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Old 06-06-2016, 03:59 AM #177
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Default Re: Space Discussion Thread

Or this!



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Old 06-07-2016, 01:44 AM #178
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Default Re: Space Discussion Thread

I'm not really sure what the difference is between a planet and a roughly spherical gas cloud, apart from that a planet must orbit a star.

I suppose there is an upper limit to the size of either that prevents them from eventually condensing into a star though if they are comprised of mostly hydrogen or other fusible atoms.

Also, density is not uniform. On average the density can be anything you want depening on how you define the edge of a gas planet. If you choose a fairly wide edge (say all that has a density of over 1 g/m3 or something) the average density might be fairly low, but there would still be a center with a large density.

Even for a planet like earth with a pretty clear boundary between planet and atmosphere the differences are pretty large. Surface water has a density of about 1 kg/dm3, surface rock about 3 kg/dm3, but the inner core is at 13 kg/dm3, with the average in the order of 5 kg/m3 for the entire planet (i.e. all that is below the atmosphere, though even all of that is a very thin shell on earth).
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Old 06-07-2016, 05:20 AM #179
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Default Re: Space Discussion Thread

These CME's and flares are absolutely huge, yet unimaginably tiny on the scale of the universe.





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Old 06-07-2016, 05:28 AM #180
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Default Re: Space Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benm View Post
...In theory it could just be a bundle of smaller objects orbiting eachother, though at that mass they should have coagulated at some point....
I think you meant "coalesced"
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Old 06-08-2016, 01:30 AM #181
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Default Re: Space Discussion Thread

Yeah... my background is in chemistry and i guess terminology sticks from time to time
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Old 06-08-2016, 01:48 AM #182
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Default Re: Space Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benm View Post
Yeah... my background is in chemistry and i guess terminology sticks from time to time
I knew it! It's not like our conversation about fume hoods gave it away.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shakenawake View Post
I think you meant "coalesced"
I think you meant "accreted".

I don't like the tense, but talk to legitimate professional astronomers, and they're always throwing accretion around.
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Old 06-08-2016, 01:56 AM #183
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Default Re: Space Discussion Thread



part of the definition of accreted:

"grow by accumulation or coalescence."

semantics lol
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Old 06-08-2016, 02:16 AM #184
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Default Re: Space Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shakenawake View Post


part of the definition of accreted:

"grow by accumulation or coalescence."

semantics lol
Exactly the point, I just wouldn't want to say that around a professional since they're uptight on the terminology.

Unless of course I (or others) wanted to trigger them.
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Old 06-08-2016, 03:09 AM #185
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Default Re: Space Discussion Thread

looks like it is the most used term. however, within this article I also found the other two

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accretion_(astrophysics)

"As the Universe continued to expand and cool, the atoms lost enough kinetic energy, and dark matter coalesced sufficiently, to form protogalaxies."

"As dust particles grow by coagulation, they acquire increasingly large relative velocities with respect to other particles in their vicinity, as well as a systematic inward drift velocity, that leads to destructive collisions, and thereby limit the growth of the aggregates to some maximum size."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nebular_hypothesis

"These clouds are gravitationally unstable, and matter coalesces within them to smaller denser clumps, which then rotate, collapse, and form stars."
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Old 06-08-2016, 03:17 AM #186
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Default Re: Space Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shakenawake View Post
looks like it is the most used term. however, within this article I also found the other two

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accretion_(astrophysics)

"As the Universe continued to expand and cool, the atoms lost enough kinetic energy, and dark matter coalesced sufficiently, to form protogalaxies."

"As dust particles grow by coagulation, they acquire increasingly large relative velocities with respect to other particles in their vicinity, as well as a systematic inward drift velocity, that leads to destructive collisions, and thereby limit the growth of the aggregates to some maximum size."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nebular_hypothesis

"These clouds are gravitationally unstable, and matter coalesces within them to smaller denser clumps, which then rotate, collapse, and form stars."
That's awesome. You don't know how much crap I get about this sort of stuff from my physics and astronomy major buddies. I'd show it to them, but they'll get defensive and probably go edit the article.

Joke's on them though. Engineers make more money and don't need PhDs to be competitive.

Edit: Then again, "coagulation" and "coalescence" might actually be related to more specific phenomena.
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Old 06-08-2016, 04:38 PM #187
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Default Re: Space Discussion Thread

Quote:
Genetic engineering, and other forms of augmentation would definitely permit for a lot more efficient exploration of space. I'm afraid that those kinds of developments will be stifled due to religious fundamentalist though.
Let's not blame everything on folks who are religious or believe in God. You are suggesting the engineering of a freakish slave race to explore "space" - something that is mostly nothing! Some ideas, such as this one, i.e. genetically engineering humans just so they can some day explore space as your slaves, is just a very very bad idea.
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Old 06-08-2016, 05:00 PM #188
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Default Re: Space Discussion Thread

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Let's not blame everything on folks who are religious or believe in God. You are suggesting the engineering of a freakish slave race to explore "space" - something that is mostly nothing! Some ideas, such as this one, i.e. genetically engineering humans just so they can some day explore space as your slaves, is just a very very bad idea.
Yeah. I totally agree the moral dilemmas around this are way more far-reaching than religious. Such a degree of genetic engineering would be highly controversial, and I think it'd currently be a very unpopular idea among many groups if it was doable right now.
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Old 06-08-2016, 05:02 PM #189
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Default Re: Space Discussion Thread

Slaves? Not sure where you got that from. While I do see the potential benefit of having semi sentient automatons, whether biological, mechanical, or some mix of the two, I meant humans, made with genetic changes, to better deal with the rigors of space. For example, in zero G, having feet that are more like hands, with toes able to grasp would be quite a bit more useful.

There is also a fair that in the not too distant future, genetic and physical augmentation will not be limited to those not yet born, and many would love the chance to explore space.

Yet, religion is where most opposition comes from whenever genetic engineering comes into play. Science would have advanced by at least 5-10 more, had basically christians, muslims, and jews not basically freaked out about stem cells.

Imagine the uproar if a researcher proposes experimenting with ways to fundamentally alter the human genome and shape the physical form.
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Old 06-08-2016, 05:27 PM #190
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Default Re: Space Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by InfinitusEquitas View Post
Slaves? Not sure where you got that from. While I do see the potential benefit of having semi sentient automatons, whether biological, mechanical, or some mix of the two, I meant humans, made with genetic changes, to better deal with the rigors of space. For example, in zero G, having feet that are more like hands, with toes able to grasp would be quite a bit more useful.

There is also a fair that in the not too distant future, genetic and physical augmentation will not be limited to those not yet born, and many would love the chance to explore space.

Yet, religion is where most opposition comes from whenever genetic engineering comes into play. Science would have advanced by at least 5-10 more, had basically christians, muslims, and jews not basically freaked out about stem cells.

Imagine the uproar if a researcher proposes experimenting with ways to fundamentally alter the human genome and shape the physical form.
It may become necessary one day. I said something about this once in another thread and it wasn't taken seriously but I'll say it again. One day we may have problems with overpopulation, food supply, and other resources, and of course it's not easy for people to travel in space. If we genetically altered people to be half the size they are now, then the earth could support twice as many people and it would also be easier to send them into space, they wouldn't require as large of a ship to travel in space, does that sound crazy? I am not so sure it does.

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Old 06-08-2016, 05:35 PM #191
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Default Re: Space Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by Pi R Squared View Post
It may become necessary one day. I said something about this once in another thread and it wasn't taken seriously but I'll say it again. One day we may have problems with overpopulation, food supply, and other resources, and of course it's not easy for people to travel in space. If we genetically altered people to be half the size they are now, then the earth could support twice as many people and it would also be easier to send them into space, they wouldn't require as large of a ship to travel in space, does that sound crazy? I am not so sure it does.
I've gone a step further in the past and suggested we will eventually, in the very very far off future, will no longer need corporeal bodies at all, so that doesn't sound crazy to me at all.

Don't think people will want to change themselves to be smaller, but they will want to enhance themselves in other ways, for example, better vision, hearing, stamina, higher mental capacity, etc,.

We will also likely see somewhat of a separation of the species, starting with the enhanced vs normal (Gattaca comes to mind) and further differentiation to different purposes. Currently, we're kind of multipurpose, for the most past able to survive pretty much anywhere in the world on land. Given the option I'm sure some would want to enhance those abilities, to say need less water, and tolerate far greater heat, or conversely to live in the cold with little discomfort, or... underwater.
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Old 06-08-2016, 05:39 PM #192
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Default Re: Space Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by InfinitusEquitas View Post
Slaves? Not sure where you got that from. While I do see the potential benefit of having semi sentient automatons, whether biological, mechanical, or some mix of the two, I meant humans, made with genetic changes, to better deal with the rigors of space. For example, in zero G, having feet that are more like hands, with toes able to grasp would be quite a bit more useful.

There is also a fair that in the not too distant future, genetic and physical augmentation will not be limited to those not yet born, and many would love the chance to explore space.

Yet, religion is where most opposition comes from whenever genetic engineering comes into play. Science would have advanced by at least 5-10 more, had basically christians, muslims, and jews not basically freaked out about stem cells.

Imagine the uproar if a researcher proposes experimenting with ways to fundamentally alter the human genome and shape the physical form.
The process of genetically modifying people should totally be okay if we figure out how to do it to adults. It's a lot more reasonable to create more survivable future astronauts this way.

While "slaves" is a bit extreme, that is what they'd boil down to if we were to genetically engineer people from birth to better survive an environment that still isn't fully habitable and has yet to be developed or explored.

That said, if Earth was in a apocalyptic situation, I think it'd be reasonable to engineer people that can survive space to attempt to continue the human legacy on another planet.

I'd still disagree that religion is the major force behind holding this stuff back. While embryonic stem cells created a stigma for stem cell research as a whole, there isn't really any direct religious opposition towards other sources as long as they understand the differences. Once people understand other form of stem cell uses, they usually seem pretty accepting of it.

I think that embryonic stem cell research shouldn't be so opposed though. I'm of the belief that a tiny bundle of a few cells is not a person yet.

Genetic engineering from birth undoubtedly does have religious opposition, but a lot of that comes from common morals and huge uncertainty. Really, I think anybody with a respect for human life and a decent understanding of genetic modification would be very uncomfortable modifying a child. There's too much risk and uncertainty in the current time, and we still don't know how much better or farther that can get. GM is very risky with a high likeliness of perpetual consequences.

EDIT:
Quote:
I've gone a step further in the past and suggested we will eventually, in the very very far off future, will no longer need corporeal bodies at all, so that doesn't sound crazy to me at all.
Yes. If we could even just come up with a way to passively store a human's consciousness on a computer for reinsertion into a physical body later, that would be amazing.

People could be stored on a small spacecraft that could gather up the necessary materials to reconstitute them later. Like donating your body to science when you died, you could donate your consciousness for space travel.
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Last edited by Rivem; 06-08-2016 at 05:45 PM.
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