Welcome to Laser Pointer Forums! If you are looking for a laser you may want to check out the database of laser pointer companies. The link will open in a new window for your convenience.

 Laser Pointer Forums - Discuss Laser Pointers High Voltage Powersupply Info Laser Pointer Company Database     Laser Top Sites List     Lasers by Type     Green Lasers

02-03-2013, 05:03 PM #1
 Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 48 Rep Power: 0
grim3271
Member

Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 48
Rep Power: 0
High Voltage Powersupply Info

This is a tutorial not a question.
DANGER: HIGH VOLTAGE CAN BE DANGEROUS IN ALL WAYS. ARCS AND SUCH CAN PRODUCE OZONE WHICH IS SERIOUSLY CORROSIVE. AND IS TOXIC. I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANYTHING YOU EVER EVER EVER DO WITH THIS INFORMATION I POSTED HERE

I don't know if this was discussed before or not. I just happen to know alot about high voltage. And it seems that you guys use high voltage for gas lasers.. So if you are interested in a DIY powersupply i can give you atleast.. Some steps..

First i don't know whether ac or dc is used with those lasers so i will post steps for booth.

First the easiest ( ADJUSTABLE OUTPUT ) the single transistor flyback transformer driver.
They commonly use a 2n3055 transistor which is dirt cheap.. The circuit is made of 3 components
2 resistors and that one transistor. The circuit is really easy to make. wont take a few mins..

Most modern flyback transformers can be had for like.. free or 1 or 2 bucks.. they output dc. For ac. You have to wind your own flyback transformers. You can just use some really simple mathematics to calculate the V/turn at a chosen frequency.. Use the frequency with the chosen driver. And voila.. If you need dc. Then be warned. The home made flyback transformer outputs in the kilo hertz range of frequency.. You can rectify it. with 4 proper diodes. And a capacitor if you desire.. But the capacitor part will be seriously hard though
For details on the single transistor driver.
POWERLABS' High Voltage Solid State Flyback Driver
Home made flyback. running on the single transistor driver i guess..
You might be wondering. I work on lasers. not with transformers..
Well

The Fryback! | Adam's Science Website

He was using the zvs driver. Made by something mazzili though.. don't remember also called the royer driver. And can be used for induction heating. too. but we will be discussing that sooner on

Here is the improved schematic for the single transistor.
2n3055 flyback driver | Kaizer Power Electronics

The double transistor flyback driver. Never tried it.
http://wiki.4hv.org/images/7/79/2n3055pushpull.gif
Virtually just like the 2n3055 driver. Just with a completely different circuit. And higher power outputs. Also this circuit is prone to failure
You can use other transistors than the 2n3055. But use stronger. Not weaker

Now adjustable frequency drivers. Those can be audio modulated. And are the best if you are willing to count the v/turn at a desirable frequency.
Simple PWM Flyback driver tutorial
Everything is stated there
Efficient PWM driver (flyback or other applications)
This to
REMEMBER.. with a modern flyback. Then high frequency is at the input. Not the output. i think though

Now the most powerful driver..
How To Build A Simple But Powerful Flyback Driver
The zvs driver. Everything is included there.

Now that is the END OF THE FLYBACK SECTION

Now to the microwave oven transformers
I was going to say the i am not responsible stuff at the beginning and at the end of the thread. But here i give you another one here because they are SO DANGEROUS One of the most dangerous things you can ever EVER mess with.. I am not responsible for your actions using this information

So as you guessed. You find those. in a microwave . You can also find a little neat inverter there. I never found one personally. so i don't really know.. But i think this should work tooo.... any way those transformers are really bulky heavy monster things. Those tiny bastards give you 2000 volts at about 500 ma. Some can spit a complete amp too. Very dangerous. You need about 10 ma to disturb the heart. ...

If you are not careful. Things like these could happen. in your brains
2 mot 6 cap sparks high voltage - YouTube

Don't get that scared. those are resonant arcs. The normal one doesn't output that. But that just gives you a idea how much to be scared of them.. The nice thing about them is that they need no driver
The maximum you can stack safely are 3 in series. Don't stack more as voltage will cause interlayer arcing. Really hot large arcs in the transformer. Btw a arc is a spark. That continues . Not for a micro second.
They output 50/60 herts

That's the end of this scary section. the mot section. In a language if you spell mot that means death

Now to a xray transformer. Those can output 160kv.. Are seriously expensive. And i doubt you would need them anyway. I never had one myself though. But i feel like i should just state it here though.

Dont read this section if you don't know what your doing. Seriously
There is a pole pig.
pole distribution transformer.
IS a transformer used to step down the high voltage from those noisy generators to a nice safe 120/220 volts at 50/60 herts

We use them in the opposite directions
instead of like 1 million volts in. and 120 out
its like 120 in and 1 million volts out. Now 1 million volts will never be the output. It's just a joke
Those monsters are filled with oil. Thier super heavy duty.
Rumors say that at resonance. Perfect unballasted resonance They output like 6 meters arcs. look but don't touch.. XD They don't need a driver though.

voltage multiplier. pulsed output. Can make a arc (continuous output) with a very high resistance resistor on the output.
High Voltage Power Supply For Marx Generator It is a voltage multiplier
MARX GENERATOR. For pulsed output only. This device is so so so so so so so so so so so so so dangerous. Capable of up to 10 million volts discharge at a few amps. Yes amps. and is capable of more too.
Build a simple Marx Generator

This is a simple quick and dirty one. If you make a dedicated one. The output is much higher. and the input shouldn't be a voltage multiplier only. IT can be a flyback transformer. Mot anything. just make sure the output of the thing to charge it is Dc

Well i can add more if you guys feel like i should.
continue
All the credit for these informations goes to the great ones who teached me.

DANGER: HIGH VOLTAGE CAN BE DANGEROUS IN ALL WAYS. ARCS AND SUCH CAN PRODUCE OZONE WHICH IS SERIOUSLY CORROSIVE. AND IS TOXIC. I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANYTHING YOU EVER EVER EVER DO WITH THIS INFORMATION I POSTED HERE
If such stuff is already posted the moderators feel free to delete.

__________________
Trying to make a laser.. Wish me luck! haha.

Building in progress..

Building almost done.

Am now getting evil.. Because first thing to be burned with the laser shall be fire works .. Specially a super nova

Last edited by daguin; 02-04-2013 at 11:29 AM. Reason: Adding stuff.

02-03-2013, 07:39 PM #2
 Class 2M Laser Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 533 Rep Power: 49
phenol
Class 2M Laser

Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 533
Rep Power: 49
Re: Gas laser powersupply

OK, many but not all tv FBTs have rectified outputs. for instance, i have an ac output flyback and i only had to add litz wire primary to drive a tv multiplier (actually 2 in parallel) powering a co2 tube in excess of 10mA

02-03-2013, 08:07 PM #3
 Class 4 Laser Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 8,852 Rep Power: 1342
Cyparagon
Class 4 Laser

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 8,852
Rep Power: 1342
Re: Gas laser powersupply

This is not a tutorial on gas laser power supplies, this is a quick explanation of a few common high voltage sources.

Most of these won't work at all for gas lasers, and the few that could, you make no mention of how to actually incorporate them with a laser.
__________________
A problem well stated is a problem half solved.

02-03-2013, 08:27 PM #4
 Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 48 Rep Power: 0
grim3271
Member

Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 48
Rep Power: 0
Re: Gas laser powersupply

Remember :P am actually with only 1 DIY red burning laser. And a busted greenie. And i though those could be helpful. Just trying to help..
__________________
Trying to make a laser.. Wish me luck! haha.

Building in progress..

Building almost done.

Am now getting evil.. Because first thing to be burned with the laser shall be fire works .. Specially a super nova

02-04-2013, 10:20 AM #5
 Class 4 Laser Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Quebec, Canada Posts: 14,823 Rep Power: 477
lasersbee
Class 4 Laser

Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 14,823
Rep Power: 477
Re: High Voltage Producing Devices Info

Interesting HV stuff.... but yeah...

I'd change the Title to something like "High Voltage
Producing Devices Info" or something similar.

The Title is misleading... I wouldn't want to use most
of those HV devices on my Laser Tubes...

Jerry

You can contact us at any time on our Website: J.BAUER Electronics
__________________

LaserBee Laser Power Meter Products meet your needs
at affordable Prices:
See then all here on LPF

LaserBee Power Meter products ALWAYS in Stock

Available on eBay:Check availability here..

Search

This banner is available to and can be copied/used FREE by any LaserBee owner

Last edited by lasersbee; 02-04-2013 at 10:22 AM.

02-04-2013, 01:56 PM #6
 Class 3R Laser Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Victoria, British Columbia Posts: 1,964 Rep Power: 286
Seoul_lasers
Class 3R Laser

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Victoria, British Columbia
Posts: 1,964
Rep Power: 286
Re: High Voltage Powersupply Info

Quite a few of us on the forum have either used HV equipment for work, or in association with gas lasers (HeNe, Ar ion..etc)
and most of us here are familiar with ZVS drivers, CW multipliers, Marx impulse generators, Tesla Coils...etc
This is not what I'd call a tutorial.
Also , please be aware for safety's sake, if you decide to use HV supplies
that you do so with someone else around.
All it takes is one accident.
HV capacitors, especially those intended for Pulse Discharge are very lethal.

Sounds like you need to do a little more reading.
__________________
650nm ~350mW DVD 20x diode RyanSoh3 Class IIIb
650nm ~350mW DVD 22x 3.5mm labby build 2010 Class IIIb
532nm 10mW-15mW DPSS Module IR filtered(S.Korea)RyanSoh3 Class IIIb
445nm 3.49W pk ~3.15W av. Sinner Cypreus II +DTR 9mm 445nm Class IV
445nm RHD Saber Twins 2.7W ~2.35W pk Class IV
445nm A140 module x2 Maxsink Class IV
405nm Daguin Kryton Groove SO6J 700mW build. Class IV
405nm Olike 560mW-600mW pen sold Scopeguy20
Class IV
337.1nm TEA Nitrogen laser project 2011 Class IIIb
---------------------------------------------------
Die4Drivers 1.3v lab laser/projector driver

Laserbee 3.2W Deluxe LPM
ARGMeter 1.1v
Ophir 20C-A sensor

Peregrine 1.5.0 is working now on MacOSX Yay!!

Last edited by Seoul_lasers; 02-04-2013 at 02:17 PM.

02-05-2013, 02:01 AM #7
 Class 4 Laser Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 8,852 Rep Power: 1342
Cyparagon
Class 4 Laser

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 8,852
Rep Power: 1342
Re: High Voltage Powersupply Info

Eh, none of what he mentioned is lethal except the MOT and pole pig.

By the way, pole pigs are typically in the range of 7-20kV I believe. There's no way in hell that 20kV is jumping 6 meters of air - you'd need many millions of volts for that.
__________________
A problem well stated is a problem half solved.

Last edited by Cyparagon; 02-05-2013 at 02:04 AM.

02-05-2013, 02:20 AM #8
 Class 2 Laser Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Edmonton, AB Posts: 377 Rep Power: 67
Polonium210
Class 2 Laser

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Edmonton, AB
Posts: 377
Rep Power: 67
Re: High Voltage Powersupply Info

Sounds like you know just enough to get yourself hurt
__________________

__________________________________________________
405nm 75mW Wicked Lasers E2 Evolution
405nm 500mW S06J build
405nm 750mW S06J build
445nm 1W Aurora C6 custom build
445nm 825mW UltraFire A1 custom build
445nm 800mW Arctic Spyder III
445nm >2W M-140 Saik custom build
447nm 1W Spartan
520nm 180mW 501B
532nm 15mW laser pointer
532nm 75mW TTL Lab module
532nm 125mW Wicked Lasers E2
532nm 150mW Rayfoss
532nm 300mW Wicked Lasers Krypton
632.8nm 1mW Laserex HeNe handheld
633nm 3mW HeNe Siemens
635nm 200mW o-Like
638nm 560mW Mitsubishi in Aurora SH-034 custom build
650nm 120mW Warnlaser pointer
660nm 250mW Small Sun A33
660nm 265mW Rayfoss
RGB 200mW Labby
1064nm Pulsed Nd:YAG Laser ~ 10-50mJ output
10600nm 40W Co2 laser
LaserBee A 2watt LPM

LASER PICS

TESLA COILS
__________________________________________________

Last edited by Polonium210; 02-05-2013 at 02:26 AM.

02-05-2013, 02:26 AM #9
 Class 3R Laser Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Victoria, British Columbia Posts: 1,964 Rep Power: 286
Seoul_lasers
Class 3R Laser

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Victoria, British Columbia
Posts: 1,964
Rep Power: 286
Re: High Voltage Powersupply Info

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Cyparagon Eh, none of what he mentioned is lethal except the MOT and pole pig. By the way, pole pigs are typically in the range of 7-20kV I believe. There's no way in hell that 20kV is jumping 6 meters of air - you'd need many millions of volts for that.
The ZVS driver is more than capable of delivering enough current for defib.
40Kv at 1-5mA is possible with a flyback.
Right, the MOT and the Pole Pigs are most certainly lethal supplies. 500mA to 1-3A out!
Seeing is that this poster is new, I am suggest he play it safe.

__________________
650nm ~350mW DVD 20x diode RyanSoh3 Class IIIb
650nm ~350mW DVD 22x 3.5mm labby build 2010 Class IIIb
532nm 10mW-15mW DPSS Module IR filtered(S.Korea)RyanSoh3 Class IIIb
445nm 3.49W pk ~3.15W av. Sinner Cypreus II +DTR 9mm 445nm Class IV
445nm RHD Saber Twins 2.7W ~2.35W pk Class IV
445nm A140 module x2 Maxsink Class IV
405nm Daguin Kryton Groove SO6J 700mW build. Class IV
405nm Olike 560mW-600mW pen sold Scopeguy20
Class IV
337.1nm TEA Nitrogen laser project 2011 Class IIIb
---------------------------------------------------
Die4Drivers 1.3v lab laser/projector driver

Laserbee 3.2W Deluxe LPM
ARGMeter 1.1v
Ophir 20C-A sensor

Peregrine 1.5.0 is working now on MacOSX Yay!!

02-05-2013, 02:48 AM #10
 Class 4 Laser Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 8,852 Rep Power: 1342
Cyparagon
Class 4 Laser

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 8,852
Rep Power: 1342
Re: High Voltage Powersupply Info

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Seoul_lasers 40Kv at 1-5mA is possible with a flyback.
1-5mA isn't lethal. Most sources I've read take at least 30mA as the minimum to pose a risk of death. Sure, one in a million people might die at 10mA, but one in a million people would die from tripping over a log, too. That's not to say I'd recommend putting logs on sidewalks. But at the same time, it's a bit silly to tell people that logs are death traps

Be careful: agreed 100%
Flybacks kill: not so much
__________________
A problem well stated is a problem half solved.

02-05-2013, 03:33 AM #11
 Class 3R Laser Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Victoria, British Columbia Posts: 1,964 Rep Power: 286
Seoul_lasers
Class 3R Laser

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Victoria, British Columbia
Posts: 1,964
Rep Power: 286
Re: High Voltage Powersupply Info

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Cyparagon 1-5mA isn't lethal. Most sources I've read take at least 30mA as the minimum to pose a risk of death. Sure, one in a million people might die at 10mA, but one in a million people would die from tripping over a log, too. That's not to say I'd recommend putting logs on sidewalks. But at the same time, it's a bit silly to tell people that logs are death traps Be careful: agreed 100% Flybacks kill: not so much
Well, true 5mA generally isn't lethal for the average person, 40Kvdc @
5mA is the start of where things do get nasty.
***10mA and you cannot let go of a wire since your muscles start to lock up at this current.
The higher the voltage, the easier the current to flow into the nervous system and start causing all sorts of chaos.

There is a great link below, showing the 10mA - 100mA line as being the line between a non lethal "shock" and a "potentially" life threatening shock with the upper range next to 100mA being "lethal".
30mA neon Xmfrs are labeled as being a DANGER Lethal shock hazard for the very fact that your muscles loose complete control, even though it is well below 100mA.

Electrical Safety: The Fatal Current

Again, as you've noted best be safe than sorry. I think the above link
really puts things into perspective regarding current and lethality.
__________________
650nm ~350mW DVD 20x diode RyanSoh3 Class IIIb
650nm ~350mW DVD 22x 3.5mm labby build 2010 Class IIIb
532nm 10mW-15mW DPSS Module IR filtered(S.Korea)RyanSoh3 Class IIIb
445nm 3.49W pk ~3.15W av. Sinner Cypreus II +DTR 9mm 445nm Class IV
445nm RHD Saber Twins 2.7W ~2.35W pk Class IV
445nm A140 module x2 Maxsink Class IV
405nm Daguin Kryton Groove SO6J 700mW build. Class IV
405nm Olike 560mW-600mW pen sold Scopeguy20
Class IV
337.1nm TEA Nitrogen laser project 2011 Class IIIb
---------------------------------------------------
Die4Drivers 1.3v lab laser/projector driver

Laserbee 3.2W Deluxe LPM
ARGMeter 1.1v
Ophir 20C-A sensor

Peregrine 1.5.0 is working now on MacOSX Yay!!

02-05-2013, 05:00 AM #12
 Class 4 Laser Join Date: May 2007 Location: Queensland, AU Posts: 7,549 Rep Power: 689
Things
Class 4 Laser

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Queensland, AU
Posts: 7,549
Rep Power: 689
Re: High Voltage Powersupply Info

No way a pole pig is going to be throwing 6 metre sparks unless you're in a substation shorting out ones the size of a house. While it is true you can pull some quite long arcs, the arc length once the arc is already established is mostly determined by current.

The higher the voltage, the further a spark can jump, the higher the current, the further you can pull an arc out. Not enough current and you can't sustain an arc, not enough voltage you can't start an arc. You can pull MOT sized arcs from 240V mains if there's enough current behind it.

Last edited by Things; 02-05-2013 at 05:00 AM.

02-05-2013, 05:21 AM #13
 Class 2M Laser Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Santa Rosa, CA Posts: 909 Rep Power: 64
pschlosser
Class 2M Laser

Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 909
Rep Power: 64
Re: High Voltage Powersupply Info

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Seoul_lasers We don't want dead members!
Maybe he was sent by a competing forum to thin down our heard by attrition.
(I learned the meaning of that word from John Rambo.)

02-05-2013, 06:17 AM #14
 Class 2M Laser Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 533 Rep Power: 49
phenol
Class 2M Laser

Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 533
Rep Power: 49
Re: High Voltage Powersupply Info

While we are on the war of attrition thru electrocution subject, it's only fair to mention that the feeling (or the lack thereof) of shock heavily depends on the frequency of current. It tends to flow in funny ways and paths as frequency goes up (the skin effect). Not one time have i touched the raw AC output of high frequency flybacks and while the feeling is beyond description, so is the smell of roasted skin. I have also come in accidental contact with the even highter frequency output of HF/VHF power amplifiers (50-100W) or with some resonating components (inductors mostly) and while the feeling of muscle spasms is totally absent, the smoking skin is not.

02-05-2013, 06:18 AM #15
 Class 4 Laser Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 8,852 Rep Power: 1342
Cyparagon
Class 4 Laser

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 8,852
Rep Power: 1342
Re: High Voltage Powersupply Info

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Seoul_lasers Electrical Safety: The Fatal Current: "the only reasonable conclusion that can be drawn is that 75 volts are just as lethal as 750 volts"
__________________
A problem well stated is a problem half solved.

02-05-2013, 09:40 AM #16
 Class 4 Laser Join Date: May 2007 Location: Queensland, AU Posts: 7,549 Rep Power: 689
Things
Class 4 Laser

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Queensland, AU
Posts: 7,549
Rep Power: 689
Re: High Voltage Powersupply Info

Waaiit, and this is hosted on an .edu site??

 Thread Tools Display Modes Linear Mode

 Posting Rules You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts BB code is On Smilies are On [IMG] code is On HTML code is OffTrackbacks are On Pingbacks are On Refbacks are On Forum Rules

All times are GMT. The time now is 11:41 PM.

 -- DarkShadows V5 -- Responsive LPF -2562016 -- Default Style Contact Us - Laser Pointer Forums - Archive - Top