Should DarkArmyofOne be Banned?

I admit my logic was faulty and I didn't really make any good arguments, I guess the human mind is just programmed to stand up for people that have helped you in the past. My main point is that I think we should look past the return trick incident, because Dark have contributed so much to the forum that a thing like this shouldn't get him banned.

And also, dagiun, I want you to understand that I have never done the trick myself, I haven't even found a nearby norwegian store that stocks BDR-203's yet.

I understand wanting to help those who have helped you in the past, but Dark's past dishonesty makes it impossible for me to believe he will always be a good member and businessman from here on out.

Grix said:

I admit my logic was faulty and I didn't really make any good arguments, I guess the human mind is just programmed to stand up for people that have helped you in the past. My main point is that I think we should look past the return trick incident, because Dark have contributed so much to the forum that a thing like this shouldn't get him banned.

And also, dagiun, I want you to understand that I have never done the trick myself, I haven't even found a nearby norwegian store that stocks BDR-203's yet.

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I apologize. I should not have made the leap to a personalized statement. I should have remained at the concept level. Thank you for reminding me that we are talking about ideas and ideals here.

Perhaps you could elaborate on the underlined portion of your statement above. What do you believe that he has contributed to the forum that should outweigh:
1) his negative actions in the above matter of the returned drive,
2) his poor treatment of his customers (outlined in other threads),
3) his use of a wholly illegal sales technique (bait and switch),
4) and the knowledgeable retention of property mistakenly shipped to him? (He "made it right" only after being caught and "forced" to pay.)

These four things don't even begin to touch on the lies he told to boost his sales

Peace,
dave

gave an example to my young son on what not to do and why... people are a very astute to theft and plain wrong doing. He's waiting to join by the way .

Originally Posted by Darkarmyofone
have a panasonic and an LG 8x on hand right now, "their not mine" but i'll report back, AMAZING price... but we all gotta stop doing the return trick... because yes... 90% of the time you get another free 8x...

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now he knows at least to watch out for one more way someone can screw you
a... parted drive. :tsk:

Shame,shame thats gonna hurt in the ol' business department. Posting that you did the diode swap and returning the drive is very for dishonest for sure, no defense. It's also illegal CMIIW



I highlighted in your quote were you said "we gotta stop" who pray tell are these other members lets call them out. KAY!

Sorry for your luck my forum brother... good thing for you this LPF is full of very forgiving people as the poll reflects.

I realize that this is none of my buss., but I am a forum member so when I read this thread and it's contents I find it to be very disturbing behavior for a group composed of scientist and such.

daguin said:

I apologize. I should not have made the leap to a personalized statement. I should have remained at the concept level. Thank you for reminding me that we are talking about ideas and ideals here.

Perhaps you could elaborate on the underlined portion of your statement above. What do you believe that he has contributed to the forum that should outweigh:
1) his negative actions in the above matter of the returned drive,
2) his poor treatment of his customers (outlined in other threads),
3) his use of a wholly illegal sales technique (bait and switch),
4) and the knowledgeable retention of property mistakenly shipped to him? (He "made it right" only after being caught and "forced" to pay.)

These four things don't even begin to touch on the lies he told to boost his sales

Peace,
dave

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As for point 2), the customes he have treated very well outweights the customers that were not treated as well, for example, Dark has been very cooperative and generous to me, the $10 build service turned into a nightmare for us, with the first phr build dying within one hour, then both the second and third build got lost in the mail. Now he is building me a 6x to compensate for my loss even though he is the real loser here, when he's out hundreds of $ worth of lasers.

Except for that, he is helping new members, like every contributing forum member, plus he runs dark lasers, which arguably is a good laser-shop with competitive prices.

And last, let's not forget that he is a LPF sponsor, and donates a lot of money to keep LPF running.

Whether the bad outweights the good is up to each person to decide, and currently the score is Yes: 17, No: 29

Grix said:

As for point 2), the customes he have treated very well outweights the customers that were not treated as well, for example, Dark has been very cooperative and generous to me, the $10 build service turned into a nightmare for us, with the first phr build dying within one hour, then both the second and third build got lost in the mail. Now he is building me a 6x to compensate for my loss even though he is the real loser here, when he's out hundreds of $ worth of lasers.

So basically you're saying it's OK for Dark to act unprofessionally and maintain an inconsistent level of customer service? It's OK to show favoritism in the interest of throwing public opinion off?

Except for that, he is helping new members, like every contributing forum member, plus he runs dark lasers, which arguably is a good laser-shop with competitive prices.

Well, good for him! I wonder if he'll use that to take attention off of all the BS he pulls?

And last, let's not forget that he is a LPF sponsor, and donates a lot of money to keep LPF running.

mmhmmm.. Once again, I wonder if he'll use that to take attention off of all the BS he pulls?

Whether the bad outweights the good is up to each person to decide, and currently the score is Yes: 17, No: 29

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So it is.. but there is only one right answer. If a person repeatedly steals, lies, and treats their customers badly, they should be dealt with accordingly. Even if they don't do it to everyone. One time is one too many.. ZERO tolerance for illegal and dishonest activities, regardless of whether the perpetrator kisses another person's ass or not. It's only fair.

The message you (and others) are sending here is that it's OK to be dishonest as long as there are enough people who like you (who's assees you've kissed) around to throw public opinion off. That's BS..

Grix said:

As for point 2), the customes he have treated very well outweights the customers that were not treated as well, for example, Dark has been very cooperative and generous to me, the $10 build service turned into a nightmare for us, with the first phr build dying within one hour, then both the second and third build got lost in the mail. Now he is building me a 6x to compensate for my loss even though he is the real loser here, when he's out hundreds of $ worth of lasers.

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If you actually believe what you have typed herein you are much more gullible than I am. The first build should have never failed in that manner. He built a poor laser and yours was not alone. Also, I and many others, have been shipping lasers and other things through the mail for years. In all that time I have had TWO packages (international) lost. To believe that two packages mailed to you got "lost" is beyond the realm of acceptable odds making. You are listening to the man who is telling you lies. I have no reason to lie about such things here. He does. He still has your money AFTER selling you a faulty laser and then lying about two packages being lost in the mail to you. And BTW how much did your $10 build actually end up costing you?

Grix said:

Except for that, he is helping new members, like every contributing forum member, plus he runs dark lasers, which arguably is a good laser-shop with competitive prices.

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You say he is helping new members, but have no examples of any new member he has helped without it bringing him a profit. That is not "help." It is salesmanship. Dark Lasers does not help the forum. It helps him make money. It all that much anyway

http://www.websiteoutlook.com/www.darklasers.com Est. worth $839.50 -- Daily ad revenue $1.15

Grix said:

And last, let's not forget that he is a LPF sponsor, and donates a lot of money to keep LPF running.

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Once again, this is not help. It is advertising. He has not "contributed" a thing (if I am wrong about anonymous donation, c0ld can step in). He TALKS about contributing, but nothing ever shows up. Many other members here actually do make monthly and periodic donations to the forum as well as donating merchandise and time to keep the forum viable. The Dark Lasers ad's contribute no more than the Wicked Lasers ad's do.

Grix said:

Whether the bad outweights the good is up to each person to decide, and currently the score is Yes: 17, No: 29

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And this is why we debate. Not everyone has the info needed to make an informed decision.

Peace,
dave

P.S. You are also wrong about the number of "good" transactions compared to the number of "bad" transactions.

You also seem to have ignored; 1, 3, 4 and his lies

daguin said:

If you actually believe what you have typed herein you are much more gullible than I am. The first build should have never failed in that manner. He built a poor laser and yours was not alone. Also, I and many others, have been shipping lasers and other things through the mail for years. In all that time I have had TWO packages (international) lost. To believe that two packages mailed to you got "lost" is beyond the realm of acceptable odds making. You are listening to the man who is telling you lies. I have no reason to lie about such things here. He does. He still has your money AFTER selling you a faulty laser and then lying about two packages being lost in the mail to you. And BTW how much did your $10 build actually end up costing you?

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Why would he lie? That sounds like some hippie question lol, but seriously, he hasn't profited anything, even if he did lie. The only thing he has achieved is stretching out time and having to spend more time answering my PM's. I paid $80 for the phr build. Then I paid another $60 to get both tracked shipping and a GGW instead after the failed deliveries. I would say $140 is a great price for a brand new GGW build with tracked shipping. (Remember shipping is at least $20 by itself)

daguin said:

You say he is helping new members, but have no examples of any new member he has helped without it bringing him a profit.

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Ten seconds of searching gave me this:

http://laserpointerforums.com/f50/possible-420ma-rkcstr-powered-2x-10440-a-43864.html

I'm sure there are many other examples.

daguin said:

Once again, this is not help. It is advertising. He has not "contributed" a thing (if I am wrong about anonymous donation, c0ld can step in). He TALKS about contributing, but nothing ever shows up. Many other members here actually do make monthly and periodic donations to the forum as well as donating merchandise and time to keep the forum viable. The Dark Lasers ad's contribute no more than the Wicked Lasers ad's do.

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Advertising is a form of contributing. It results in money for LPF (and for dark, but that is irrelevant here), and if LPF had no advertisers, there wouldn't be a LPF. And as you said, in this sense, Wicked Lasers are contributing to the forum too, yes.

daguin said:

And this is why we debate. Not everyone has the info needed to make an informed decision.

Peace,
dave

P.S. You are also wrong about the number of "good" transactions compared to the number of "bad" transactions.

You also seem to have ignored; 1, 3, 4 and his lies

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I didn't ignore anything, I agree with you at those points. But I still think the good overweights the bad, and as you said, that's why we debate.

I'm done with this thread now.

Hmmm. I wonder what Dark could have done to cause Grix to ignore is own moral compass and repeatedly defend a proven thief? Maybe this:

Grix said:

Dark has been very cooperative and generous to me, the $10 build service turned into a nightmare for us, with the first phr build dying within one hour, then both the second and third build got lost in the mail. Now he is building me a 6x to compensate for my loss even though he is the real loser here, when he's out hundreds of $ worth of lasers.

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Wow... apparently if you kiss someone's ass, they'll defend you no matter what you do.. right Dark?

ElektroFreak said:

Hmmm. I wonder what Dark could have done to cause Grix to ignore is own moral compass and repeatedly defend a proven thief? Maybe this:



Wow... apparently if you kiss someone's ass, they'll defend you no matter what you do.. right Dark?

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Amazing what ego involvement will do to the thought process. He agreed that 4 out of 5 negatives were true, but still chose to defend Tyler. Even in the "example" he found, Tyler was promoting him, selling hosts different than what the person was asking about.

It's tough to admit when you've been duped. It shows weakness and victim status, I guess. Plus, Tyler still has his money (more than he was first quoted BTW) AND still doesn't have his laser!?!

Maybe he is subconsciously afraid that Tyler will cut him off and just "lose" another package on him. He is all proud of the fact that Tyler got him to pay more money for his own "apology" upgrade.

IDK -- Maybe it is just that customer service sucks so badly in Norway, that he thinks that this is normal. If that is the case, then it must be a sad state of affairs indeed

Peace,
dave

Wow nice flamefest you guys should really calm down.. I know I may not be well respected around here yet, but I still get my equal say. Well as far as I see, DAoO seems to not of ripped anyone off, there was talk about some problems but as far as I read they all seemed to be resolved. Second, I don't see why the returned drive is really any of anyone's business, whether or not he mentioned it on the forum. Third, people really seem to jump on the flame wagon and I don't really see why everyone suddenly hates Dark, I for one, really like the guy, as I have gotten to know him a bit, you may all hate me for posting this as it seems like its hate DAoO or GTFO around here, but whatever. BTW Elektro It's spelled "thief" not "theif, I don't see why you are starting an absolute sh!t campaign on Dark......

-Marc
Let The Fire Commence....

ilikeadabox said:

Wow nice flamefest you guys should really calm down.. I know I may not be well respected around here yet, but I still get my equal say. Well as far as I see, DAoO seems to not of ripped anyone off, there was talk about some problems but as far as I read they all seemed to be resolved. Second, I don't see why the returned drive is really any of anyone's business, whether or not he mentioned it on the forum. Third, people really seem to jump on the flame wagon and I don't really see why everyone suddenly hates Dark, I for one, really like the guy, as I have gotten to know him a bit, you may all hate me for posting this as it seems like its hate DAoO or GTFO around here, but whatever. BTW Elektro It's spelled "thief" not "theif, I don't see why you are starting an absolute sh!t campaign on Dark......

-Marc

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Thanks for the edit.. nice to know you can spell.

I started it because he's a thIEf.. do I need more of a reason? Please explain why...

You guys are obviously not hearing me. I don't give a crap who I piss off here with this. Not even slightly. You can bitch, but I ain't carin'..
Until Dark leaves, or I get banned (certainly possible..) this is how it is.. I HATE thieves.

ElektroFreak;598682[B said:

Thanks for the edit.. nice to know you can spell.[/B]
Sure thing captain
I started it because he's a thIEf.. do I need more of a reason? Please explain why...
and I'm sure that you have NEVER stolen ANYTHING in your life......

You guys are obviously not hearing me. I don't give a crap who I piss off here with this. Not even slightly. You can bitch, but I ain't carin'..
Until Dark leaves, or I get banned (certainly possible..) this is how it is.. I HATE thieves.

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LOL people are funny creatures....:crackup:

ilikeadabox said:

LOL people are funny creatures....:crackup:

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keep on trollin', bro.. I gots all night. People are enjoying this entertainment, no doubt.

ilikeadabox said:

Wow nice flamefest you guys should really calm down.. I know I may not be well respected around here yet, but I still get my equal say. Well as far as I see, DAoO seems to not of ripped anyone off, there was talk about some problems but as far as I read they all seemed to be resolved. Second, I don't see why the returned drive is really any of anyone's business, whether or not he mentioned it on the forum. Third, people really seem to jump on the flame wagon and I don't really see why everyone suddenly hates Dark, I for one, really like the guy, as I have gotten to know him a bit, you may all hate me for posting this as it seems like its hate DAoO or GTFO around here, but whatever. BTW Elektro It's spelled "thief" not "theif, I don't see why you are starting an absolute sh!t campaign on Dark......

-Marc

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And you are welcomed to your opinion. If you want to "know" what else went on, send me a PM, or better yet, look up the old sale and build threads of his and read why and when he stopped doing business here. Because you are totally wrong about him not ripping people off.

How about selling $88 worth of parts, that was put together poorly for $300 and him telling the person that it was that much because he was using "high quality parts." I will agree that he has the right to sell his wares for whatever he wants. AND I have the right to call him out on it. You have the right to pay him that kind of usury. AND I have the right to try to educate you so you don't have to.

It is a strange culture that is attempting to be built here. People want to "know" (That is to have it proven to them individually) that a bad thing happened. Yet when we write about the bad things happening, they want us to stop the "flamewars" and all just get along.

You cannot have it both ways. If we all just get along, nobody finds out about bad merchants until they themselves get ripped off.

The saddest thing is, that most of the ones getting ripped off are NooB's that don't even know that they have been ripped off. These poor souls (like Grix above) THINK that Tyler is helping them and giving them something when in fact, they are paying for it (sometimes more than once).

What's an old guy to do?

Peace,
dave

ElektroFreak said:

keep on trollin', bro.. I gots all night. People are enjoying this entertainment, no doubt.

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