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Old 06-07-2017, 03:17 PM #33
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Default Re: UK Election Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by trencheel303 View Post
Whether or not you're a U.K. citizen if you show intention to cause our country and it's people harm you don't belong here. And that includes the latest one who openly stated on his travels "I want to be a terrorist" when attempting to fly to Syria. The fact that he then manages to come back home and do what he did shows what is wrong with the system.
So again... what do you propose for these British citizens? Where are you going to put them? Just ship them off to another country, one that they don't belong in?


Quote:
Originally Posted by trencheel303 View Post
Yeah I know you all probably think I'm a horrible person etc etc whatever. Fact is I'm just saddened by and sick of the things that have gone on in the last 2 years. Paris, London, Ankara, Manchester, pulse nightclub - just the ones I can remember off top of my head. The elephant in the room here that no one wants to address is it always boils down to religious hate and extremism. Sorry but the leftie view of "lets all just have a hug and get on" isn't working, these people have a belief down to the very core that western values are to be eradicated at all costs and no death toll is high enough. Am I so wrong for wanting to adopt a more hard line view to have it stopped? I know government function creep is a problem but lines have to be drawn somewhere. I live 6 miles from Manchester.

I don't think you're horrible, but I'm amazed and worried at how many people I'm seeing that are so willing top support the removal of their human rights and freedoms because of a few terrorists.

Most left wing people (except the ones who are certifiably mental) know that "lets all hug and get along" won't work, we can see the issues. But we're not willing to sacrifice our own rights and freedoms to solve the issues. We'd rather find an alternate solution. Nothing wrong with wanting a more hardline approach and drawing a line, but that line gets drawn before our human rights and freedoms are removed.

How long before we start locking people up without trial just because of their beliefs? How long before we start locking people up without trial because of who they happen to know or are related to? How long before we start locking people up without trial because they disagree with the Government?

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."


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Old 06-07-2017, 04:47 PM #34
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Default Re: UK Election Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by diachi View Post
So again... what do you propose for these British citizens? Where are you going to put them? Just ship them off to another country, one that they don't belong in?
If they are British citizens (and not all are) and there is sufficient evidence that they wish harm on or plan to harm this country and/or its people then they should be trialled for their crimes as appropriate and remanded while this is in progress. The fact remains that at the moment you can wish ungodly amount of ills on this country, on our governments and even on our Royal Family and you can't be touched. Several of the recent ones have all been "on the list" and even under investigation - one of them was on a muslim documentary recently and didn't even hide his face while hanging up a jihad flag - but the laws in this country that are more than happy to harbour criminals says no action can be taken against them because they haven't committed actual acts of terror. Oh oh, too late, they have now!

If you don't have a British citizen or have a dual citizenship it should be renounced and you get hoofed off back to wherever you're a resident.

The fact that you can have police turn up at your door for posting on twitter that you don't like someone, and yet terrorists get away scot free with their plotting is a major fault that needs sorting. this isn't an issue of free speech at all, this is an issue of bowing to pressure from religious groups that cry "discrimination" every time attempts are made to bring them to justice.

If you have ill will towards this country and its people, screw you and your rights, and you have that in writing from me.




Quote:
I don't think you're horrible, but I'm amazed and worried at how many people I'm seeing that are so willing top support the removal of their human rights and freedoms because of a few terrorists.
Like I said above I'm not currently giving up any of my human rights. It helps that I'm not a terrorist.



Quote:
How long before we start locking people up without trial just because of their beliefs?
Well, it depends what those beliefs are. If they are that western values are to be destroyed and that it's OK to kill and maim innocent citizens, and that this thought is communicated to others then harbouring the thought alone is an act of terror and should be acted on as such. I don't care about free speech at this point if you are thinking like that and openly communicating that to your buddies then that signals intent to harm. Did you know that you can be found guilty and convicted of assault without ever touching someone? Assault ranges from causing actual physical harm all the way up to the threat of an intent to harm. Harbouring such thoughts in groups and showing willingness to carry them out is as much an act of terror as is strapping a bomb to your body and detonating it.

I can only assume that you do not believe this is a problem and that people resident in the UK should be allowed to openly discuss their hate for us, citing your previous comment:
Quote:
"Create a new law that makes whatever their doing a crime, even if it's just expressing radical ideas?"
To clarify, yes, I think "expressing radical ideas" where "radical ideas" are genuine threats to humankind in the country you are resident should be a crime.

I should imagine, then, given you bear this viewpoint that you're also OK with people "expressing radical ideas" on some of these other subjects, including but not limited to:-

Neo-Nazis on how they hate Jews and Zionism
Male Chauvenists on their views and beliefs of women in society
Homo***uality and views on same-*** marriage
Religious Zeal including scientology



Quote:
How long before we start locking people up without trial because of who they happen to know or are related to? How long before we start locking people up without trial because they disagree with the Government?
Three words: slippery slope theory.



Quote:
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Yes, I can do quotes too. I made this one all by myself: Those who harbour criminals and allow their mindsets to grow and be reborn should be given no quarter when they themselves are turned upon.
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Old 06-07-2017, 06:41 PM #35
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Default Re: UK Election Thread

The liberals want peaceful citizens to tolerant the intolerance of violent terrorist refugees, it's insanity, of course they attack our freedom of speech by calling us racist if we don't tolerate the beliefs of radical zealots brainwashed to carry out our destruction and accusing us of hate speech if we protest children being murdered by religious zealots who preach killing the infidel.

Thank God for President Donald Trump, hopefully the UK empower the Tories to clean up their mess.
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Old 06-08-2017, 10:33 PM #36
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Default Re: UK Election Thread

EXIT POLLS:

Con: 314
Lab: 266
SNP: 34
LDem: 14

Big if true.
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Old 06-08-2017, 10:44 PM #37
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Default Re: UK Election Thread

That's unfortunate. I guess it will depend on how many Cons are in Parliament. Hate to see May actually do what she's been saying.
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Old 06-08-2017, 10:47 PM #38
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Default Re: UK Election Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by paul1598419 View Post
That's unfortunate. I guess it will depend on how many Cons are in Parliament. Hate to see May actually do what she's been saying.

Keep in mind 314 isn't a majority, so if that's accurate they'll either need to form a coalition with ... DUP? Or try and run as a minority. If it's accurate May will most likely have to resign.

326 required for a majority.
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Old 06-09-2017, 01:03 AM #39
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Default Re: UK Election Thread

Remains to see what the final count tells, but if it is as reported that would be problematic for the uk and brexit indeed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trencheel303 View Post
Did you know that you can be found guilty and convicted of assault without ever touching someone? Assault ranges from causing actual physical harm all the way up to the threat of an intent to harm. Harbouring such thoughts in groups and showing willingness to carry them out is as much an act of terror as is strapping a bomb to your body and detonating it.
This is a matter of definition: If i come running at you, yelling i'm going to stab you, but do not actually do so, that'd technically be assault. If i give no warning but just smack you in the face that'd be battery. If i came running at you with a knive, yelling i'll stab you and actually do so that'd be battery too.

All of these things are actual actions though, at when it comes to only ideas it's quite different. If I merely state i would -like- to kill you that not illegal at all. If i state i -intent- to kill you it probably is, unless considered not to be sincere (someone yelling "i'll kill you for that" at one of their buddies that just pulled a prank or something).

This is problematic when it comes to extremist ideas really.

Someone saying "i want all non-muslims to be murdered" is currently not doing against the law as they do not say they intend to kill them personally. But even "i want to kill all non-muslims" would not be, since it expresses merely a desire, not an concrete plan of actions. The point where it goes illegal is stating "i will kill a non-muslim", which would be an intention commit manslaughter or murder depending on if the target is a specific person.

Legally very difficult, but important, as we don't want though-police either. I imagine a fair number of americans would not mind Trump having a fatal mishap, though few to none of them are prepared to shoot him personally.
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Old 06-09-2017, 02:26 AM #40
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Default Re: UK Election Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by diachi View Post
Keep in mind 314 isn't a majority, so if that's accurate they'll either need to form a coalition with ... DUP? Or try and run as a minority. If it's accurate May will most likely have to resign.

326 required for a majority.
Didn't know that. I haven't actually spent enough time learning that system as well as I should. Well, that's good news. Too many idiots trying to curtail our long history of human rights because of a few terrorist attacks by sidestepping either the constitution or laws because they feel they have a mandate. Nothing could be further from the truth.
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Old 06-09-2017, 07:50 AM #41
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Default Re: UK Election Thread

I'll leave this here:

"Critical questions - such as why the security service MI5 maintained terrorist "assets" in Manchester and why the government did not warn the public of the threat in their midst - remain unanswered, deflected by the promise of an internal "review".

The alleged suicide bomber, Salman Abedi, was part of an extremist group, the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group, that thrived in Manchester and was cultivated and used by MI5 for more than 20 years."

Full article here:
TERROR IN BRITAIN: WHAT DID THE PRIME MINISTER KNOW?
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Old 06-09-2017, 09:53 AM #42
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Default Re: UK Election Thread

Well, bad day for the UK regardless of who gets in.
I've had terror arrests made in my local area to do with all of this. London and Manchester related. Someone was also found preparing another by what I have heard.
Not a good time ATM.
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Old 06-09-2017, 11:21 AM #43
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Default Re: UK Election Thread

Whatever happens labour taking the helm looks an impossibility. The cons aren't going to work with them and since they still have the most seats it's them who decide who they go into coalition with. At the moment it looks like the DUP. So that's a godsend at least, because excluding left and right for a minute, Jeremy Corbyn' crackpot policy of wanting to adopt a 1970s socialist approach would be disastrous. No country ever prospered under socialism but we've become too close for my liking. It's not even as if Tory monetary policy is a shining example of how to make bank either; but it's better than it was in the thatcher era when they privatised the lot and sold it off. As usual a case of voting for the lesser evil.
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Old 06-09-2017, 03:53 PM #44
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Default Re: UK Election Thread

Soooo ... Tory minority government with confidence and supply from the DUP? This election has been and continues to be a wild ride.
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Old 06-09-2017, 03:56 PM #45
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Default Re: UK Election Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by CurtisOliver View Post
Well, bad day for the UK regardless of who gets in.
I've had terror arrests made in my local area to do with all of this. London and Manchester related. Someone was also found preparing another by what I have heard.
Not a good time ATM.

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Old 06-09-2017, 04:00 PM #46
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Default Re: UK Election Thread

lol, Thanks 3D.
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Old 06-09-2017, 04:04 PM #47
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Default Re: UK Election Thread

DWG = Dont' Worry Guy
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Old 06-09-2017, 05:09 PM #48
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Default Re: UK Election Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by diachi View Post
Soooo ... Tory minority government with confidence and supply from the DUP? This election has been and continues to be a wild ride.

I agree. Just finished an article last night about May's backfiring call for an election now. Looks like she not only didn't get any more seats but lost quite a few to Labour. Some are saying her time as Cons leader is short. If not Labour, who will Conservatives work with to make a majority government?
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