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Old 10-01-2016, 05:26 PM #433
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Default Re: Space Discussion Thread

Chemical rockets won't even get us to Mars effectively. Until we develop an actual effective propulsion method we should probably just focus on issues here on Earth.

I don't know if we'll ever explore other star systems, but it would be nice to at least be able to explore our own with manned missions. Current rocket tech just cannot get it done though. Until something better is developed we should just stick to the robotic probes and rovers.


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Old 10-01-2016, 05:49 PM #434
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Default Re: Space Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by Razako View Post
Chemical rockets won't even get us to Mars effectively. Until we develop an actual effective propulsion method we should probably just focus on issues here on Earth.

I don't know if we'll ever explore other star systems, but it would be nice to at least be able to explore our own with manned missions. Current rocket tech just cannot get it done though. Until something better is developed we should just stick to the robotic probes and rovers.
Some stuff from NASA JPL Eagleworks









http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/ca...0140000851.pdf



There is also 1950s tech that would have done the same thing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projec...ar_propulsion)

In fact a NASA team keeps the Orion tech alive because if we ever really needed to divert a NEA then something like Orion is our only real option.

The only major flaw in Orion was the near Earth detonation of the nuclear fuel.

It was proposed that Saturn Vs be used to lob the craft into LEO assemble it.

In the 60s the feasibility study was completed by the DOE and the project was handed to the airforce, who proposed to JFK that we arm it with nuclear weapons and park it over the USSR, JFK was horrified and canceled the development program.



So in short, we have at least the ability to explore our entire heliosphere, with manned spacecraft, in missions that last months not years.

We could make it to a few of the nearest stars and back withing a human lifetime.

It really comes down to the off the shelf option being too dirty, and the "High Tech" option still being mostly just theory.

But, "If we wanted to" we could have a "Nearest Star" craft built and launched within 10 years. We would just have to live with irradiating a relatively small preferably uninhabited bit of the planet to do it.
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Old 10-02-2016, 01:43 AM #435
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Default Re: Space Discussion Thread

Chemical rockets can clearly deliver stuff to mars, after all that's how those rovers got there. As pointed out before chemical rockets scale pretty well, so we could deliver larger payloads as long as someone is paying to do it.

The latter part could be a big part of the issue. Leading up to the first moon landing the US spent a whopping 3 to 5% of its annual budget on space exploration, in the last decades this has dropped to 0.5% or so.

Right now it seems more feasible that the first man on mars will be there funded by private enterprise. This is not a bad thing, but quite a bit more difficult when you have to stick to budgets set by investors.

If these 'relativistic' drives can be built that could be a game changer, but it all seems very dubious at the moment, mostly because there is no understanding of how they work even if experiments hint they might on a very small scale.
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Old 10-06-2016, 07:01 AM #436
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Default Re: Space Discussion Thread

Privately-developed rocket aces abort test ? Spaceflight Now

Blue Origin, the space company founded by Amazon.com’s Jeff Bezos, launched a dramatic flight test over West Texas on Wednesday to verify the performance of an escape system on its reusable suborbital launcher designed to loft space tourists, researchers and commercial astronauts on short rides to the edge of space.

The launcher Blue Origin flew Wednesday has now flown five times, dating back to its maiden launch on Nov. 23, 2015, but this mission was its last.

“What an extraordinary test and a tremendous final flight for both craft,” said Ariane Cornell, a manager on Blue Origin’s strategy and business development team, who provided commentary during the company’s webcast of Wednesday’s flight. “As we very optimistically aimed for, both our crew capsule successfully executed its in-flight escape test, and the booster brilliantly continued to space and came home for a fifth landing on our landing pad just two miles north of where it took off from.”
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Old 10-06-2016, 03:22 PM #437
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Default Re: Space Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by AaronT View Post
Privately-developed rocket aces abort test ? Spaceflight Now

Blue Origin, the space company founded by Amazon.com’s Jeff Bezos, launched a dramatic flight test over West Texas on Wednesday to verify the performance of an escape system on its reusable suborbital launcher designed to loft space tourists, researchers and commercial astronauts on short rides to the edge of space.

The launcher Blue Origin flew Wednesday has now flown five times, dating back to its maiden launch on Nov. 23, 2015, but this mission was its last.

“What an extraordinary test and a tremendous final flight for both craft,” said Ariane Cornell, a manager on Blue Origin’s strategy and business development team, who provided commentary during the company’s webcast of Wednesday’s flight. “As we very optimistically aimed for, both our crew capsule successfully executed its in-flight escape test, and the booster brilliantly continued to space and came home for a fifth landing on our landing pad just two miles north of where it took off from.”

Saw that yesterday and meant to post it, cool! More progress.

Seems the commercial space companies are stirring up some competition too, which is great!
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Old 10-07-2016, 01:40 AM #438
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Default Re: Space Discussion Thread

It's a pretty neat demonstration of how you could escape from a launch. This technology might have saved the Challenger space shuttle crew if it were available back then.

If it will actually be required remains to be seen though. Launch vehicles will become more and more reliable, possibly to a point where you don't need an option to bail out anymore.

After all, passenger aircraft aren't usually equipped with parachutes either, though they could be quite useful in some failure modes. Oddly they all carry life vests to survive in water, despite the chance of landing on the open ocean without deadly impact force are slim to none - water is VERY hard when you hit it at 200 mph.
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Old 10-07-2016, 03:28 AM #439
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Default Re: Space Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by Benm View Post
It's a pretty neat demonstration of how you could escape from a launch. This technology might have saved the Challenger space shuttle crew if it were available back then.

If it will actually be required remains to be seen though. Launch vehicles will become more and more reliable, possibly to a point where you don't need an option to bail out anymore.

After all, passenger aircraft aren't usually equipped with parachutes either, though they could be quite useful in some failure modes. Oddly they all carry life vests to survive in water, despite the chance of landing on the open ocean without deadly impact force are slim to none - water is VERY hard when you hit it at 200 mph.
I think the idea is to give "Space Tourists" the warm and fuzzies about going into space.

For serious work (cargo/people not just visiting) it is worth it to shed the weight of the extra safety systems.
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Old 10-08-2016, 01:52 AM #440
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Default Re: Space Discussion Thread

Possibly, though space is a very hostile environment, a little leak up there will kill you whereas an airplane can do an emergency descent to get some breathable air back in (those oxygen masks only work for 10 minutes or so).

I always find it amusing that they do the life vest safety demonstrations or airplanes, even if the flight is entirely over land and there is zero chance of landing/chrashing on water when you could use one if you magically survived.

One thing i wonder about with this rocket escape system: is it fast enough? It would be fine if your booster somehow failed to provide thrust, but what if it actually explodes suddenly like in challenger?

In the challenger the pod carrying the crew was blown of 'naturally' though the g force from the explosion and low air pressure would probably have knocked them out, otherwise they died when it the ocean.

Oddly they considered fitting the thing with ejection seats of sorts, but the idea was discared because the system was 'safe enough'.
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Old 10-09-2016, 07:45 PM #441
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Default Re: Space Discussion Thread

The Blue Origin test was quite impressive. While launch abort systems aren't all that new, doing a launch abort at such a speed is.

Blue Origin's pretty funny though. Jeff Bezos seems to mirror a lot of the stuff Elon's said in the past and tends to make claims ignoring the existence of SpaceX. Their rocket tech is still pretty far behind, but this redeems them a bit.

I just wish we would have a bit more collaboration among the civilian rocketry companies though. Seems like we've got a lot of companies working on stuff in parallel. I think it'd be cool if they came together and invented some standards so that they could at least make somewhat cross-compatible components. It might turn out very valuable for future operators that purchase their equipment.
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Old 10-10-2016, 01:31 AM #442
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Default Re: Space Discussion Thread

That depends, using a different approach in each company might be helpful in finding the best one overall, possibly better than 'planned' developments like NASA does.

One interesting thing about the commercial companies is their choice of fuel. While NASA mostly flew with cryogenic hydrogen, space x is using RP-1 (basically jetfuel) and blue origin is considering cryogenic methane.

Using cryogenic fuel has pro's and cons. One interesting pro is that you can use the expansion to drive the turbine that drives the fuel and oxidizer pumps, something not uncommon with hydrogen fuelled rockets. I'm not sure if blue origin will do this with methane, but i think it's feasible.
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Old 10-22-2016, 11:10 PM #443
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Default Re: Space Discussion Thread

Pretty cool IMO. Death of everything by vacuum decay...
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Old 10-23-2016, 12:42 AM #444
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Default Re: Space Discussion Thread

^I just saw that video yesterday! Love that YouTube channel

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Old 10-25-2016, 09:18 PM #445
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Default Re: Space Discussion Thread

That's a good representation of a concept close to the relative edge of modern physics. I think "might be wrong" is a bit of an understatement though. Definitely not something worth worrying about since the Higgs Field was really only recently verified by CERN's research into the Higgs Boson. Naturally, its properties are still very much up in the air.
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Old 10-30-2016, 06:32 AM #446
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Default Re: Space Discussion Thread

Accelerating Universe: Not As Fast?
A UA-led team of astronomers found that the type of supernovae commonly used to measure distances in the universe fall into distinct populations not recognized before. The findings have implications for our understanding of how fast the universe has been expanding since the Big Bang.




A lot of news orgs ran with this one claiming that the universe is not expanding. Actually the conclusion is it simply might not be expanding and accelerating as fast.



There is also Gavin Wince who has the attention and been mentioned by Leonard Susskind and Steven Hawking.

Gavin Wince Youtube vids



He has an interesting take on the "Three Dimensions of Time" and he successfully predicted aspects of the Higgs before CERN had results. Not only that but he predicted the confusion they would have over detecting multiple "signals" and plotted where these signals would land in relation to each other due to multidimensional time.



His work has inspired me to copy NASA and develop my own "Warp Field/Laser Interferometer" and build and develop a Q-Thruster/Em-Drive based particularly on the theory it does/can warp gravity/space time.
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Old 10-31-2016, 02:40 AM #447
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Default Re: Space Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by AaronT View Post
[URL="https://uanews.arizona.edu/story/accelerating-universe-not-as-fast"]
His work has inspired me to copy NASA and develop my own "Warp Field/Laser Interferometer" and build and develop a Q-Thruster/Em-Drive based particularly on the theory it does/can warp gravity/space time.
Did you get it to move yet?

The effects of these things are tiny at best, but could still be interesting if they actually exist at some point in time.

They are -really- tiny though, something like emitting light has a resulting force far greater that can be put to actual use right now. If you launched a car into space you could make it go forward by stepping on the brakes - at least as long as the battery and brake lights last
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Old 10-31-2016, 02:46 AM #448
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Default Re: Space Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by Benm View Post
Did you get it to move yet?

The effects of these things are tiny at best, but could still be interesting if they actually exist at some point in time.

They are -really- tiny though, something like emitting light has a resulting force far greater that can be put to actual use right now. If you launched a car into space you could make it go forward by stepping on the brakes - at least as long as the battery and brake lights last
My goal isn't to even get thrust. (What everyone else seems to be gunning for)

NASA did one test and showed a distortion of the laser of 40x what ambient air (or heat from the test article) could account for.

My goal is to develop a version specifically to warp spacetime as much as possible or otherwise duplicate, enhance and further understand the process by which the device distorts/distorted the laser.



I just found a gem over at the NASA Space Flight Center forum.

The following PDFs have been reviewed and picked over for several years over there and most consider it credible, it has yet to be repeated though attempts have been made to replicate it with lower but measurable thrust.

This guy claims to have gotten a little over 8 grams of thrust with his device.

FYI Ion thrust is about 10 grams + or - and still require propellant.

http://www.emdrive.com/ReviewofDMtechreport.pdf
http://www.emdrive.com/DemonstratorT...portIssue2.pdf
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Last edited by AaronT; 10-31-2016 at 04:41 AM.
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