Welcome to Laser Pointer Forums! If you are looking for a laser you may want to check out the database of laser pointer companies. The link will open in a new window for your convenience.

 Laser Pointer Forums - Discuss Laser Pointers Expanding Earth Theory Laser Pointer Company Database     Laser Top Sites List     Lasers by Type     Green Lasers

07-02-2014, 09:24 PM #65
 Class 3B Laser Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 4,465 Rep Power: 827
Trevor
Class 3B Laser

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 4,465
Rep Power: 827
Re: Expanding Earth Theory

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Soiguapo Since we don't know the weight of the sensor we can't calculate Newtons, that's why I calculated the acceleration on the sensor instead m1 = force of the sensor m1a = F = G * m1 * m2 / (r ^ 2) a = F / m1 = G * m2 / (r ^2)
The mass of the sensor is irrelevant. I confirmed in my excel sheet - changing the mass of the sensor does not affect the change in gravitational force.

The change in force of a larger Earth is greater than an 80kg person.

Run the numbers and use the right formula.

Trevor

__________________
There's a fundamental truth to our nature. Man must explore.

Code:
```23:10 <ARG>    nothing has blown up yet :)
23:10 <Trevor> that is a distressingly low standard for success```

07-02-2014, 09:26 PM #66
 Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 12 Rep Power: 0
Soiguapo
Junior Member

Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 12
Rep Power: 0
Re: Expanding Earth Theory

Quote:
 Originally Posted by xirrious That formula is wrong the end of the first just contains distance no radius or squaring
This one?
G * m / (d ^2)

^2 means squared

Last edited by Soiguapo; 07-02-2014 at 09:26 PM.

07-02-2014, 09:28 PM #67
 Class 3B Laser Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 4,465 Rep Power: 827
Trevor
Class 3B Laser

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 4,465
Rep Power: 827
Re: Expanding Earth Theory

Ok, here's an update to my numbers. I halved the increase in radius to make it more conservative and also accounted for the small radial increase (I had forgotten)... now you're only off by a factor of 46,782!

Trevor
__________________
There's a fundamental truth to our nature. Man must explore.

Code:
```23:10 <ARG>    nothing has blown up yet :)
23:10 <Trevor> that is a distressingly low standard for success```

Last edited by Trevor; 07-02-2014 at 09:28 PM.

07-02-2014, 09:37 PM #68
 Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 12 Rep Power: 0
Soiguapo
Junior Member

Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 12
Rep Power: 0
Re: Expanding Earth Theory

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Trevor The mass of the sensor is irrelevant. I confirmed in my excel sheet - changing the mass of the sensor does not affect the change in gravitational force. The change in force of a larger Earth is greater than an 80kg person. Run the numbers and use the right formula. Trevor
I am pretty sure I am using the right formula. gravity is measured in m/s^2, that is acceleration. G*m/(r^2) measures the amount of acceleration the mass of 'm' has on any arbitrary object at distance 'r'. That is the correct formula, since the mass of the sensor is irrelevant.

A gravity sensor would measure units of acceleration, not force. Maybe you should recheck your equations.

07-02-2014, 09:40 PM #69
 Class 3B Laser Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 4,465 Rep Power: 827
Trevor
Class 3B Laser

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 4,465
Rep Power: 827
Re: Expanding Earth Theory

EDIT: Hold the phone. Gotta check something.

Trevor
__________________
There's a fundamental truth to our nature. Man must explore.

Code:
```23:10 <ARG>    nothing has blown up yet :)
23:10 <Trevor> that is a distressingly low standard for success```

Last edited by Trevor; 07-02-2014 at 09:41 PM.

07-02-2014, 09:40 PM #70
 Class 2M Laser Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Va Beach, VA Posts: 581 Rep Power: 57
xirrious
Class 2M Laser

Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Va Beach, VA
Posts: 581
Rep Power: 57
Re: Expanding Earth Theory

Thank you Trevor. Also mass of the sensor therefore is NOT irrelevant as it has an effect on overall gravitational force which IN TURN results in acceleration. You put the cart before the horse

Not to mention you keep using radii in your equations when it has nothing to do wit Newtons law
__________________
Wavelength Collection:
700mW 405nm Custom by Isaac T.
50mW 405nm Laser Pen
1500mW 445nm Custom
1000mW 445nm LuckLaser
3100mW 455nm Custom by Isaac T.
200mW 520nm 501B Custom
400mW 532nm SkyLaser HL-300 -Being Replaced.
100mW 532nm Laser Pen
50mW 589nm DragonLasers PGL-III-M
15mW 638nm 501B
800mW 650nm SkyLaser PL-1000
100mW 650nm Laser Pen
5mW 650mm SkyLaser Pen

"I appreciate the beauty and aroma of a rose as much as the next man, but an understanding of the physical and chemical processes that underly that beauty can only enrich the experience."

-Various hosts, diodes, and lenses awaiting assembly

Last edited by xirrious; 07-02-2014 at 09:45 PM.

07-02-2014, 09:47 PM #71
 Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 12 Rep Power: 0
Soiguapo
Junior Member

Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 12
Rep Power: 0
Re: Expanding Earth Theory

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Trevor Do you know what causes acceleration? Force. f=ma Your lack of knowledge of basic physics is really not helping you. Trevor
Are you even reading my posts?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Soiguapo m1 = mass of the sensor m1a = F = G * m1 * m2 / (r ^ 2) a = F / m1 = G * m2 / (r ^2)
That part of the math I am certian of. The part I am uncertain of is the relationship between volume and gravity assuming a constant density. I just assumed that the following ratio would be good enough.

g'/g = v'/v

I know for small changes, this ratio will be good enough, I am just not sure at what point this approximation would diverge from the actual answer.

Anyway, I am done arguing the math. It really isn't that important to the overall argument anyway.

07-02-2014, 09:48 PM #72
 Class 3B Laser Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 4,465 Rep Power: 827
Trevor
Class 3B Laser

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 4,465
Rep Power: 827
Re: Expanding Earth Theory

I messed up a formula. Your math is, however, still off.

I'm copying numbers in to reply. Stand by...

Trevor
__________________
There's a fundamental truth to our nature. Man must explore.

Code:
```23:10 <ARG>    nothing has blown up yet :)
23:10 <Trevor> that is a distressingly low standard for success```

07-02-2014, 09:48 PM #73
 Class 2M Laser Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Va Beach, VA Posts: 581 Rep Power: 57
xirrious
Class 2M Laser

Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Va Beach, VA
Posts: 581
Rep Power: 57
Re: Expanding Earth Theory

That is NOT the equation I already showed you the proper one. It's close but no cigar the end is incorrect as I stated.

For relationship between volume and gravity first you need density in lbs/ft^2 or something then add that to your original equation F=G (m1*m2)/d^2
__________________
Wavelength Collection:
700mW 405nm Custom by Isaac T.
50mW 405nm Laser Pen
1500mW 445nm Custom
1000mW 445nm LuckLaser
3100mW 455nm Custom by Isaac T.
200mW 520nm 501B Custom
400mW 532nm SkyLaser HL-300 -Being Replaced.
100mW 532nm Laser Pen
50mW 589nm DragonLasers PGL-III-M
15mW 638nm 501B
800mW 650nm SkyLaser PL-1000
100mW 650nm Laser Pen
5mW 650mm SkyLaser Pen

"I appreciate the beauty and aroma of a rose as much as the next man, but an understanding of the physical and chemical processes that underly that beauty can only enrich the experience."

-Various hosts, diodes, and lenses awaiting assembly

Last edited by xirrious; 07-02-2014 at 09:53 PM.

07-02-2014, 09:51 PM #74
 Class 3B Laser Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 4,465 Rep Power: 827
Trevor
Class 3B Laser

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 4,465
Rep Power: 827
Re: Expanding Earth Theory

One of my formulas effed up.

So, now that my sheet has been checked, rechecked, and checked again...

rEarth= 6378.1 km
GrowthRate= 0.0125 m
Years= 1 y
TotalGrowth= 0.0125 m
rEarthEnd= 6378.10000125 km EDIT: Corrected this value in Excel manually. The formula tried to round.
vEarthBegin= 1.08683E+12 m3
vEarthEnd= 1.08683E+12 m3
vDifference= 1017.004028 m3
dEarth= 5520 kg/m3

fEarth1=0.0098365962325
fEarth2=0.0098365962356
fPerson=0.0000000000008

Thus, the change in the Earth's mass STILL overwhelms a person's force of gravity by 2.3 times.

Not sure how I messed the number up so badly, had to remake the whole excel sheet. Sorry! I'll leave my posts for posterity...

Anyway, the person wouldn't even be on the same axis as the measurement. We care about force along the Z axis. This argument is moot because a person standing beside a sensor exerts force on the X or Y axis, which will not change the Z value in the least.

We have observed no change in gravity since we started observing, therefore there has been no change in mass and no change in the volume of the Earth.

Trevor
__________________
There's a fundamental truth to our nature. Man must explore.

Code:
```23:10 <ARG>    nothing has blown up yet :)
23:10 <Trevor> that is a distressingly low standard for success```

Last edited by Trevor; 07-02-2014 at 10:05 PM.

07-02-2014, 09:54 PM #75
 Class 2M Laser Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Va Beach, VA Posts: 581 Rep Power: 57
xirrious
Class 2M Laser

Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Va Beach, VA
Posts: 581
Rep Power: 57
Re: Expanding Earth Theory

Oops I misunderstood the whole argument but either way dude had his math wrong
__________________
Wavelength Collection:
700mW 405nm Custom by Isaac T.
50mW 405nm Laser Pen
1500mW 445nm Custom
1000mW 445nm LuckLaser
3100mW 455nm Custom by Isaac T.
200mW 520nm 501B Custom
400mW 532nm SkyLaser HL-300 -Being Replaced.
100mW 532nm Laser Pen
50mW 589nm DragonLasers PGL-III-M
15mW 638nm 501B
800mW 650nm SkyLaser PL-1000
100mW 650nm Laser Pen
5mW 650mm SkyLaser Pen

"I appreciate the beauty and aroma of a rose as much as the next man, but an understanding of the physical and chemical processes that underly that beauty can only enrich the experience."

-Various hosts, diodes, and lenses awaiting assembly

07-02-2014, 09:59 PM #76
 Class 3B Laser Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 4,465 Rep Power: 827
Trevor
Class 3B Laser

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 4,465
Rep Power: 827
Re: Expanding Earth Theory

Either way, we can establish that we have measured no change in gravity... so there has been no change in mass of the Earth since those observations began.

We HAVE, however, observed continents moving around in that timeframe.

If the Earth is not expanding and the continents are moving, well...

Trevor
__________________
There's a fundamental truth to our nature. Man must explore.

Code:
```23:10 <ARG>    nothing has blown up yet :)
23:10 <Trevor> that is a distressingly low standard for success```

Last edited by Trevor; 07-02-2014 at 09:59 PM.

07-02-2014, 10:08 PM #77
 Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 12 Rep Power: 0
Soiguapo
Junior Member

Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 12
Rep Power: 0
Re: Expanding Earth Theory

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Trevor Not sure how I messed the number up so badly, had to remake the whole excel sheet. Sorry! I'll leave my posts for posterity...
Understandable, my first estimate was wrong too.

Quote:
 Plus, they wouldn't even be on the same axis. You care about Z acceleration. This argument is moot because a person standing beside a sensor measuring vertical force of gravity has ABSOLUTELY no effect on the vertical reading.
I know, the point I was trying to make is it is really easy to effect the readings of a gravitational meter.

Quote:
 We have observed no change in gravity since we started observing, therefore there has been no change in mass and no change in the volume of the Earth Trevor
Well, acceleration measured varies from place to place and effects gravitation readings. It is effected by elevation, density of the rock underneath you, latitude, and the pull of the moon. So two readings in different parts of the world are going to vary by quite a bit. Even a reading in the same place at different times will differ wildly. So to detect the change in earth's mass you would have to cancel out all of these other factors. I don't find it strange that nobody has noticed by measuring the gravitational pull of the earth.

Last edited by Soiguapo; 07-02-2014 at 10:10 PM.

07-02-2014, 10:14 PM #78
 Class 3B Laser Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 4,465 Rep Power: 827
Trevor
Class 3B Laser

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 4,465
Rep Power: 827
Re: Expanding Earth Theory

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Soiguapo Well, acceleration measured varies from place to place and effects gravitation readings. It is effected by elevation, density of the rock underneath you, latitude, and the pull of the moon. So two readings in different parts of the world are going to vary by quite a bit. Even a reading in the same place at different times will differ wildly. So to detect the change in earth's mass you would have to cancel out all of these other factors. I don't find it strange that nobody has noticed the earth expanding by measuring the gravitational pull of the earth.
The Earth rotates at a given speed and the moon is of a given constant mass.

As long as you average a measurement out for the right amount of time at a constant location so that the effects of other celestial objects cancel themselves out (a sine wave averages to zero over one period), the value will still be accurate.

We have not measured any change in gravity, and the basic assumptions we use to put things in orbit have continued to work.

Had we just assumed gravity would stay the same after we accurately measured it to put things in orbit around the Earth, our calculations for extraterrestrial missions would be noticeably off now, fifty (probably more) years later.

Here's an experiment NASA's been running regarding Earth's gravity: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity...ate_Experiment

Trevor
__________________
There's a fundamental truth to our nature. Man must explore.

Code:
```23:10 <ARG>    nothing has blown up yet :)
23:10 <Trevor> that is a distressingly low standard for success```

Last edited by Trevor; 07-02-2014 at 10:18 PM.

07-03-2014, 03:56 AM #79
 Class 2M Laser Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: SW OK USA Posts: 899 Rep Power: 135
Jmillerdoc
Class 2M Laser

Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: SW OK USA
Posts: 899
Rep Power: 135
Re: Expanding Earth Theory

Alright, since we are now getting into gravity and celestial bodies why not shake things up a bit more. So far we've been pretty civil to each other.

Although I'm not an adherent to all of this guy's beliefs, I found some stuff on YouTube not too long ago by Charles Missler. He made a very compelling argument that the predominant natural force influencing the universe is not gravity, but rather the electromagnetic force. As y'all are aware the EM force is in the order of magnitudes greater than gravity. It's pretty interesting stuff. I don't have a link at the moment but if you search on YouTube for "plasma universe" or "electric universe" you'll find this video.

Just thought I'd throw that out there to see if anyone cares to check it out.

07-03-2014, 04:00 AM #80
 Class 3B Laser Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 4,465 Rep Power: 827
Trevor
Class 3B Laser

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 4,465
Rep Power: 827
Re: Expanding Earth Theory

If I recall correctly, gravity is really absurdly weak compared to other fundamental forces... and that's the extend of my knowledge of the theoretical/crazy/whatever side of the fundamental forces.

Honestly I don't feel at all qualified to comment without a serious literature review.

Trevor
__________________
There's a fundamental truth to our nature. Man must explore.

Code:
```23:10 <ARG>    nothing has blown up yet :)
23:10 <Trevor> that is a distressingly low standard for success```

 Thread Tools Display Modes Linear Mode

 Posting Rules You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts BB code is On Smilies are On [IMG] code is On HTML code is OffTrackbacks are On Pingbacks are On Refbacks are On Forum Rules

All times are GMT. The time now is 06:23 PM.

 -- DarkShadows V5 -- Responsive LPF -2562016 -- Default Style Contact Us - Laser Pointer Forums - Archive - Top