should there be ban polls?

please no fighting in this thread, just vote

peace
-ave

The only way I see this even remotely working would be if the ban polls were only started by a member of the staff and I'm not even sure thats a good idea. It just seems like another thing that would increase drama. For that reason my vote is no.

I'm afraid that it would turn into a popularity contest.

I think a ban poll would cause more problems and fairness issues than it would solve , so -- no

It seems like vet members should be able to work
things out between themselves, save the bans for
spammers and trolls. It is a shame to see members
go that have so much to offer to the hobby.

So...

This is a democratic vote on whether we should be democratic?

Don't worry Jeff. Notifications still work even when mods delete comments without even leaving a trace that they did it. I dare say you have your answer.

So you think you can stop me me from posting in the forum Mr. Things you have now deleted 3 of my posts, why do you fear me ?

Why are you taking a stand against me ?

Jeff...

The concept could be valid but the application would be problematic.

As far as "bans" go... I try to look at it along the lines of : If I am causing enough of a heated or emotionally charged response to what I am writing then perhaps I should pause for a bit to reflect on what is being said by BOTH sides.
Perhaps ther is some portion of misunderstanding.
Perhaps there is a strong reason for another viewpoint.
It never hurts to reconsider your own thoughts when problems arise.

So if I choose not to monitor myself and continue to exasperate an obviously unruly set of postings then I would have no real recourse for being temporarily banned.
Just as is being done now by the moderators.

Sure it isn't perfect. But then none of us are perfect either.

I think that my opinion is due to the fact that I have never needed to be "banned" and I don't plan on allowing myself to be baited into needing to be "banned" either.
When I encounter something online that I don't like I simply close the window or turn off the computer altogether.
Leave all the fighting until you meet in person. It's more satisfying then.

I'm not stopping you from posting in the forums, you're continually trying to stir up crap in this thread. This thread is a simple yes or no answer, not who you think is the biggest troll.

Leave the drama stirring comments out and your posts won't be touched, not hard is it? Apparently it is for some people ...

Testing

I'm for it in the hopes it stops this X mod banned user Y for Z reason. I honestly feel there'd be less drama this way provided everything is open and transparent.

Whoa okay I just saw that whole thing....

Was that what he was banned for before?

Don't worry about it, serves no purpose in this thread


Dan

Well there's a suprise; Jeff's banned again.

I know you've been busy deleting all his posts, but maybe you could update the ban information thread with the length and reason.

Ave - Didn't Dave articulate he's and LPF's position on this very question? which i may or may not agree with. My concern for LPF as a forum is to always display unity at the top of the food chain. Please know i comment with the utmost respect. IMHO, the sheep scare fairly easily when a fracture or any indecisiveness is displayed alongside those that tend to the sheep. Individuals stuck in the middle are easily swayed in uncertain times. Many can think for themselves here but nonetheless its cause for concern.

Let's look at the join dates of people who want ban polls.

People in favor:
AnthoT - 2012
ARGLaser - 2011
bennett326- 2011
DarkSide - 2011
Flaminpyro - 2009
Jacob32123 - 2009
joeyss - 2008
rpaloalto - 2009
Sigurthr - 2011
T_Warne - 2009

People opposed:
bobhaha - 2009
Cyparagon - 2007
daguin - 2008
Ibuprofen200mg - 2011
jcranmer - 2011
madmacmo - 2009
ShortyInCanada - 2011
Things - 2007
Trevor - 2009

Just for a cursory look, let's average these years. Those in favor average to a 2010 join date. Those against? 2009.1.

With the exception of three people, everyone who voted against ban polls was around when they were going on.

Fully half of the people who voted in favor were not around during the age of the ban poll, and several of those who were around are incredibly biased due to the circumstances surrounding this poll.

Those polls were a disaster. An absolute disaster. They were extremely divisive, and spilled over into the rest of the forum. They should never come back.

This isn't a poll for whether or not the forum should be democratic. This is a poll about people wanting to be "tried" by a jury of their peers. But, that only works in the court system. In ban polls, the "defendant" runs around behind the scenes, trying to rally people to vote to keep them around. Meanwhile, others lobby for votes against them.

At that point, it's no longer a "jury trial." It's become about who can rally the most support, and what side of the line in the sand each member is on. It's no longer about what's good for the forum in the long run.

Ban polls are a witch hunt. They're not democratic. They're not a jury trial.

I know the culture of the forum is going to change over time. The torch is always being passed to newer people, to steer the forum. Should the newer members decide to vote ban polls back into existence, I hope that the realization that they've made a terrible mistake comes sooner rather than later.

Trevor

Couldn't have said it any better!

I voted yes, but only for lack of another option.

IMNHO the moderator team, and admin should be able to ban people.

The conditions of that ban should be different from what they are now though.

At present it seems any mod, can ban any member, at any time, for any reason, with zero justification or process.

There is no discussion of the ban among the moderator team, and no vote.

This is clearly what happened with the FP ban.

So for lack of another option my vote is for the return of ban polls, however I would prefer simply a formal, and public ban process instead, where at least veteran can contribute to the discussion.

Just my $0.02. All sales are final.

Ban Polls have been discussed to death on the Forum.
It seems like every time a member gets banned since the
Ban Polls were abolished the "I want Ban Polls" cry comes
to the forefront again.

We have had Ban Polls in the past and they were great fuel
for the Drama fires polarizing the Forum between buddy camps.

Members were crying for a Ban Info Thread and got one.
That's enough info for me. I may not agree 100% of the
time with a decision a Mod or the Admin may make but I
will go along with their decision for one simple reason.........

I DON'T OWN THIS FORUM

I'm a guest here by invitation in someone else's house like
every other LPF member here.


BTW.... again you are stating facts that you were not privy to.
Those statements are only your opinion and not facts.


Jerry

Being private property, this is perfectly acceptable behavior at the discretion of the admin.

As far as I can see this proposal was put forward because:
1) A long time poster and seller was banned.
2) Many people, including me, were upset about this.
3) Several of these people believe that his ban being overturned means that it must have been the product of completely unjustified vigilantism.

Now, first of all I have not seen any evidence that the moderator acted alone. All I have seen is that Avery himself did not issue the ban - but that does not necessarily mean he didn't support it to begin with. His stated reason for unbanning Jeff was that he received a large number of complaints - not that someone had been playing King of the Mods.

Secondly, it was made quite clear what Jeff was banned for - PMs and e-mails. While I do usually disagree with banning over private communications, I do not know the full extent of the trouble in these communications. Neither do the vast majority of people here.

Lastly, why does everyone want to overhaul the current system? Jeff was banned for what.. 4 hours? I call that a minor inconvenience, not a major flaw.
Avery has even chosen to review all bans. Bans that the general membership disagree with have gone from being rare and of short duration, to being almost non-existent.

Even if you somehow disagree with everything said above and believe that some of the current moderators are corrupt and horrible, ban polls are the LAST alternative we should look to.
Trevor has already made a great outline of why that is.

Honestly the only reason I voted yes is because I'd really like to know who is going to be banned BEFORE the ban happens.. you know, so I can get contact info or resolve any already-in-the-works transactions or conversations. When people just disappear out of no where (I tend not to be drawn to read threads which are prone to drama) it makes life difficult when you are in association with them.

Also, I assumed the population being polled would be the moderators, not the entire forum, so that one mod can't just ban someone without the approval of all/majority. A PUBLIC Ban Poll is a different story and I can see how that would go as Trevor described.

Don't forget you can always PM a mod or Avery for their email address if you get stuck like this.

Dan

Oh, I had no idea! Thanks, Things, that is rather helpful!