents of a lost package, even if that would be easy to do in Word, etc. So, insuring the part-cost of the laser is what makes the most sense in terms of actually covering that package in the event of loss.

ALERT: Bad Selling Experience with "Electron"

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