Welcome to Laser Pointer Forums! If you are looking for a laser you may want to check out the database of laser pointer companies. The link will open in a new window for your convenience.

 Laser Pointer Forums - Discuss Laser Pointers Taboo woo woo science? Laser Pointer Company Database     Laser Top Sites List     Lasers by Type     Green Lasers

10-11-2014, 10:11 AM #1
 Class 3B Laser Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Near Mosul, Iraq Posts: 4,252 Rep Power: 2090
Class 3B Laser

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Near Mosul, Iraq
Posts: 4,252
Rep Power: 2090
Taboo woo woo science?

Watch this, if you can:

I'm not posting this thread to spam you, some members realllly need to take a look at their own taboos. I will respond to comments unless clearly non-sense.

__________________

http://www.lexellaser.com/techinfo_wavelengths.htm

Laser Safety:
http://www.laserpointersafety.com/index.html

Angular Size Calculator; use with diode angle of radiation specification to calculate the needed lens diameter for a given FL:
http://www.1728.org/angsize.htm

Divergence to spot size calculator: http://tinyurl.com/spotsize - 1 mRad is about .057 degrees which from the earth would expand to be ~10% the diameters of the moon or sun at their distances.

Divergence Calculator: http://www.pseudonomen.com/lasers/ca...alculator.html - Measure your lasers beamwidth at 1 foot & then at a further distance to calculate the divergence.

Online calculator to determine spot intensity at different mRad's & powers @ distances: http://tinyurl.com/divergence-calculator

Laser Power Density Calculator: http://www.ophiropt.com/laser-measur...ity-calculator

How to build a laser beam expander to reduce divergence: http://tinyurl.com/BeamExpander

RHD's Relative Perceived Brightness Calculator. Compare brightness @nm: http://lsrtools.1apps.com/relativebrightness

YAG Power Calculator, i.e. convert ns @ mJ to peak power in watts http://tinyurl.com/YAG-Pulse

The forum costs more to run than donations received, if you wish to help click this link: http://laserpointerforums.com/donations.htm

_______

10-11-2014, 01:55 PM #2
 Class 4 Laser Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: 20 Minutes from NYC. Posts: 15,787 Rep Power: 1573
InfinitusEquitas
Class 4 Laser

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: 20 Minutes from NYC.
Posts: 15,787
Rep Power: 1573
Re: Taboo woo woo science?

Question/Suggestion - Why not have all of these in one thread?

Personally I don't care about these threads, but I don't like seeing your rep go down like a train wreck.

10-11-2014, 04:14 PM #3
 Class 3R Laser Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,859 Rep Power: 136
Lotus_Darkrose
Class 3R Laser

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,859
Rep Power: 136
Re: Taboo woo woo science?

__________________
<+vk2fro> mines to operate off two SLA batteries
<+GBD> SLAs? whimp
<+GBD> get a 240V variac and some multiplier :P
<+GBD> then you can have some *real* fun
<+vk2fro> on camping trips where do you expect me to plug that in? a gum tree?

10-11-2014, 10:08 PM #4
 Class 3B Laser Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 4,465 Rep Power: 827
Trevor
Class 3B Laser

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 4,465
Rep Power: 827
Re: Taboo woo woo science?

Why does woo-woo science exist? Because it does not follow with scientific consensus.

Why does scientific consensus exist? Because evidence overwhelmingly points in one direction.

When someone comes forward with some kind of crackpot theory, they will often present it alongside cherry-picked evidence in support of their theory and prance around like they've revolutionized their field. Science doesn't work like that.

If you want to prove the expanding Earth hypothesis (for example), you have to develop a repeatable methodology to take observations and have those observations counter accepted scientific consensus. Once it's shown that the theory of continental drift is shown to be unable to explain your observations, then you can go about the modification of the accepted theory or the introduction of a new one.

Most rejections from peer-reviewed journals are due to flawed methodology or overly grand conclusions from data that do not meaningfully suggest it.

The peer review process ensures that new theories are a result of good science. Bad methodology is rejected. Unwarranted conclusions are rejected.

That said, over time good methodology that results in observations that go against scientific consensus will result in a change of scientific consensus. But it necessarily must go slowly, and necessarily must be repeated by many scientists before being accepted.

Scientists who try to say "oh, the continental drift is wrong because of this one thing one place, therefore the expanding Earth hypothesis must be correct" are laughed out of the journals for bad methodology and faulty conclusions. Then those so-called scientists turn to YouTube paint themselves as persecuted geniuses and inspire the imaginations the people to whom crackpot theories appeal.

TL;DR: The peer-review process isn't closed-minded, it's just that some scientists are so open-minded their brains fell out...

Trevor
__________________
There's a fundamental truth to our nature. Man must explore.

Code:
```23:10 <ARG>    nothing has blown up yet :)
23:10 <Trevor> that is a distressingly low standard for success```

Last edited by Trevor; 10-11-2014 at 10:37 PM.

10-11-2014, 10:19 PM #5
 Class 3B Laser Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Near Mosul, Iraq Posts: 4,252 Rep Power: 2090
Class 3B Laser

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Near Mosul, Iraq
Posts: 4,252
Rep Power: 2090
Re: Taboo woo woo science?

Great observations, glad to entertain. Seriously though, did anyone watch the whole video and take anything valuable away from it? I've never known of a single case where any ones brain fell out from having an open mind.
__________________

http://www.lexellaser.com/techinfo_wavelengths.htm

Laser Safety:
http://www.laserpointersafety.com/index.html

Angular Size Calculator; use with diode angle of radiation specification to calculate the needed lens diameter for a given FL:
http://www.1728.org/angsize.htm

Divergence to spot size calculator: http://tinyurl.com/spotsize - 1 mRad is about .057 degrees which from the earth would expand to be ~10% the diameters of the moon or sun at their distances.

Divergence Calculator: http://www.pseudonomen.com/lasers/ca...alculator.html - Measure your lasers beamwidth at 1 foot & then at a further distance to calculate the divergence.

Online calculator to determine spot intensity at different mRad's & powers @ distances: http://tinyurl.com/divergence-calculator

Laser Power Density Calculator: http://www.ophiropt.com/laser-measur...ity-calculator

How to build a laser beam expander to reduce divergence: http://tinyurl.com/BeamExpander

RHD's Relative Perceived Brightness Calculator. Compare brightness @nm: http://lsrtools.1apps.com/relativebrightness

YAG Power Calculator, i.e. convert ns @ mJ to peak power in watts http://tinyurl.com/YAG-Pulse

The forum costs more to run than donations received, if you wish to help click this link: http://laserpointerforums.com/donations.htm

_______

10-11-2014, 10:35 PM #6
 Class 3B Laser Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 4,465 Rep Power: 827
Trevor
Class 3B Laser

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 4,465
Rep Power: 827
Re: Taboo woo woo science?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Laser Project Great observations, glad to entertain. Seriously though, did anyone watch the whole video and take anything valuable away from it? I've never known of a single case where any ones brain fell out from having an open mind.
I would count being easily sucked into theories of crackpot scientists due to lack of critical analysis of their observations, methodology, and conclusions as being so open-minded that one's brain fell out.

I watched about half the video before posting. The speaker cites examples of scientific progress that were once considered taboo in an effort to point out how the scientific method hampers progress. It seems like he wants to level criticism at the scientific community for not immediately accepting those ideas that we now view as correct. However, he never makes reference to competing ideas that were ultimately rejected that would more than likely sound as ridiculous as cryptozoology. Once again, selective use of evidence in order to make a point with the audience. Sound familiar?

It's also worth noting that the speaker is Dean Radin, a parapsychologist. As in someone who studies That is worth noting because he himself probably resents the scientific method for not accepting his ideas. Let's check Wikipedia!

From Wikipedia:

Quote:
 Radin's ideas and work have been criticized by scientists and philosophers skeptical of paranormal claims. In addition, the review of Radin's first book, The Conscious Universe, that appeared in Nature charged that Radin ignored the known hoaxes in the field, made statistical errors and ignored plausible non-paranormal explanations for parapsychological data.
Quote:
 Chris French criticized Radin for his selective historical overview of parapsychology and ignoring evidence of fraud. French recounts that the medium Florence Cook was caught in acts of trickery and two of the Fox sisters confessed to fraud, but that Radin did not mention this fact. Radin has claimed the results from psi research are as consistent by the same standards as any other scientific discipline but Ray Hyman has written many parapsychologists disagree with that opinion and openly admit the evidence for psi is "inconsistent, irreproducible, and fails to meet acceptable scientific standards". Radin's paranormal claims have been roundly rejected by those in the skeptical and mainstream scientific communities, some of whom have suggested that he has embraced pseudoscience and that he misunderstands the nature of science. The physicist Robert L. Park has written "No proof of psychic phenomena is ever found. In spite of all the tests devised by parapsychologists like Jahn and Radin, and huge amounts of data collected over a period of many years, the results are no more convincing today than when they began their experiments." Steven Novella wrote that Radin's alleged positive results from parapsychological experiments have not been replicated by the scientific community.
Sounds like Dr. Radin is not happy that his "taboo" ideas were not accepted without question.

Trevor
__________________
There's a fundamental truth to our nature. Man must explore.

Code:
```23:10 <ARG>    nothing has blown up yet :)
23:10 <Trevor> that is a distressingly low standard for success```

Last edited by Trevor; 10-11-2014 at 10:37 PM.

10-12-2014, 12:03 AM #7
 Class 3B Laser Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Near Mosul, Iraq Posts: 4,252 Rep Power: 2090
Class 3B Laser

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Near Mosul, Iraq
Posts: 4,252
Rep Power: 2090
Re: Taboo woo woo science?

Yet, his research findings and methods are solid. Says something doesn't it?
__________________

http://www.lexellaser.com/techinfo_wavelengths.htm

Laser Safety:
http://www.laserpointersafety.com/index.html

Angular Size Calculator; use with diode angle of radiation specification to calculate the needed lens diameter for a given FL:
http://www.1728.org/angsize.htm

Divergence to spot size calculator: http://tinyurl.com/spotsize - 1 mRad is about .057 degrees which from the earth would expand to be ~10% the diameters of the moon or sun at their distances.

Divergence Calculator: http://www.pseudonomen.com/lasers/ca...alculator.html - Measure your lasers beamwidth at 1 foot & then at a further distance to calculate the divergence.

Online calculator to determine spot intensity at different mRad's & powers @ distances: http://tinyurl.com/divergence-calculator

Laser Power Density Calculator: http://www.ophiropt.com/laser-measur...ity-calculator

How to build a laser beam expander to reduce divergence: http://tinyurl.com/BeamExpander

RHD's Relative Perceived Brightness Calculator. Compare brightness @nm: http://lsrtools.1apps.com/relativebrightness

YAG Power Calculator, i.e. convert ns @ mJ to peak power in watts http://tinyurl.com/YAG-Pulse

The forum costs more to run than donations received, if you wish to help click this link: http://laserpointerforums.com/donations.htm

_______

10-12-2014, 12:08 AM #8
 Class 3B Laser Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 4,465 Rep Power: 827
Trevor
Class 3B Laser

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 4,465
Rep Power: 827
Re: Taboo woo woo science?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Laser Project Yet, his research findings and methods are solid. Says something doesn't it?
Please provide evidence of his findings being "solid."

Please, do yourself a favor and read why he is criticized. Look at the cited works in the paragraphs critical of him: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dean_Radin#Parapsychology

Trevor
__________________
There's a fundamental truth to our nature. Man must explore.

Code:
```23:10 <ARG>    nothing has blown up yet :)
23:10 <Trevor> that is a distressingly low standard for success```

Last edited by Trevor; 10-12-2014 at 12:15 AM.

10-12-2014, 12:24 AM #9
 Class 3B Laser Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Near Mosul, Iraq Posts: 4,252 Rep Power: 2090
Class 3B Laser

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Near Mosul, Iraq
Posts: 4,252
Rep Power: 2090
Re: Taboo woo woo science?

Ok give me awhile. I'm out most of the weekend away from home, using my phone now. I can go directly to him, have had a few email exchanges with him over the years.
__________________

http://www.lexellaser.com/techinfo_wavelengths.htm

Laser Safety:
http://www.laserpointersafety.com/index.html

Angular Size Calculator; use with diode angle of radiation specification to calculate the needed lens diameter for a given FL:
http://www.1728.org/angsize.htm

Divergence to spot size calculator: http://tinyurl.com/spotsize - 1 mRad is about .057 degrees which from the earth would expand to be ~10% the diameters of the moon or sun at their distances.

Divergence Calculator: http://www.pseudonomen.com/lasers/ca...alculator.html - Measure your lasers beamwidth at 1 foot & then at a further distance to calculate the divergence.

Online calculator to determine spot intensity at different mRad's & powers @ distances: http://tinyurl.com/divergence-calculator

Laser Power Density Calculator: http://www.ophiropt.com/laser-measur...ity-calculator

How to build a laser beam expander to reduce divergence: http://tinyurl.com/BeamExpander

RHD's Relative Perceived Brightness Calculator. Compare brightness @nm: http://lsrtools.1apps.com/relativebrightness

YAG Power Calculator, i.e. convert ns @ mJ to peak power in watts http://tinyurl.com/YAG-Pulse

The forum costs more to run than donations received, if you wish to help click this link: http://laserpointerforums.com/donations.htm

_______

Last edited by Alaskan; 10-12-2014 at 12:27 AM.

10-12-2014, 12:27 AM #10
 Class 3B Laser Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 4,465 Rep Power: 827
Trevor
Class 3B Laser

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 4,465
Rep Power: 827
Re: Taboo woo woo science?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Laser Project Ok give me awhile. I'm out most of the weekend away from home, using my phone now.
Make sure you evaluate the claims of his critic, paying special attention to the way that Radin ignores proper statistical practice to prove his points...

I'm excited to read your well-written, critical evaluation of all available evidence.

Trevor
__________________
There's a fundamental truth to our nature. Man must explore.

Code:
```23:10 <ARG>    nothing has blown up yet :)
23:10 <Trevor> that is a distressingly low standard for success```

10-12-2014, 01:35 AM #11
 Class 4 Laser Join Date: May 2007 Location: Queensland, AU Posts: 7,549 Rep Power: 689
Things
Class 4 Laser

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Queensland, AU
Posts: 7,549
Rep Power: 689
Re: Taboo woo woo science?

10-12-2014, 03:04 AM #12
 Banned Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 1,065 Rep Power: 0
VisibleGreen
Banned

Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,065
Rep Power: 0
Re: Taboo woo woo science?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Things

10-14-2014, 03:55 AM #13
 Class 4 Laser Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 8,852 Rep Power: 1363
Cyparagon
Class 4 Laser

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 8,852
Rep Power: 1363
Re: Taboo woo woo science?

This has been posted before, but it's relevant again. Please watch it, laser projects. It will explain the backlash you've been experiencing.

__________________
A problem well stated is a problem half solved.

10-14-2014, 04:20 AM #14
 Super Moderator Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Canada Posts: 6,987 Rep Power: 1012
ARG
Super Moderator

Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,987
Rep Power: 1012
Re: Taboo woo woo science?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Cyparagon This has been posted before, but it's relevant again. Please watch it, laser projects. It will explain the backlash you've been experiencing.
I've never seen that before. Applies perfectly to this situation.

Last edited by ARG; 10-14-2014 at 04:20 AM.

10-15-2014, 06:25 AM #15
 Class 4 Laser Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Oregon, USA Posts: 5,468 Rep Power: 887
Class 4 Laser

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Oregon, USA
Posts: 5,468
Rep Power: 887
Re: Taboo woo woo science?

Time to neg-rep you LP. Up to this point I've politely ignored your posts, regardless of the topics, but again you're just spamming the forum with links to other sites without providing any meaningful content yourself.
__________________
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to <person> again.

10-15-2014, 02:21 PM #16
 Class 4 Laser Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 8,488 Rep Power: 687
rhd
Class 4 Laser

Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 8,488
Rep Power: 687
Re: Taboo woo woo science?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Bionic-Badger Time to neg-rep you LP. Up to this point I've politely ignored your posts, regardless of the topics, but again you're just spamming the forum with links to other sites without providing any meaningful content yourself.
Ditto. I thought you were on a better streak, but it turns out you're still making new threads about nonsense that you don't even take the time to critically evaluate yourself. Neg from me.
__________________
CURRENT WAVELENGTHS:
405|441|450|467|473|495|505|520|532|556|PGLRG|589|594|632|638|660

SAFETY & IMPORTANT READING (threads authored and contributed to by various members of LPF):
- Info release from Laserglow - Default Canadian restrictions on portable lasers (link)
- The Necessity of Safety Goggles (link)

 Thread Tools Display Modes Linear Mode

 Posting Rules You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts BB code is On Smilies are On [IMG] code is On HTML code is OffTrackbacks are On Pingbacks are On Refbacks are On Forum Rules

All times are GMT. The time now is 01:23 AM.

 -- DarkShadows V5 -- Responsive LPF -2562016 -- Default Style Contact Us - Laser Pointer Forums - Archive - Top