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Old 05-16-2008, 10:10 AM #1
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Default Sodium Acetate

Well I decided to make some sodium acetate this morning and it works well I was thinking if there was a way for me to use it to store heat during the summer for winter use. Then I started thinking that it would be cool to shine my green laser through it while it was crystalizing and film it. only problem is my homemade stuff is brown anybody know how to make it clear?
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Old 05-16-2008, 01:29 PM #2
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Default Re: Sodium Acetate

why do you need it? :-?
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Old 05-16-2008, 01:33 PM #3
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Default Re: Sodium Acetate

Quote:
Originally Posted by ardyp
why do you need it? :-?
As I said I was doing some experiments to see if I could use it to store heat during the summer to use in the winter.
And I don't really need anything that I have but I still have them. Curiosity hopefully won't kill the cat.


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Old 05-16-2008, 02:32 PM #4
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Default Re: Sodium Acetate

How did you make it? I mean, you can just get some sodium cation based ionic compund like sodium bicarbonate and reacte it with vinegar (acetic acid) to form it, so if you did something like that what did you use?

Almost looks like you used brown vinegar or something, lol
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Old 05-16-2008, 02:41 PM #5
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Default Re: Sodium Acetate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Murudai
How did you make it? I mean, you can just get some sodium cation based ionic compund like sodium bicarbonate and reacte it with vinegar (acetic acid) to form it, so if you did something like that what did you use?

Almost looks like you used brown vinegar or something, lol
Sodium bicarbonate (baking Soda) and white vinegar just need to boil it down until it starts turning a bit brown like that and your good to go, lots of vids and instructions on google. I used Wine vinegar because i'm in Italy but cane vinegar costs less I think on the other side of the world.
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Old 05-16-2008, 03:04 PM #6
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Default Re: Sodium Acetate

Quote:
Originally Posted by thejunkmonger
[quote author=Murudai link=1210932659/0#3 date=1210948351]How did you make it? I mean, you can just get some sodium cation based ionic compund like sodium bicarbonate and reacte it with vinegar (acetic acid) to form it, so if you did something like that what did you use?

Almost looks like you used brown vinegar or something, lol
Sodium bicarbonate (baking Soda) and white vinegar just need to boil it down until it starts turning a bit brown like that and your good to go, lots of vids and instructions on google. I used Wine vinegar because i'm in Italy but cane vinegar costs less I think on the other side of the world.
[/quote]

lol, of course I know HOW to make it, I'm a chemistry student at University ;D

What I'm trying to figure out though is why yours turned brown. I'd say impurities in the vinegar. I can think of some tests you could do to figure out what the impurity is, but that involves pretty fancy chemicals and multi million dollar equipment, so probably not
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Old 05-16-2008, 03:09 PM #7
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Default Re: Sodium Acetate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Murudai
[quote author=thejunkmonger link=1210932659/0#4 date=1210948871][quote author=Murudai link=1210932659/0#3 date=1210948351]How did you make it? I mean, you can just get some sodium cation based ionic compund like sodium bicarbonate and reacte it with vinegar (acetic acid) to form it, so if you did something like that what did you use?

Almost looks like you used brown vinegar or something, lol
Sodium bicarbonate (baking Soda) and white vinegar just need to boil it down until it starts turning a bit brown like that and your good to go, lots of vids and instructions on google. I used Wine vinegar because i'm in Italy but cane vinegar costs less I think on the other side of the world.
[/quote]

lol, of course I know HOW to make it, I'm a chemistry student at University *;D

What I'm trying to figure out though is why yours turned brown. I'd say impurities in the vinegar. I can think of some tests you could do to figure out what the impurity is, but that involves pretty fancy chemicals and multi million dollar equipment, so probably not *
[/quote]

Yes I figure i need to filter it alot , was hoping for something faster I guess i'll get around to it some day. Or better yet just tear open a heatpack....
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Old 05-16-2008, 03:14 PM #8
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Default Re: Sodium Acetate

Filtering it won't do much, this isn't like dirt or something. The impurities would be in solution with the vinegar, and then would become solid and react out just like the sodium acetate part, so you wouldn't be able to filter it out.

What do you even need it for? Storing heat from summer for winter use?

It doesn't 'store' heat, it's just a chemical change (though, I guess that is 'storing heat'). You could hold more 'heat' per weight in batteries connected to a small heater or something.
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Old 05-16-2008, 03:19 PM #9
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Default Re: Sodium Acetate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Murudai
Filtering it won't do much, this isn't like dirt or something. The impurities would be in solution with the vinegar, and then would become solid and react out just like the sodium acetate part, so you wouldn't be able to filter it out.

What do you even need it for? Storing heat from summer for winter use?

It doesn't 'store' heat, it's just a chemical change (though, I guess that is 'storing heat'). You could hold more weight per weight in batteries connected to a small heater or something.
Ok here is what I was thinking a big underground tub full of this stuff and a solar concentrator that would heat it up during the summer, in this tub there would be a serpentine coil running to my radiators in the house. In the winter i'd have a solenoid bang the vat or something to start the reaction and circulate the closed circuit system through my radiators. have no idea how long it would last but so far with my experiments i can control the rate of crystal growth by evaporating more or less water left in the solution.

PS you do realize I have no idea what i'm talking about right? but i'm trying

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Old 05-16-2008, 03:28 PM #10
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Default Re: Sodium Acetate

Okay, nice idea in theory... But in practice, sodium acetate just isn't potent enough to store heat like that

Plus, when you release it it would go all at once, you'd get a huge massive heat build up and after a day or so it was dissipate and you'd freeze for the rest of winter

In fact, I can think of a lot of ways that won't work ;D

There are just so many better ways to get heat in the winter
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Old 05-16-2008, 03:34 PM #11
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Default Re: Sodium Acetate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Murudai
Okay, nice idea in theory... But in practice, sodium acetate just isn't potent enough to store heat like that

Plus, when you release it it would go all at once, you'd get a huge massive heat build up and after a day or so it was dissipate and you'd freeze for the rest of winter

In fact, I can think of a lot of ways that won't work *;D

There are just so many better ways to get heat in the winter

Yeah well the also said the levitron was impossible until someone did it :P and i'm sure 10,000 liters of acetic acid won't cost me too much
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Old 05-16-2008, 03:51 PM #12
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Default Re: Sodium Acetate

Lets turn copper into gold while we're at it :

The heat that sodium acetate can 'store' is just not enough to be practical You would need HEAPS of it, so much that it just isn't practical.

And also, how it works is forming a super saturated solution. If even a bit of dust got into your vat, it would form a nucleation center and crystallize out and your solution would all go off at once There's a reason they stick those things in closed bags you can't open, they wouldn't work if impurities got in there.

And that's another point. The impurities a home brew solution would gather would prevent the super saturated solution from forming properly, and that's where the properties of this compound come from.

Trust me, it just won't happen
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Old 05-16-2008, 03:56 PM #13
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Default Re: Sodium Acetate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Murudai
Lets turn copper into gold while we're at it *:

The heat that sodium acetate can 'store' is just not enough to be practical You would need HEAPS of it, so much that it just isn't practical.

And also, how it works is forming a super saturated solution. If even a bit of dust got into your vat, it would form a nucleation center and crystallize out and your solution would all go off at once There's a reason they stick those things in closed bags you can't open, they wouldn't work if impurities got in there.

And that's another point. The impurities a home brew solution would gather would prevent the super saturated solution from forming properly, and that's where the properties of this compound come from.

Trust me, it just won't happen
well the impure one I made actually works better than I thought it would, it has never started to crystalize without an external push.
and about turning copper into gold in our not so near future copper will probably cost like gold. They are even stealing it off of the wires in train switching stations here.
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Old 05-16-2008, 04:00 PM #14
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Default Re: Sodium Acetate

Trust me, a little jar and a vat with 100 tons of the stuff are very different ball games

Look, if you are willing to spend a few hundred thousand dollars setting this thing up (the equipment will be far more expensive than the chemicals) that's fine by me. But be prepared to have me say 'I TOLD YOU SO' until the end of time
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Old 05-16-2008, 04:06 PM #15
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Default Re: Sodium Acetate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Murudai
Trust me, a little jar and a vat with 100 tons of the stuff are very different ball games

Look, if you are willing to spend a few hundred thousand dollars setting this thing up (the equipment will be far more expensive than the chemicals) that's fine by me. But be prepared to have me say 'I TOLD YOU SO' until the end of time

LOL a few hundred grand I can't even afford to buy a Blu-Ray LMAO
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Old 05-16-2008, 04:12 PM #16
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Default Re: Sodium Acetate

Just stick with the good ol' heater plugged into a powerpoint :

Sodium Acetate is not used in heating beyond those little heat packs for a lot of very good reasons :
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