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View Poll Results: Should we ask Avery to exclude the "Other" section from the post count ?
YES: exclude all the "Other" section posts from the counters 16 51.61%
NO: Keep the "Other" section posts counted together wit all the others 9 29.03%
I DON'T CARE AT ALL: nuff said 6 19.35%
Voters: 31. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-17-2009, 03:27 PM   #1
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Question Should we ask Avery to exclude the posts in the "Other" section from the post count ?

PLEASE READ BEFORE SHOOT

Basically, i've seen different reactions about the fact that also the posts in the "other" section increase the post counters of the users, especially about the "fun / jokes" threads ..... Someone approves, someone don't care , and someone complain that, using these posts, newbies and low-post users artificiously increase their posts and rep power, without help the forum or the other users.

I'm not saying that this is true or not, cause, usually, i care much more about users acts, than about users post counters, but i understand that other peoples have different evaluation systems than mine (hey, it's just normal, this ..... after all, we're all humans, more or less )

OK, the "problem" (if the majority judge this a problem), can be easily solved excluding the whole "Other" section from the post count function, so any post made there, don't increase the counters ..... but cause this need to be done from Avery, modifying the option in the VBulletin script, i think that we need a poll for know what the majority of the users think, about this, so also Avery can have an idea and decide what he prefer (always, if the operation don't cause problems to Avery in the management of the forum script, ofcourse).

Now, the question of the poll is:

Should we ask Avery to exclude the posts in the "Other" section from the post count ?

BTW: Before vote, think about a thing, for not have to complain after (cause, remember, once you've voted, you cannot retreat your vote, at least as far as i know).

If Avery implement this function, the more probable effect is that all the users that have posted in the "Other" section, lost the posts that they have made there from their counters, same as when, usually, you delete a thread (i'm not 100% sure about this, but in some versions of VBulletin, excluding a section from the post count, delete also the posts of the users that have posted there ..... ask Avery for be sure, if you're preoccupied for this)

Also, please don't turn this poll in a flamewar, ok ? ..... there's no reason for this ..... discuss freely, post your impressions and ideas about the subject of the poll, explain why yes or not, but NO FLAMES, please (otherwise, i come there and bite your ..... er ..... ahem, nevermind )

Ok, being the first one that throwed the stone , i suppose i have to vote first ..... i vote yes, cause, as i've already said, in this way, none have to complain for excessive "fun types" posts in "Other" section, and cause, basically, also if i lost my post counts from that section, this is not a problem, for me.

EDIT: forgot to say, i've set 30 days as deadline for this poll.
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Old 11-17-2009, 03:53 PM   #2
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Default Re: Should we ask Avery to exclude the posts in the "Other" section from the post cou

IMO the rep system and post count dont mean a thing...unless your a trader.

I personaly would like to see the rep system gone and if traders want feed back they just set up a poll of themselves in the BTS section with a simple 'good trader, bad trader and neutral trader' vote option ppl can vote and leave comments there.

Ive been on forums a long, long time and never thought of post counts as meaning anything, except they have been a member longer or just more active.

Based on what ive wrote, im going Dont Care.
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Old 11-17-2009, 04:40 PM   #3
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Default Re: Should we ask Avery to exclude the posts in the "Other" section from the post cou

At first I thought no, but thinking about it I can understand where your coming from because I have seen a few members where in the space of being here for a few months has racked up a 12 post a day statistic, which most posts pretty much consist of "lol"

As for removing the rep system, I disagree. I find the rep system really helpfull to judge what kind of member it is. You can usually get a good idea of what rep is un meaningfull and what is just from reading the comments
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Old 11-17-2009, 04:53 PM   #4
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Default Re: Should we ask Avery to exclude the posts in the "Other" section from the post cou

That is the way it was set up in the old software. I thought that it could not be done in this new software.

I support NOT counting the "off topic" in post count. Off topic is fun and necessary in a forum, but I do not believe it should "add to" a persons credibility. Post count does mean something. We attribute much to how long and active a person has been in the forum. However, "off topic" posts do not show any LASER related experience or knowledge.

If it can be excluded from "counting" it should be excluded.

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Old 11-17-2009, 05:07 PM   #5
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Default Re: Should we ask Avery to exclude the posts in the "Other" section from the post cou

Speaking of rep, is there any way of getting rid of the rep the forum idiot gave me, without neg repping me?
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Old 11-17-2009, 05:14 PM   #6
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Default Re: Should we ask Avery to exclude the posts in the "Other" section from the post cou

People should not use the post count to evaluate someone's credibility. I don't think it need to be changed, as the post count is just a representation of the person social activity on the forum....even if it's in the "other" section.
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Old 11-17-2009, 05:33 PM   #7
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Default Re: Should we ask Avery to exclude the posts in the "Other" section from the post cou

Quote:
Originally Posted by daguin View Post
That is the way it was set up in the old software. I thought that it could not be done in this new software.
I'm not sure, cause i don't know exactly what version Avery is using, actually ..... i only remember that in the "enable/disable features" of the forums administrative section, there was an option called, more or les, "count posts made in this forum as user posts" (or something similar), for exclude or include forums in counters ..... i'm sorry i cannot be more precise, is a lot of time that i don't play with VB .....



Quote:
Originally Posted by jaycey View Post
Speaking of rep, is there any way of getting rid of the rep the forum idiot gave me, without neg repping me?
Uh, sorry ..... what do you man ? ..... If you mean that there is someone that give you false or artificiously distorted neg reps, the only way for manage it is to PM Avery and expose the problem, and let him judge what to do ..... as far as i remember, only admin can manage this.
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Old 11-17-2009, 05:33 PM   #8
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Default Re: Should we ask Avery to exclude the posts in the "Other" section from the post cou

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohrenberg View Post
People should not use the post count to evaluate someone's credibility. I don't think it need to be changed, as the post count is just a representation of the person social activity on the forum....even if it's in the "other" section.
I agree that in most cases they shouldn't, but they do.

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Old 11-17-2009, 05:34 PM   #9
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Default Re: Should we ask Avery to exclude the posts in the "Other" section from the post cou

Quote:
Originally Posted by daguin View Post
That is the way it was set up in the old software. I thought that it could not be done in this new software.

I support NOT counting the "off topic" in post count. Off topic is fun and necessary in a forum, but I do not believe it should "add to" a persons credibility. Post count does mean something. We attribute much to how long and active a person has been in the forum. However, "off topic" posts do not show any LASER related experience or knowledge.

If it can be excluded from "counting" it should be excluded.

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dave
What he said.

If it can be done, it should be done. Just like it used to be.
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Old 11-18-2009, 11:06 AM   #10
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Default Re: Should we ask Avery to exclude the posts in the "Other" section from the post cou

Quote:
That is the way it was set up in the old software. I thought that it could not be done in this new software.
Quote:
If it can be done, it should be done. Just like it used to be.
What's the argument here? New things are bad for being new?

Quote:
I support NOT counting the "off topic" in post count. Off topic is fun and necessary in a forum, but I do not believe it should "add to" a persons credibility.
Since when does the post count means we can believe someone? No, really, tell me why you believe more someone that posted 50 posts about his new laser pointer than someone who posted 50 posts about religion (using this example because the LPF religion thread is one of the biggest ones there)

Quote:
Post count does mean something.
Yes. It counts your posts. I can't read it says "laser related posts count"

Quote:
We attribute much to how long and active a person has been in the forum.
Well, this is in fact your problem!

Quote:
However, "off topic" posts do not show any LASER related experience or knowledge.
but well they are posts too and the counter is just counting posts, anything else. Reputation is what is supposed to show someone's behavior...
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Old 11-18-2009, 12:08 PM   #11
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Default Re: Should we ask Avery to exclude the posts in the "Other" section from the post cou

To be honest I didn't care at first, and was leaning most towards not counting those posts, but after thinking it over I am probably voting no for these three reasons:

1) I do not think post count gives credibility anyway, so I do not care how high a person's post count is.

2) Many posts in the Other section still show social activity on the forum. Often people are helpful, get to know each other, have interesting discussions and such there, so if you do not agree with my first point, I think their post count should still show some sort of credibility to you. You can very quickly find out if all their posts are located in more worthless threads such as the 3 word story, or if they are actually contributing.

3) People are always going to spam "wow", "cool", "that was so funny" and such comments, some of them to get their post count up. Is it not best that they do it in the off topic section so they don't start spamming the more important laser discussions?

I think it would be in the best interests of the forum to keep it the way it is. I am going to wait with my vote in case someone has some very good counter arguments, but currently I am leaning very much towards a no.

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Old 11-18-2009, 12:33 PM   #12
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Default Re: Should we ask Avery to exclude the posts in the "Other" section from the post cou

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hallucynogenyc View Post
What's the argument here? New things are bad for being new?

Since when does the post count means we can believe someone? No, really, tell me why you believe more someone that posted 50 posts about his new laser pointer than someone who posted 50 posts about religion (using this example because the LPF religion thread is one of the biggest ones there)

Yes. It counts your posts. I can't read it says "laser related posts count"

Well, this is in fact your problem!

but well they are posts too and the counter is just counting posts, anything else. Reputation is what is supposed to show someone's behavior...
You cannot take the sentences apart, switch the order, and argue them one by one. The meaning is affected and supported by those around them.

For example the first two sentences were not an argument at all. They were simply exposing the reason I had not said anything before.

You also have to read subsequent answers. I deal with at least one of your questions in a later post.

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Old 11-18-2009, 12:47 PM   #13
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Default Re: Should we ask Avery to exclude the posts in the "Other" section from the post cou

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hallucynogenyc View Post
What's the argument here? New things are bad for being new?

Because this still being a somewhat scientific forum, I personally view posts/post counts as a contribution/s to the forums knowledge database. Can you honestly say that a post containing a single sentence or three words is an equal contribution to the knowledge contained on this forum, to a post in which a member spends 15 minutes of his life to instruct a newcomer or one of Igor's essay posts?

After all, the post count not only "counts posts", but is seen a measure of a members contribution to the forum.



Since when does the post count means we can believe someone? No, really, tell me why you believe more someone that posted 50 posts about his new laser pointer than someone who posted 50 posts about religion (using this example because the LPF religion thread is one of the biggest ones there)

Post count apparently must mean something, as it is required of a member to post 1000 posts to become a "veteran". Don't ya think?



Yes. It counts your posts. I can't read it says "laser related posts count"

Again it is a measure of contribution, not how many completely irrelevant posts one can manage in the off-topic section.

This is why I believe post count should only reflect on-topic (laser related posts) which contain knowledge or help new members. But this is only my .02
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Old 11-18-2009, 01:12 PM   #14
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Wink Re: Should we ask Avery to exclude the posts in the "Other" section from the post cou

No flames, please (i'm sharpening my teeth, LOL)


Anyway, seriously ..... as i've said ..... the main reason for which i've opened this poll, is that, more or less, the ones that complain about this, have as reason that the post counters DO affect the reputation counter, too ..... so, left me explain better my thoughs (and please, no eggs throwing )

I agree with the ones that says that, being a post count, it just count the posts, and being the "fun" ones always posts, must be counted together the others ..... but this, as the ones that complain says, affect also the rep counters, and i have to agree also with those that say that is not a right (good ?) practic, that of continuously post in fun/other section just for increase their rep level, doing nothing helpful for noone .....

From the other side, is not a good thing, imho, just detach completely the rep counter from the post counter (also if this was possible easily) ..... after all, the ones that are active on the forum, interventing in discussions, contributing with ideas, making and answering to questions, and so on, still deserve some rep for their efforts, so is, imho, not correct just say "then take apart the rep counter and don't increase it with the post counts" ..... this can cause a lot of different problems, so the actual system, i think, is ok as it is.

So, the only logical solution, at least til someone don't propose something better, perhaps to left all as is, about counters, just excluding from post counts (and consequently from rep counts) all those "fun" posts, that, as Dave said, are needed in a normal forum (i do jokes, too ..... imho, can be a very sad forum, if the rules say "no jokes at all", you don't think ?), but have no worth in increasing rep of the users.

I mean, what may say to other users, my rep, at the end, if i get it just making 4000 spam/fun/jokes posts in "other" section and 10 in helpful posts ? ..... how can other users have an idea about me, in this way ? (apart classifying me as a clown ? ) ..... so, perhaps, this one seem the only way, also cause is much more easy to set up this, than to set up separate databases for make the posts still count all, but only the helpful ones increase the rep counts ..... as far as i remember, VB had no options like this one, and can be a nightmare, modify the whole script just for obtain this, when is enough change a "yes" to a "no" in an already present option .....

Anyway, as i've already said, this is a poll for give to Avery an idea about the "problem" and what the users think, but remember that is still his choice, at the end, to decide what to do (for this, i asked for no flames ..... )
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Old 11-18-2009, 01:50 PM   #15
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Default Re: Should we ask Avery to exclude the posts in the "Other" section from the post cou

@Dave: I now see your next post, but I hope you got my point anyway

@brtaman: your are making it look like if all posts on the offtopic section were useless "one line" posts and all the posts in the laser sections were contributions while there's about the same amount of short useless posts in both sections.

Quote:
This is why I believe post count should only reflect on-topic (laser related posts) which contain knowledge or help new members.
This is a completely different thing than not counting posts in the other section.

just pick some random threads on the laser related threads and count how many of the posts "contain knowledge or help new members".
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Old 11-18-2009, 03:11 PM   #16
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Default Re: Should we ask Avery to exclude the posts in the "Other" section from the post cou

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Originally Posted by Hallucynogenyc View Post
Quote:
This is why I believe post count should only reflect on-topic (laser related posts) which contain knowledge or help new members.
This is a completely different thing than not counting posts in the other section.

just pick some random threads on the laser related threads and count how many of the posts "contain knowledge or help new members".
I totally agree with your point, but there is a practical difficult, doing it ..... you need:

A) a software piece like IA, with discriminative and valutative ability same as the ones of a real person, for manage all the posts (that we still don't have)

or

B) a mod or admin that pass all the time, 24/7, in front of the pc, evaluating the posts with helpful contents, and add the related counts manually for any user, and reject all the rest (a little bit unpracticable, imho )

I agree, excluding the "fun" posts from the counters, is not the better solution, cause, as you said, also the other sections can contain useless posts ..... it's just a way for get managed at least part of the problem ..... i mean, if we, ofcourse, cannot have a full management and division of all the unhelpful posts, with this system, can at least limit the things .....
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