Old 07-26-2016, 06:24 PM #337
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Default Re: Space Discussion Thread

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Yeah.

We still have about 500million-1billion years left here before we gotta move out! I had this idea in my mind. Imagine if we develop enough technology to transport Earth to another star? How cool would that be? Like pyshically move it to another system habitable to life? Technology progresses very quickly and within 500million years it may be possible!

-Alex
That would be spectacular. This is something I've thought about a bit. At first glance, it seems pretty impossible without some way to seriously manipulate gravity, but it might actually be doable with a huge enclosure and highly deleloped fusion technology.

We'd definitely need to be able to move to other solar systems and have planetary destruction abilities to gather materials since the planets of our own system probably don't have nearly enough of the right materials for a spacecraft of that size.

We'd definitely need massive robotic workforces to build such a craft as well. It'd likely be much more than the mass of the Earth.

I think the major technological issue aside from interstellar travel and the sheer scale would be the power. The craft would have to be able to replace the Sun for the duration of the journey and also produce a lot of thrust for acceleration and deceleration. Presumably, this would have to be done by a fusion reactor of a massive scale. Considering how hard they are to start, such a reactor might have somehow to siphon plasma from a star.

Most of it is definitely in the realm of physical and technological possibility, but we're still a long way off from being able to pull something like it together. Of course, manipulating gravity would make things a whole lot easier.

Edit: Then again, why move the Earth to another solar system when it's perfectly supported in a giant space ark? We could just keep exploring the universe, colonizing, and siphoning fuel from stars as we pass through.


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Old 07-26-2016, 06:58 PM #338
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Default Re: Space Discussion Thread

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Edit: Then again, why move the Earth to another solar ssystem when it's perfectly supported in a giant space ark? We could just keep exploring the universe, colonizing, and siphoning fuel from stars as we pass through.

Good point! That would be spectacular indeed and amazing! Well, we have 1 billion years to figure out how to do it. That should be plenty of time

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Old 07-26-2016, 09:06 PM #339
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Default Re: Space Discussion Thread

If we have the technology to move the earth with all of its plants and animals intact to a star comparable to our sun, we would surely have the technology to rejuvenate our own Sun and keep it going for another million years. It might be as simple as feeding it Jupiter and Saturn!
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Old 07-27-2016, 01:02 AM #340
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Default Re: Space Discussion Thread

Not really, those planets are only a fraction of the mass of the sun. Even if it could be done somehow that'd only extend the inevitable by a relatively short amount of time.

Then again this could become a problem in a billion years ago. It was about a billion years ago when multicellular organisms developed on earth. Mammals were hardly around until 200 million years ago. We basically have 5 times the time it took to grow from a primordial mouse to a current human to get out of there.

In contrast taking flight in the atmosphere was achieved only a bit over 100 years ago, and we set foot on the moon 50-ish years ago. If you slap on 4 orders of magnitude onto that timeline we might just be okay
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Old 07-27-2016, 03:55 PM #341
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Default Re: Space Discussion Thread

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Not really, those planets are only a fraction of the mass of the sun. Even if it could be done somehow that'd only extend the inevitable by a relatively short amount of time.
Who knows, perhaps only a fraction of the mass of the sun is all that is necessary to extend the sun's life by 1 Million years. A million years is a long time for the human race. Besides, no matter what our future generations attempt to do to save themselves from the galactic forces that could destroy Earth in a blink, nothing lasts forever. Eventually, our Universe will go cold and all living things will die.
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Old 07-27-2016, 04:32 PM #342
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Default Re: Space Discussion Thread

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Who knows, perhaps only a fraction of the mass of the sun is all that is necessary to extend the sun's life by 1 Million years. A million years is a long time for the human race. Besides, no matter what our future generations attempt to do to save themselves from the galactic forces that could destroy Earth in a blink, nothing lasts forever. Eventually, our Universe will go cold and all living things will die.
That's not exactly how stars work though. The issues that will cause the Sun to cosume the Earth have more to do with the buildup of spent fuel in the core of the Sun.

"Refueling" the Sun would involve extracting a lot of the heavier elements in the Sun and dramatically reducing the amount of helium before adding more hydrogen. You'd essentially need a solar "pool filter" to get rid of the heavy stuff and top off the hydrogen which would need some ridiculous tech.

Really though, moving the Earth to different stable orbits within the solar system over time could buy billions of years. Assuming we cold do that, Venus could be moved as well to form a second habitable planet. Smaller planets, moons, and asteroids could be combined into a new planet early on so that it could cool down and become another Earthlike planet for the distant future.
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Old 07-27-2016, 04:41 PM #343
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Default Re: Space Discussion Thread

If we ever achieve the capability to move planetary orbits, then damn near anything is possible. Moving Earth's orbit out further would allow us to get another 5+ billion years from the sun. We could also move worlds like mars and venus to habitable areas.(Venus would also need a bunch of the atmosphere removed, but if we're able to move planets that should be easy stuff).

IDK if it will EVER be feasible to move planets (we would probably need to be as advanced as the empire in star wars to do such a thing), but there are also less high-tech solutions to keeping the Earth habitable. The problem is the increasing luminosity of the sun, and there are some surprisingly 'low-tech' solutions which don't require us to move planets. I could see a future civilization simply putting a reflective 'mesh' into space between us and the sun. This mesh could be used to attenuate the amount of sunlight hitting the Earth as needed.
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Old 07-27-2016, 05:04 PM #344
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Default Re: Space Discussion Thread

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If we ever achieve the capability to move planetary orbits, then damn near anything is possible. Moving Earth's orbit out further would allow us to get another 5+ billion years from the sun. We could also move worlds like mars and venus to habitable areas.(Venus would also need a bunch of the atmosphere removed, but if we're able to move planets that should be easy stuff).

IDK if it will EVER be feasible to move planets (we would probably need to be as advanced as the empire in star wars to do such a thing), but there are also less high-tech solutions to keeping the Earth habitable. The problem is the increasing luminosity of the sun, and there are some surprisingly 'low-tech' solutions which don't require us to move planets. I could see a future civilization simply putting a reflective 'mesh' into space between us and the sun. This mesh could be used to attenuate the amount of sunlight hitting the Earth as needed.
If we're talking Kardashev scale, moving planetary orbits would likely be a type II trait. I don't think it would require interstellar resources at all, so not quite an Empire-worthy task.

I don't know about using some sort of barrier vs moving a planet on a technological scale. Creating something big enough and strong enough to use as a planetary sunscreen would likely mean we have the tech to harvest and build things at a planet-sized scale in space. Moving a planet (albeit slowly) would likely be doable with a massive gravity tractor at that level. Sure you won't be able to move the Earth in a few years, but an outward spiral could be set in motion that takes the Earth slowly outwards over hundreds of millions of years. Just turn the moon into a rocket, and that's all you need.

Granted, the low tech space-based solution is really to just put a dust cloud around Earth and sacrifice space travel. The easiest solution would be to create massive ground-based biodomes to control conditions.
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Old 07-27-2016, 05:53 PM #345
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Default Re: Space Discussion Thread

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If we're talign Kardashev scale, moving planetare orbits would likely be a type II trait. I don't think it would require interstellar resources at all, so not quite an Empire-worthy task.

I don't know about using some sort of barrier vs moving a planet on a technological scale. Creating something big enough and strong enough to use as a planetary sunscreen would likely mean we have the tech to harvest and build things at a planet-sized scale in space. Moving a planet (albeit slowly) would likely be doable with a massive gravity tractor at that level. Sure you won't be able to move the Earth in a few years, but an outward spiral could be set in motion that takes the Earth slowly outwards over hundreds of millions of years. Just turn the moon into a rocket, and that's all you need.

Granted, the low tech space-based solution is really to just put a dust cloud around Earth and sacrifice space travel. The easiest solution would be to create massive ground-based biodomes to control conditions.
Yes! Also, while listening to a documentary, a Type II civilization is immortal since they can control anything within star systems. If there's a meteor they can simply stop it. If there's a super nova, they can simply move to another star system.

Pretty amazing

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Old 07-27-2016, 08:34 PM #346
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Default Re: Space Discussion Thread

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I could see a future civilization simply putting a reflective 'mesh' into space between us and the sun. This mesh could be used to attenuate the amount of sunlight hitting the Earth as needed.
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Old 07-28-2016, 12:33 AM #347
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IDK if it will EVER be feasible to move planets
It would be possible to do so today, albeit very slowly.

Moving a planet might seem a very difficult task, but that is only true if you want to do it quickly. If we would launch sails in orbit with some mechanism to keep them facing the sun a good part of the time, that already would push the earth away from the sun.

The rate would be extremely low, but over a million years it could make a difference. There is, after all, no friction to overcome here, and the tiniest of force would be able to add significant momentum given enough time.

One question is if we should mess with the plantes orbit if we can: we could push away to compensate for global warming, but that could royally screw us over if we have a huge volcanic eruption in the future and make the following ice age worse.
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Old 07-28-2016, 12:38 AM #348
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Default Re: Space Discussion Thread

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It would be possible to do so today, albeit very slowly.

Moving a planet might seem a very difficult task, but that is only true if you want to do it quickly. If we would launch sails in orbit with some mechanism to keep them facing the sun a good part of the time, that already would push the earth away from the sun.

The rate would be extremely low, but over a million years it could make a difference. There is, after all, no friction to overcome here, and the tiniest of force would be able to add significant momentum given enough time.

One question is if we should mess with the plantes orbit if we can: we could push away to compensate for global warming, but that could royally screw us over if we have a huge volcanic eruption in the future and make the following ice age worse.
Yeah, good point! Plus, I don't think we should go about messing with the gravity between the planets quite yet until we know what the hec we are doing. Being as there is no friction in space, you would also need a system to counteract the forces pushing the planet outward to slow down. This is may be the only hope we have until we get to find another home, just slowly keep pushing ourselves out as the habitable zone becomes further & further from the Earth's present location.

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Old 07-28-2016, 01:28 PM #349
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Default Re: Space Discussion Thread

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Being as there is no friction in space, you would also need a system to counteract the forces pushing the planet outward to slow down.
Not to criticize too much, but that's a serious misunderstanding of orbital mechanics. Really, to go into a farther orbit, you need to increase the tangential speed of an object, and gravity will allow it to move outwards. No need to slow down since removing the accelerating force will cause the object to immediately settle into orbital equilibrium.

The counteracting force would therefore not be necessary since it's already provided by gravity and a circular path.

The ISS is a good example of this. Any time it's reboosted, the thrusters on the trailing end will fire to speed it up and raise altitude. They don't "brake" since that would cause it to fall back down. Lots of good videos of this.

Totally an understandable mistake though. Physics gets much more pure than we're used to when talking about space travel, so it's not always intuitive.
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Old 07-28-2016, 03:26 PM #350
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Default Re: Space Discussion Thread

Yes, slowing the earth down sufficiently would actually cause it to fall into the sun. Tip for all you mad scientists and super villains out there.
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Old 07-28-2016, 05:11 PM #351
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Default Re: Space Discussion Thread

True! Forgot about that whoops :/

Edit: Good thing im not in charge of space

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Old 07-31-2016, 12:36 AM #352
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Default Re: Space Discussion Thread

Luckily there is quite a bit of knowledge on how orbital mechanics work.

If we were ever able to fit the earth with some drive system to alter the orbit around the sun operating that would probably be left to experts, preventing stupid mistakes like going on 'reverse thrust' or 'forward thrust' resulting in a crazy ellipitical orbit instead of a neat orbital transfer that requires 2 bursts half a year apart.

Currently the whole ordeal is irrelevant since we cannot do it, but if we ever develop the technical ability it would be a challenge to find someone to leave the decision to. People spread over the world have different things to gain or lose from adjusting orbit. Even ofsetting for global warming would have huge negative implications on many regions, from failing crops to shipping lanes freezing over.
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