Why do you think IQ is bullshit?

oh yeah, I simply hate those ones. And in Mensa I know a few of them. I even know someone who eventually will show his Mensa identification card :wtf:

Hallucynogenyc said:

for me, they are almost synonyms.

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See, a perfect example of exactly how tests like IQ tests get expanded WAY beyond what they're designed and intended to do.

There is a big difference between aptitude tests (such as the SAT in the US, which try to measure aptitude, or potential), achievement tests, and intelligence tests. They all serve very different functions. They are often correlated, but they take very different approaches to both measurement and application of results.

An intelligence test does not generally seek to measure aptitude, and aptitude tests do not generally seek to measure intelligence. They are distinct ideas, and tests are designed by professionals to get at only certain aspects of either idea.

For example, the SAT in the United States generally tries to measure aptitude for college work, but also pulls elements of achievement into it. Because you can have the highest innate aptitude for math on earth, but if you have not had proper high school math education, your aptitude will be for naught when you get to college. A specific test must be carefully designed in order to measure some aspect of intelligence, aptitude, or achievement, and can't be expanded into any other area with any level of certainty. Correlations, sure, there are some, but correlations are of very limited usefulness.

I said almost synonyms. I don't mean they are technically the same, but that in my experience, they are very closely related

Hallucynogenyc said:

As far as I know the best the test is, the best the results dispersion represent a Gaussian curve. I'm really not a test expert, but there's people that work making tests and I'm sure there are not as many holes as you think. Did you ever investigate on that? I haven't, but it sounds like an interesting thing to me. I'll let you know if I ever find any good article hehe

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Again, on what scientific basis does a stupid puzzle question test intelligence? Who decides that ability to answer such a question equates to intelligence?

There is too much subjectivity in what is suppose to be an objective test. At best, it's a good qualitative assessment for efficiency, not "intelligence".

I trust IQ tests but you can have a high iq and know less than a person with half of your iq, it all depends on doing as much with what you have

digital_blue said:

Again, on what scientific basis does a stupid puzzle question test intelligence? Who decides that ability to answer such a question equates to intelligence?

There is too much subjectivity in what is suppose to be an objective test. At best, it's a good qualitative assessment for efficiency, not "intelligence".

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well, the experts do it. I really can't tell you, but do you really think if it was "that subjective" there would be people working on it? Why would so many companies use them on job interviews? I'm not an expert, but if the experts say it, I guess I'll have to accept it until I can prove them wrong xD

@MikeBP: yeah, and you can be very tall but still be very poor. So what's the point?

Hallucynogenyc said:

IQ measures the "potential" and not the "actual abilities", doesn't it?

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Lawl @ potential quotient. So are you going to be the one that tells the guy that scores a 74 he'll probably never amount to anything?

If anything, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. You may have heard of the study where teachers were given (bogus) student IQs at the beginning of the year and those students who had (bogus) higher IQs did better in school. Not because they were smarter, but because the teachers thought they were smarter and therefore gave them more attention/assistance.

Cyparagon said:

Lawl @ potential quotient. So are you going to be the one that tells the guy that scores a 74 he'll probably never amount to anything?

If anything, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. You may have heard of the study where teachers were given (bogus) student IQs at the beginning of the year and those students who had (bogus) higher IQs did better in school. Not because they were smarter, but because the teachers thought they were smarter and therefore gave them more attention/assistance.

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i never said that. What I mean that it will be more difficult for the guy with 74 than for someone with higher score to reach some goals. And I'm 200% sure on that. Then, it's obvious that with willpower, everything can be archived.

This is gonna sound ridiculous, but most of the Mensa members I know didn't have great marks on exams, and a big amount of them have no high studies!

Hallucynogenyc said:

well, the experts do it. I really can't tell you, but do you really think if it was "that subjective" there would be people working on it? Why would so many companies use them on job interviews? I'm not an expert, but if the experts say it, I guess I'll have to accept it until I can prove them wrong xD

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The thing is, companies don't use "IQ tests" on job interviews, they use aptitude tests on job interviews. Very different tests, for very different purposes. Those "experts" know this difference, and design their tests accordingly, and don't make the mistake of trying to apply their aptitude test to a person's overall intelligence, or even to their aptitude in other areas outside of what is tested.

All these tests run into big problems when you expand them beyond what they're intended to do. A job placement exam is pretty much never intended to measure overall intelligence.

Hallucynogenyc said:

This is gonna sound ridiculous, but most of the Mensa members I know didn't have great marks on exams, and a big amount of them have no high studies!

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And I have to get down to at least the 50th most intelligent person I know to find the first Mensa member.

yeah, well, it's not as "great" as it seems. I doubt I'm going to pay the fee on June. This half year membership has taught me a lot but also that there's nothing else than just that. I said on Mensa just as an example.

Also, what I really meant is that "those stupid puzzles" are used on a lot of job interviews, not that standard IQ tests are used on a lot of job interviews. My mistake there

Say, would mensa be a prime target during the zombie apocalypse?

It's a more random selection of the population than you would think xD

daguin said:

There are many "kinds" of genius.

There are many "kinds" of tests

Plus, the vast majority of them are both Euocentric or Americentric AND focused on the types of knowledge gained in urban scholastic settings.

Finally, your "test taking" skills influence your scores.

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Well said:beer:

I only consider it BS when IQ is used to promote, or push self-worth.

IQ tests have their place, but I've met a few people with extremely high IQs who can't function in day to day society due to their misguided perception that interpersonal relations have no importance whatsoever. They also have no filter to warn them that humility is a valued asset. They lord their "intelligence" over others without realizing that a truly intelligent person would see the value of coexisting, teamwork, and forming meaningful relationships. Most of them are not married or in relationships of any kind, they have no children, very few friends and the vast majority of the people they meet walk away from them having formed very negative opinions. It's a good thing they've got that high IQ score, because that's about all they've got. I wouldn't want an existence like that if I was paid to take it.

I know two kind of people who fit your description. I, as you, wouldn't like to be in any of the places.

The first ones, as you said, are the ones that have no friends, relations, or anything because people just run from them as they open their mouth. They think IQ is like a way to classify the society and that they're on the top of it. However, I have to say that those are the minority.

The second ones, are the ones that don't give a shit about the IQ itself, but they refuse to have friends or relations, because they just feel they don't fit into the society. This is a very common position for people with truly high IQ. With that I mean those above the 99.99...%. Those are the majority in the "high IQ with no friends" group.

As I said, I wouldn't like to be any of those for more that I was paid for it.

It has it's place is determining if mental cognitive problems exist in the persons brain due to injury or disease that can be affecting the patient. From the test it can be determined if a section of the brain is having immense difficulties even with people of a high IQ score or low IQ score. Best to be used as a tool for medicine rather than pompous self-importance assessments and a lot of people forget that (equal to those with high IQ and those without). Some idiot-savants can play a piece of music right after listening to the music without any prior practice but are mentally challenged in every other way, on an IQ test they would be proclaimed as genius but if you ever met them in person, it would be easy to say "if he has 180 IQ then I am shmucky the clown."