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Old 10-20-2008, 12:19 AM #17
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Default Re: What other hobby's do you do ??

I do skeet shooting, IPSC and some RC stuff....


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Old 10-20-2008, 01:13 AM #18
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Default Re: What other hobby's do you do ??

my bmw is my other hobby. also that kind of evolves auto crossing.

hmm any other hobbies? maybe some halo 3 lol not really a hobby but i enjoy it
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Old 10-20-2008, 04:07 AM #19
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Default Re: What other hobby's do you do ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by daguin
[quote author=rocketparrotlet link=1224429803/0#10 date=1224441686]What do you hunt the most ??
Furbearers (coyote, fox, bobcat)
Peace,
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Do you at least eat the meat? *Seems like a terrible waste of a life not to.

This is a very old argument. *It is also one that has never been actually thought through by the person making it. *The assumption in the argument is that the only justification for killing an animal is that the carcass is completely utilized by the person killing it or that the only reason to kill something is if one is going to eat it.

Those assumptions are false. *Neither of those conditions are required of any other segment of society, including the person making the argument (you). *

Do you at least consume the entrails of the pig that died for your bacon? *Do you at least suck the marrow out of the bones of the cow that died so that you could have a hamburger? *Do you at least use the claws of the chicken that died so that you could have chicken noodle soup to make a nice set of earrings? *The answer to these questions is, "Of course not." *We do not utilize the entire carcass of the animals we kill.

Sometimes the argument is made that with today's commercial meat processing industry that the entire carcass is utilized. *I will grant that, but it is utilized by someone other than the person who killed it or the person who ate it. *Also, much of the "unused" parts of the animals killed are actually used to feed other feed animals! * In nature, very little goes to waste. *The parts of the carcass that I leave in the field, feed other animals and organisms AND any parts not directly consumed by other animals and organisms is utilized in the soil to nourish plant life. That is how nature works. *In addition, would you prefer, for the animal that was killed, that it live on a commercial feedlot or in a cage for its entire life or wander in nature for its life?

As for the argument that the act of eating the animal is the only reason to kill it, I only have to ask you how you treat rats, spiders, snakes, ants, etc in your home or in nature. *There are many reason to kill a wild animal. *Eating them is one of the least used justifications.

Peace,
dave[/quote]

I definitely do see your point, but I still disagree. I am against killing unless it provides sustenance for another.

Since the teeth and claws of an animal are not nearly sharp or hard enough, as modern tools, and the bones more brittle, and the sinews and tendons less efficient than those products we can produce cheaper and more efficiently now, they are essentially useless. The only parts of the animals that are generally useful in modern society are the fur and the meat. Fur is used for clothing; however, there are more efficient alternatives to this as well that can provide greater warmth and less weight without anything needing to die.

This leaves only the meat of an animal. The meat is the most important and useful part of an animal because it provides a large amount of concentrated nutrition and energy, including proteins not found anywhere else in nature. These proteins are important for human growth and health, whereas fur is not essential to our highly developed society because there are other, more effective ways of providing warm clothing. This would be a different case in a less developed society where these more modern forms of keeping us warm are not readily available.

I do not believe that eating an animal would be the only reason to kill it. The other reasons I believe to be justifiable are if the animal is putting the life or safety of another human/pet in danger, or if the animal is causing damage to a source of food, and no other option is available.

Regarding the way that I treat unwanted animals in my home, whether they are rats, snakes, spiders, insects, etc., I always take them outside and put them back where they belong, which may mean a possible relocation. I never kill animals that I do not want in my house, including spiders such as black widows. I do not believe it is right to kill something if it is not for the reasons I described above.

I have thought out my argument fully, and I argue the same points that you have presented with myself on a regular basis. I almost always give thought to both sides of an argument before taking a position.

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Old 10-20-2008, 04:44 AM #20
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Default Re: What other hobby's do you do ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketparrotlet

I definitely do see your point, but I still disagree. *
As I do with you.

Peace,
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Old 10-20-2008, 07:41 AM #21
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Default Re: What other hobby's do you do ??

Lasers, high voltage, electronics, sound & lighting ....

I am also kinda fascinated with water, but those ones above are my main hobbies...
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Old 10-20-2008, 07:54 AM #22
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Default Re: What other hobby's do you do ??

Sporting clays, and hunting as well. *Sporting clays is the most enjoyable activity on earth to me (well, at least the most enjoyable that doesn't involve my wife *). *But alas, it is amazingly expensive, so I adopted my second hobby, lasers. *I now get to go shooting only about 3 or 4 times per year (when I had a good teenage job and fewer worries while in high school, I was shooting 30,000+ rounds per year through my shotgun, so you can see the decline that college and grad school have brought). But I love it, and I will have plenty of time and money for it once this PhD is out of the way and I'm making real money.


When hunting, my main prey is dove (goes well with the sporting clays shooting, eh?). *And to answer previous questions, while I generally do not personally eat the doves I kill, I give them to someone else. *When the limit is 12 doves in a day, there's barely enough there to fill a bowl of soup, hardly worth bothering to cook it. *So someone else can actually have a full meal of 24 doves while I get the enjoyment of a day in the field.
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Old 10-20-2008, 04:12 PM #23
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Default Re: What other hobby's do you do ??

Well I understand killing has always been around, and also different needs to kill.But are we the only ones that kill for fun? :-/ Somehow I still find the concept of killing for fun , entertainment or thrill rather unethical.I mean, you're causing some poor being a whole lot of pain for no benefit except some feeling of satisfaction that you don't really need or you can get elsewhere.And I find it wrong for us , as concious beings, concious of ourselves and the world around us to do such a thing. :-/ I mean, why not kill other people?Why not steal or blow-up cars or beat up random people on the street?That could be fun.Is the law the only thing that stops you? Or is the suffering of animals just less significant than people's? :P Well it is, but it isn't totaly insignificant, right? :-/
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Old 10-20-2008, 04:46 PM #24
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Default Re: What other hobby's do you do ??

yes switch, we get it



personally, I like aquascaping - here's a pic of my 5.5 gallon nano tank with 5 neon tetras, 2 glowlight tetras, a peppered cory catfish, and a bunch of ramshorn snails. Plants include Java fern, salvinia, and two others I can't think of the name for.

(man that picture came out really crooked)
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Old 10-20-2008, 05:07 PM #25
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Default Re: What other hobby's do you do ??

damn that tank looks awesome! what rocks did you use? i want to copy this tank!

wanna send me a pm maybe about what all you used exactly. what is the stuff floating on top? and what kind of sand did you use?


GREAT WORK!

you deff didnt over do it and the simple looks turned out AWESOME!
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Old 10-20-2008, 07:35 PM #26
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Default Re: What other hobby's do you do ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Switch
Well I understand killing has always been around, and also different needs to kill.But are we the only ones that kill for fun? :-/ Somehow I still find the concept of killing for fun , entertainment or thrill rather unethical.I mean, you're causing some poor being a whole lot of pain for no benefit except some feeling of satisfaction that you don't really need or you can get elsewhere.And I find it wrong for us , as concious beings, concious of ourselves and the world around us to do such a thing. :-/ I mean, why not kill other people?Why not steal or blow-up cars or beat up random people on the street?That could be fun.Is the law the only thing that stops you? Or is the suffering of animals just less significant than people's? :P Well it is, but it isn't totaly insignificant, right? :-/
I assume you don't hunt? Some people eat what they hunt, others kill for sport...
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Old 10-20-2008, 08:08 PM #27
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Default Re: What other hobby's do you do ??

Quote:
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But are we the only ones that kill for fun? :-/
At least wolverines and dolphins appear to kill just because they enjoy it. *Yes they are both predators, but they sometimes kill and walk (or swim) away.

As was pointed out in another thread, many of our "domestic" dogs and cats continue too kill even though they are well fed. *Do they "enjoy" it? *Who can say? *They certainly appear to be "aroused" by it.

Peace,
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Old 10-20-2008, 08:54 PM #28
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Default Re: What other hobby's do you do ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Switch
Well I understand killing has always been around, and also different needs to kill.But are we the only ones that kill for fun? :-/ Somehow I still find the concept of killing for fun , entertainment or thrill rather unethical.I mean, you're causing some poor being a whole lot of pain for no benefit except some feeling of satisfaction that you don't really need or you can get elsewhere.And I find it wrong for us , as concious beings, concious of ourselves and the world around us to do such a thing. :-/ I mean, why not kill other people?Why not steal or blow-up cars or beat up random people on the street?That could be fun.Is the law the only thing that stops you? Or is the suffering of animals just less significant than people's? :P Well it is, but it isn't totaly insignificant, right? :-/
Which is why I like (mostly) catch and release fishing.
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Old 10-20-2008, 10:00 PM #29
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Default Re: What other hobby's do you do ??

Well, other than lasers,



There's dogsport, to include

Schutzhund



and obedience



then there's cars...



I'm largely out of cars though. It's too expensive and takes too much damn work. I sold my cobra about four months ago, but I'm going to be buying an SRT8 Magnum come spring. I still want something sorta quick, but I don't want a true hobby car, so that fits.
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Old 10-20-2008, 10:26 PM #30
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Default Re: What other hobby's do you do ??

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[quote author=Switch link=1224429803/20#22 date=1224519148]But are we the only ones that kill for fun? :-/
At least wolverines and dolphins appear to kill just because they enjoy it. *Yes they are both predators, but they sometimes kill and walk (or swim) away.

As was pointed out in another thread, many of our "domestic" dogs and cats continue too kill even though they are well fed. *Do they "enjoy" it? *Who can say? *They certainly appear to be "aroused" by it.

Peace,
dave
[/quote]

Wolves also do this at times. *I have a friend in Idaho that has pictures of multiple fresh-killed elk (killed by wolves), all laying there barely touched or barely eaten, hundreds of pounds of meat left sitting untouched. *He has MANY of these kinds of images from snow mobile trips through the back country where the wolves will kill and not eat what they kill. *Several of the cases were of the wolves killing a pregnant elk, eating the fetus (apparently they like them), and leaving the entire body of the cow elk. *How does that fit in the picture of killing only what you need/use? *Not very well, but it fits in perfectly with the "nature is cruel and a heartless m-fer who could care less about an individual".

It is natural for predators to kill, it is not nature's way to only take what you need all the time. *Hunters in general, myself included, use what they kill, even if not all of it. *And hunters in general these days don't take excess in any case.
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Old 10-20-2008, 10:30 PM #31
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Default Re: What other hobby's do you do ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by LRMNmeyer
Which is why I like (mostly) catch and release fishing.
Fish (mostly) don't feel pain. *They generally lack the parts of the brain necessary to feel pain, so it really has no meaning to a fish.
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Default Re: What other hobby's do you do ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by pullbangdead
[quote author=LRMNmeyer link=1224429803/20#27 date=1224536069]
Which is why I like (mostly) catch and release fishing.
Fish (mostly) don't feel pain. *They generally lack the parts of the brain necessary to feel pain, so it really has no meaning to a fish.[/quote]

The research with tuna and sensitivity to temperature brings this statement in question.

Peace,
dave
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