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Old 06-07-2017, 12:46 PM #17
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Default Re: Reputation system: meaning & value

Besides the inflation of the rep system, I would mention Goodhart's law:

"When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure."


For example, for veteran section it is required to have 1000 posts, regardless of their quality. This kind of encourages quantity over quality, and it is not a good measure as members who want to get into that section will optimize for post count, not post quality or forum contribution. Which is actually the opposite of what was originally intended.


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Old 06-07-2017, 01:18 PM #18
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Default Re: Reputation system: meaning & value

Quote:
Originally Posted by CurtisOliver View Post
The good points of inflation is that everything inflates at the same rate keeping the balance. The bad points, members can get left behind.
Don't let the rep system bother you as there is no reason for it to.
That is, why I say it is similar to money (losing value in time) and therefore it cannot be used for direct comparsion, here the reputation fails (if that was meaned to) to provide it and makes it somehow more complicated, other tools are needed, where I suggested to use signature space to give reference instead and/or to accompany rep.

For example, if I did not know Brucemir already and I saw in Bruce's signature link to his artworks here, that would gave me much more reference, than highly irrelevant rep number.

But that's me only and that's also point of this thread - to find if that practice might be useful and how it is perceived.


Jerry: Thanks for input. And no, I do not compare the rep with money in that sense, I just say that there are similar effects and relations as known with money in economics. Nothing else. And implying from this the inflation at some reasonable rate is just natural effect. Might be positive as indicator community is active (rep system is used and more rep points are created). However if the trust in value is none and rep is given just for free (I mean for posts without any value and rep is not deserved), than this rate would rise into higher number and cause kind of hyperinflation (as happend in Germany before WWII for example - in the morning there was one bag of money sufficient to buy bread and in the evening same day you needed wheelbarrow of money to buy it). In this case the rep system would loose its sense.

Comparing rep with money (like some rep points -> some amount of money) does not makes sense at all. If there is something like this and I could exchange rep for money, why not to do it and buy more lasers? And vice versa - rep could be bought, what would cause loosing its sense at all. Here I think the difference between money and rep is very evident.


Cel: Good point. Not sure how significant it is to rep, but for post counts definitely. Anyway I think 1000 posts is not much since there is one year limit as well. If the member is averagely active, this might be moreless reached in one year time IMO.


To all: Very interesting discussion - it seems to me, that there really is some value (in other words - trust) in reps in general, even the unitary value of one point is decreasing in time.

Hopefully it will be kept here in friendly way further without quarrels, as this topic is quite sensitive here and I'm a bit worried now to cause some bad flame war or something if it turns wrong. The point is just to look at rep more from different angle and encourage to use it wisely to perceive the reward sense/value of it.
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Last edited by Radim; 06-07-2017 at 01:29 PM.
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Old 06-07-2017, 01:23 PM #19
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Default Re: Reputation system: meaning & value

Hey Cel,
That it how it used to be. The whole idea of Madmacro's spreadsheet is rep points per post to show the ratio. QUALITY OVER QUANTITY. Now there must be dozens of members who have more rep points and a higher rep/post ratio than myself in one year than I have had in 5 years of posting over 1000 laser photographs (No exxageration!) and I see people who have been here a year or so have TRIPLE my rep points. WTF!!
There is no way to spin this. It used to be a rarity to have more reps than posts. Now it is the norm with many people with zero substance getting rep points at a crazy rate. Like I said earlier "Everyone gets a trophy for participating"

SO lets just reinforce this and now we have an Awards thread. for Veterans. Obviously most of the members are more than deserving, but I see members in so little time being a veteran and getting "awards".

Yeah OK
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Old 06-07-2017, 01:40 PM #20
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Default Re: Reputation system: meaning & value

Quote:
Originally Posted by brucemir View Post
Hey Cel,
That it how it used to be. The whole idea of Madmacro's spreadsheet is rep points per post to show the ratio. QUALITY OVER QUANTITY. Now there must be dozens of members who have more rep points and a higher rep/post ratio than myself in one year than I have had in 5 years of posting over 1000 laser photographs (No exxageration!) and I see people who have been here a year or so have TRIPLE my rep points. WTF!!
There is no way to spin this. It used to be a rarity to have more reps than posts. Now it is the norm with many people with zero substance getting rep points at a crazy rate. Like I said earlier "Everyone gets a trophy for participating"

SO lets just reinforce this and now we have an Awards thread. for Veterans. Obviously most of the members are more than deserving, but I see members in so little time being a veteran and getting "awards".

Yeah OK
Well, I see you have a problem with my Awards thread. If so I'll should I take it down. I made that thread as something positive for the vets here, and rather than mock the inflation, embrace it instead. I have always liked your work and you do deserve more rep for it.

Also I am one of very few members with triple your count and haven't been here that long in comparison to some. I'm guessing you are referring to me on that comment. I have been here for nearly two years now. Am I 'not deserving'?
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Jet Lasers offers various high quality Diode/DPSS Portables in their PL-E Pro hosts. Jet Lasers are known for their quality and are respected on LPF.
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If you are after an RGB module, you can't go wrong with Optlasers. Their 400mW model is very high quality.
Optlasers RGB Modules

Optotronics offers some of the highest output DPSS Portable Greens on the market. Their 1.4W RPL-II is by far their most amazing product and is known to be overspec.
Optotronics RPL 532nm DPSS Portables

Dragon Lasers offers the best option for 589nm (Yellow) Laser pointers.
Dragon Lasers Yellow Laser Pointers

Sanwu are known to be very high quality and every newcomer should check them out.
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Bang good is a good source for many electrical items and are often cheap and reliable.
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Last edited by CurtisOliver; 06-07-2017 at 01:48 PM.
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Old 06-07-2017, 01:51 PM #21
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Default Re: Reputation system: meaning & value

I just know what I see . No you should NOT take it down. I know the amount of wok you , Hap and other moderators put in and everyone appreciates it! I am not a veteran so I have no idea what goes on. Obviously you are more than worthy, but I see people that are not deserving. I have seen numerous malcontents here over the years and I guess I now qualify to being one. I have no say in anything that goes on here . But this has been on my mind for months now and this is my point of view. I do not think I have caused anyone trouble in my time on LPF but I guess I am now.
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Casa CTL-HM Laser Projector
532nm 100 mw 650nm 200 mw 450 nm 300 mw
Laser King LK-PD2 Laser Projector
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Old 06-07-2017, 01:56 PM #22
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Default Re: Reputation system: meaning & value

Quote:
Originally Posted by brucemir View Post
I just know what I see . I am not a veteran so I have no idea what goes on. Obviously you are more than worthy, but I see people that are not deserving. I have seen numerous malcontents here and I guess I now qualify to being one
Definitely not for saying your honest opinion! That counts in the discussion even if I or anyone disagree. Disagreement and constructive critics enrich discussions and lead to more objective conclusions IMO.
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473 nm | 100 mW | Jet Lasers PL-E Pro (Review)
520 nm | 1 W | Wicked Lasers Krypton
532 nm | 100 mW | Wicked Lasers Evo
532 nm | 800 mW | Sky Lasers PL

532 nm | 1.4+ W | Optotronics RPL-II
589 nm | 50 mW | Dragon Lasers Spartan
635 nm | 750 mW | Wicked Lasers Inferno
1 W RGB projector
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Laserpainting artworks:
LPF thread: Radim's laser painting
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Old 06-07-2017, 02:00 PM #23
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Default Re: Reputation system: meaning & value

Thank you Bruce for thinking I am worthy.
Don't take the rep system too seriously.
And you are not far off being a vet.
And no, you are not one yourself for raising your opinion.
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Jetlasers PLE Pro's

If you are after an RGB module, you can't go wrong with Optlasers. Their 400mW model is very high quality.
Optlasers RGB Modules

Optotronics offers some of the highest output DPSS Portable Greens on the market. Their 1.4W RPL-II is by far their most amazing product and is known to be overspec.
Optotronics RPL 532nm DPSS Portables

Dragon Lasers offers the best option for 589nm (Yellow) Laser pointers.
Dragon Lasers Yellow Laser Pointers

Sanwu are known to be very high quality and every newcomer should check them out.
Sanwu Home

Bang good is a good source for many electrical items and are often cheap and reliable.
Bang Good Home

For reliable safety goggles visit Survival Laser. Use LPF445 for a 10% member discount.
Eagle Pair Safety Goggles

For more sites and information please check out this thread.
Which company should I buy from? By Sta




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Last edited by CurtisOliver; 06-07-2017 at 02:08 PM.
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Old 06-07-2017, 02:09 PM #24
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Default Re: Reputation system: meaning & value

Thank you Radim and Curtis!!!!!
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473nm Laserbtb PL 30mw
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532nm 80mw pen
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593.5nm CNI PGL 30mw
638nm Laserbtb pen 20mw
638nm Laserbtb pen 120mw
650nm Laserbtb HL 100mw
650nm Laserbtb HL 200mw
650nm Laserbtb PL 200mw
650nm Sci Fi SFCR 200mw
655nm /532nm CNI PGL-RG 200mw
808nm Laserbtb HL 1000mw





Casa CTL-HM Laser Projector
532nm 100 mw 650nm 200 mw 450 nm 300 mw
Laser King LK-PD2 Laser Projector
532nm 100 mw 638nm 100 mw 450 nm 300 mw
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Old 06-07-2017, 02:15 PM #25
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Default Re: Reputation system: meaning & value

Nothing to thank for, Bruce. That is just how I see that. Whatever, you are welcome.
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Current collection:
405 nm | 500 mW | Wicked Lasers Lunar
445 nm | 3.5 W | Wicked Lasers Arctic
473 nm | 100 mW | Jet Lasers PL-E Pro (Review)
520 nm | 1 W | Wicked Lasers Krypton
532 nm | 100 mW | Wicked Lasers Evo
532 nm | 800 mW | Sky Lasers PL

532 nm | 1.4+ W | Optotronics RPL-II
589 nm | 50 mW | Dragon Lasers Spartan
635 nm | 750 mW | Wicked Lasers Inferno
1 W RGB projector
(+ some laser pointers)

Laserpainting artworks:
LPF thread: Radim's laser painting
Latest laserpainting: Soul in the Surreal world
Instagram: @radimmatera

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Old 06-07-2017, 02:21 PM #26
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Default Re: Reputation system: meaning & value

What Radim said.
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If you are after an RGB module, you can't go wrong with Optlasers. Their 400mW model is very high quality.
Optlasers RGB Modules

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Old 06-07-2017, 02:28 PM #27
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Default Re: Reputation system: meaning & value

As a new guy in this forum, i have looked at the REP system like a participation rating. Its shows that you participate and contribute to the forum and if other members like your post, they give you some REP! Nothing more and nothing less! I do not understand all the drama!
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Old 06-07-2017, 02:37 PM #28
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Default Re: Reputation system: meaning & value

79 posts 2947 reps I guess they love you!
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Old 06-07-2017, 02:39 PM #29
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Default Re: Reputation system: meaning & value

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vetttech View Post
As a new guy in this forum, i have looked at the REP system like a participation rating. Its shows that you participate and contribute to the forum and if other members like your post, they give you some REP! Nothing more and nothing less! I do not understand all the drama!

The problem is people dishing out reps for no real reason, for posts that don't really contribute anything. Of course, those people then rep the people that repped them as a thanks for the +rep.

It used to be based on technical contributions, good sale/trade experiences, things like that.
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Old 06-07-2017, 02:44 PM #30
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Default Re: Reputation system: meaning & value

Yes, I know I'm guilty of that as well as many others.
It is just out of politeness.
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Optotronics offers some of the highest output DPSS Portable Greens on the market. Their 1.4W RPL-II is by far their most amazing product and is known to be overspec.
Optotronics RPL 532nm DPSS Portables

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Bang good is a good source for many electrical items and are often cheap and reliable.
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Old 06-07-2017, 03:04 PM #31
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Default Re: Reputation system: meaning & value

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vetttech View Post
As a new guy in this forum, i have looked at the REP system like a participation rating. Its shows that you participate and contribute to the forum and if other members like your post, they give you some REP! Nothing more and nothing less! I do not understand all the drama!
One of the problems - if you had participated in the past (everything else remains unchanged) your rep would be much lower than it is now (as there are higher scores given, due to higher scores already acquired). Now take a look on the rep of some member registered in the past with much more contribution than you but not active for some time after - he was able to rise even more rep given (in terms of number of "positive rep button" clicks), but received far less points than you now. Just because of the inflation behaviour of rep it is not easily comparable number within time, therefore the value of one rep point is somehow lower than it was in the past.

Not only the comparsion of the rep score number does not make sense, but might be misleading for those not aware of inflation - like newcomers searching for advanced advice. They might be not sure who is more experienced and trustworthy - could be even crucial if he is asking some safety stuff in case of laser accident/incident and A (with higher rep) says he is ok and B (with lower one) says he might be ok likely, but definitely should seek doctor ASAP to make sure there is no eye damage. The guy affected by laser accident/incident might gain false belief seeing doctor is not needed (as thinking B with lower rep is exagerating). But as more experienced B is aware that laser used was 3B class (for example) and that description of incident/accident might be highly inaccurate, he advises to see the doctor in any case as no other advice can be given. This is kind of stupid example, but just for illustration how irrelevant it is to compare this number. (It is stupid as there will be much more members advising to see the doctor, as it is usual.)

Instead some other references should be used as I propose to use signature to show your selected contributions here, lasers you use and maybe introduce yourself a bit to beat this problem. Whatever there is place to be used creatively and why not to use it for this reference?

Anyway it is not needed (even not recommended) to take the reps too seriously as you wrote. From your post I think you found its purpose and some value in that - this is completely legit IMO.
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Old 06-07-2017, 03:29 PM #32
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Default Re: Reputation system: meaning & value

" So in my particular case, a few days ago, I was laser class 1 if I did not, now from this morning did I find class 2 that mean these classes? Especially that it means class 1M 2M 3.4, and so on "
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