What exactly Justifies a Rep Deduction?

Fellow members,

I was recently subtracted rep in a recent thread, because I stood up for another member. The issue was indeed a large one, and one that had nothing to do with the member that was being attacked (which was happening for his personal beliefs). I believed that there was a comment posted, which I deemed unnecessary and plain rude concerning this member. I later went to this victim's public page to check him out, and sure enough, he had been neg-repped from the member that was attacking him in the thread. I then, went ahead and neg repped this attacker, by reasoning that his name calling business, and neg repping actions were not justified since they were based on this victim's personal beliefs, and that the victim had done nothing wrong, to deserve the deduction in rep.

And from there, not to my surprise, the attacker had come back only to neg rep me and call me an irrelevant, ridiculous name.... all because I stood up for another member he was attacking.

So I was just wondering... what kinds of actions, and words (in your opinions) happen to justify the subtraction of rep from other members?

Was the attacker right in neg repping another member for his personal beliefs? Did I act out of place by defending another's right to his personal beliefs when he got cornered?

Were any of this attacker's Repping actions justifiable?

What happens in this situation?

I feel like things like this really cheapen the rep system. I don't rely on the system, nor do I pay close attention to my own rep, but when I saw this, all I could say, was "Really?"

I'm just sort of confused about what kind of things it rightly takes to make a neg-rep justified. Is there anyway to keep from getting neg repped while attempting to neg rep them? It seems like a useless way to do things without such a feature, because It seems like you can neg rep someone for neg repping them or for any reason at all!



Please post your answers and concerns in a respectful manner, I'm not wanting to target anyone in specific about this. I'm not mentioning names here in the thread at all. I just want to know, what makes a neg rep a fair one?

Thank you for your thoughts.

-Tyler

I understand your confusion...
Some members here can be a bit sensitive...

The +rep also gets abused, though. +rep is often given out for things like "LOL teh win" or other stupid internet jokes I don't understand...

The rep system was designed to distinguish helpful members from thieves, trolls, and whiny babies. It works for the most part, but the system has it's flaws.

Different people use it differently. I have give negative reputation three times in the last 20 months. Even Tyler didn't get any neg rep from me until he started wielding his as a weapon. I tell everybody that the number is not as important as the comments. The comments will tell you why the rep is there.

Peace,
dave

I don't think defining what rep should be used for will help the situation, sadly. I know I myself have received 6 neg reps throughout my time on LPF - 4 of them were from each of a now banned member's ghost accounts as retaliation for me starting the poll that got him banned, 1 was from another member (who is now also banned) because I disagreed with something he said, and 1 of them was retaliation for a negative rep I gave to someone for starting a flamewar and calling several veterans names.

I also have several positive reps which are either purely for agreeing with someone, or for lame reasons such as "cool avatar" and "lol". Either way those ones weren't really for contributing anything.

The number of someone's rep means little or nothing to me - I find myself disagreeing and thinking "what an idiot" about a few members with equal or higher rep than myself now and then, while I also encounter complete noobs with no rep who contribute like crazy and speak pure wisdom.

To me reputation is this:
1) It feels nice to be given positive rep when you have contributed so you know someone appreciates your work.
2) A tool for noobs to quickly evaluate whether a seller can be trusted or not.
3) A fun way of seeing idiots getting upset and thinking they are hurting me with neg rep.

When you have been here, even for just a few weeks, I think it quickly becomes obvious who deserves the rep, who does not, and who deserves more, and then the points themselves don't really matter.

Seb

Jaseth said:

I don't think defining what rep should be used for will help the situation, sadly. I know I myself have received 6 neg reps throughout my time on LPF - 4 of them were from each of a now banned member's ghost accounts as retaliation for me starting the poll that got him banned, 1 was from another member (who is now also banned) because I disagreed with something he said, and 1 of them was retaliation for a negative rep I gave to someone for starting a flamewar and calling several veterans names.

I also have several positive reps which are either purely for agreeing with someone, or for lame reasons such as "cool avatar" and "lol". Either way those ones weren't really for contributing anything.

The number of someone's rep means little or nothing to me - I find myself disagreeing and thinking "what an idiot" about a few members with equal or higher rep than myself now and then, while I also encounter complete noobs with no rep who contribute like crazy and speak pure wisdom.

To me reputation is this:
1) It feels nice to be given positive rep when you have contributed so you know someone appreciates your work.
2) A tool for noobs to quickly evaluate whether a seller can be trusted or not.
3) A fun way of seeing idiots getting upset and thinking they are hurting me with neg rep.

When you have been here, even for just a few weeks, I think it quickly becomes obvious who deserves the rep, who does not, and who deserves more, and then the points themselves don't really matter.

Seb

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(DAM i got to give out the only rep i got (i have 2 to give:: i thank?)


Jerry, was nice to show us all the Rep system, when the form changed.
although, the system workes as (form law says) good common sense is the best approach.

What? Are you saying I started yesterday or that you did? I am confused.
Also, this is not a discussion about how the rep system works but more about when you should give rep - should it be just for tranactions, should it be for contributing knowledge, should it be for being kind, etc. Should you deduct points for disagreeing, for other people's fights, for private life matters, for swearing, etc.

Seb

EDIT: I get it now, thanks I need coffee..

I personally don't care so much about this number, but since I know newbies get scared when they see they are on negative reputation I usually add them negative entries when they cross the line

Meatball said:

Fellow members,

I was recently subtracted rep in a recent thread, because I stood up for another member. The issue was indeed a large one, and one that had nothing to do with the member that was being attacked (which was happening for his personal beliefs). I believed that there was a comment posted, which I deemed unnecessary and plain rude concerning this member. I later went to this victim's public page to check him out, and sure enough, he had been neg-repped from the member that was attacking him in the thread. I then, went ahead and neg repped this attacker, by reasoning that his name calling business, and neg repping actions were not justified since they were based on this victim's personal beliefs, and that the victim had done nothing wrong, to deserve the deduction in rep.

No, you weren't attacked. You stuck your nose in business it had not needed to be in. You neg-repped me. To you, that rep was justified. I neg-repped you because of what you said to me, so to me my neg-rep was justified.

And from there, not to my surprise, the attacker had come back only to neg rep me and call me an irrelevant, ridiculous name.... all because I stood up for another member he was attacking.

I called you a commy because you were trying to suppress me & my views on the topic at hand.

So I was just wondering... what kinds of actions, and words (in your opinions) happen to justify the subtraction of rep from other members?

You tell me, since you dished it out to me first.

Was the attacker right in neg repping another member for his personal beliefs? Did I act out of place by defending another's right to his personal beliefs when he got cornered?

Were any of this attacker's Repping actions justifiable?

What happens in this situation?

I feel like things like this really cheapen the rep system. I don't rely on the system, nor do I pay close attention to my own rep, but when I saw this, all I could say, was "Really?"

If you don't rely on the system, then why is this even an issue?

I'm just sort of confused about what kind of things it rightly takes to make a neg-rep justified. Is there anyway to keep from getting neg repped while attempting to neg rep them? It seems like a useless way to do things without such a feature, because It seems like you can neg rep someone for neg repping them or for any reason at all!



Please post your answers and concerns in a respectful manner, I'm not wanting to target anyone in specific about this. I'm not mentioning names here in the thread at all. I just want to know, what makes a neg rep a fair one?

Thank you for your thoughts.

-Tyler

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Well, it's quite obvious that when one looks at your profile, it is I that you're talking about. I don't understand why you're STILL making a big deal out of this and getting bent out of shape, especially when you openly admit that you don't care for the rep system. I will now bring to light a few of the PM's that we exchanged so that everyone can see where I am coming from.

First of all, this all stems back to the darkarmyofone thread (Yeah even though he's still banned, there's still drama here because of him). A member made this post in lieu of all of the evidence that was presented against darkarmyofone. Here's the post in question.

Mrcrouse said:

I did vote no for Tyler because I personally never had any bad experiences with him. I made a few purchases from him, and he was planning on having me make diode presses for his shop. Now it may just be my religious background, but I was always taught to forgive a person for their past mistakes. Yes, Tyler used to be addicted to drugs, but he took the proper steps to solve that problem, and as he said, has been sober for over a year. I personally think if people are going to judge someone they should judge them based on their own experiences with that person, not based on their interpretations of other peoples experiences with them.
That's just my opinion on it, we are all obviously free to have our own opinions though.
I know it probably would have been best to stay out of this, but I just feel that it needed to be said.
Best of luck Tyler.

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Notice the text in bold. My issue with that is this. Religion isn't going to prevent someone from stealing your hard earned money. Basically Mrcrouse felt that eventually God was going to fix all of this, so I called him a religious fanatic. I feel that if you can't make an educated decision on a real life topic all because of a religion, then you're a fanatic in my eyes. Crazy Jay even agreed with me, he just didn't word it as I did. Mrcrouse didn't even bother to read the info. He was being extremely selfish in regards to the whole situation. He felt darkarmyofone didn't deserve a ban because darkarmyofone never wronged him personally. That was why I issued a negative rep to Mrcrouse.

Then, Meatball neg-repped me. This is what he had to say.

"Calling Mrcrouse a religious fanatic was way out of line and out of context. Sorry man, you've got to watch what you say about that. It was quite uncalled for."

So, I neg-repped him back. This is what I had to say.

"I firmly believe in freedom of speech, you Commy. He brought Religion into a thread that had nothing to do with it."

Then he send me a PM. We then exchange some words, which results in this thread. Here are the PM's.

Meatball said:

Why am I neg repped for standing up for Mrcrouse?

I've seen many of your posts to be helpful to the forum, and beneficial for newbs especially.

But "punishing" him for his personal beliefs? That's just silly.

I only neg repped you because of what you called him, not because of anything else.

Calling him a religious fanatic and me a commy is completely uncalled for. You are blindly calling us these things without even knowing us! Please don't do this.

Neg rep me all you want, but Please don't call me something ridiculous for what or whom I may stand up for.

Thank you.

-Tyler

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To which I replied:

mfo said:

I do help. The thread had nothing to do with religious beliefs. He should have left religion out of it & you should have stayed out of it mine and his argument.

If you don't like what I say, either disregard what I say, or add me to your ignore list. I had every right to say what I said, and every right to neg rep you for neg repping me. You're not a mod, nor are you forum police. You were indeed acting like a communist by trying to silence me & telling me what to say/not say.

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To which Meatball replied:

Meatball said:

Please do not accuse me of doing what you did. He had just as much right to state his reasoning for his vote as you did. The only difference was, he was not calling anyone rude names.

He was not preaching to anyone, and he should not be accused of it either. All he said was that he believes in forgiveness. Then he got attacked, so he began to give reasoning for why Dark may not be so bad.

Do not tell me that I am trying to rid you of your freedom of speech. That is what you are trying to do to him, and now me.

There is difference between stating what you believe, and then calling people names for no reason. It dirties up the threads, and makes people like Mrcrouse feel unwelcomed.
You simply shut him up, and I believe that was wrong to do since this is an open community forum. And you are calling ME a communist?

You say you had every right to say what you did, well then so the heck did Mrcrouse!

I am not a mod, nor forum police, but I'm just another member, just like you.

I've been here quite a bit longer than you, and I know when these lines are crossed. I beg of you, please stop the name calling!

Thank you,

-Tyler

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To which I replied:

mfo said:

Tyler, listen. Long story short, his reasoning was idiotic. God's forgiveness isn't going to stop scammers from ripping you off. Only common sense and confrontation will do that.

I called him a religious fanatic, and I stand by what I said. Anyone who can't make an educated decision because of their religion is a religious fanatic where I come from.

You are acting like I communist. I never told him to shut up or anything along those lines. I merely called him a religious fanatic. If he took offense to it, oh well. Business is rough sometimes I guess. You can think I'm insensitive, but that's just the truth. You on the other hand are out right telling me to stop what I'm doing. So, who's the communist here? The answer is you.

I noticed that you voted no on the ban Tyler poll. You're worried about me dirtying up the forums by calling someone a religious fanatic, yet the shit that Tyler's been pulling is ok with you? Are you on drugs? You obviously don't know when lines have been crossed because you voted to keep that asshole here among us.

As I said you're not a mod, so stop lecturing me like one. If you find a post that offends you, report it to Avery and move on. Whining about it through PM's will get you no where. I don't care how long you've been here as it's quite irrelevant to the topic on hand. Do us both a favor and move on. You obviously have your priorities mixed up anyway.

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After that, I never heard anything from Meatball until I came across this thread. Now, a lot of us were under a lot of stress for because of darkarmyofone. Maybe I was a bit harsh with my replies, but that's just how I am. I don't dilute what needs to be said, I am very blunt. Do notice that Meatball thinks I am dirtying the forums with what I say, yet he voted no to keep darkarmyofone here and wasn't worried at all with all of the "dirt" that darkarmyofone was creating here.

As a user-name ending in ball,
it's up and down, But let's ask a expert.



(TJ it's you'r sole job to flag bad office jokes)