Reputation System Discussion and Poll

Re: Poll: Spreading the love .... NOT!!!!!

I fixed my previous post that should have said "it is LIKELY" that a drastic change will cause far more problems that they are worth."
Dread, I never said anything against your right to post your opinion. There's been lots of drama here before over other issues and this issue and my opinion is that just because you state that you "understand this drama quite well" from past experience from other sites doesn't just make it true in this case. It's been my experience visiting other forums that the dynamic is different here. Our past is what has made the forum the way it has become and "using an old system with little changes is outdated" comment doesn't make that statement true just because there hasn't been changes. That statement infers that because a way of doing something hasn't changed in a long term means that it can't be good and that another way MUST be better just because it is a change.
Your use of the word "old" is at issue because of the way you are using it as a negative. Old doesn't mean bad/inferior like you keep inferring.
You completely missed what I actually said about why I said to switch back somehow. I said to switch back so the complaints about the way it is NOW would go away so we could get back to the way people understood and was better than THIS current way that is causing FAR more grief so we can then decide where to go from there without all the comments on the current way. There is 0% who voted in the poll for the current way. What's so difficult to understand?
Infin explained what I was saying pretty well. You claim you understand all of this but I'm not the only one that has tried to point out that you dont and you prove it out with your statements calling our opinions silly. You might as well call anyone not wanting to make changes and make those changes only from the current way that almost everyone else can't stand fools. You are saying that everyone has a right to comment and have opinions as long as they agree with your way when you double down and dig your heals in to defend your position with the kind of statements you are making
Please read post #130 again if for nothing else than to see why this all came about to begin with. Everyone wasn't up in arms over the REP system itself. It was the abuse of it. One person is gone and the other is trying to chill out some and won't do it anymore. Avery and the mods made their decision on how to handle it at that point for a quick fix. Most are not happy about it and this will get solved with everyone clearly not agreeing on the solution but that's life.
I will state that I believe getting rid of the REP system will not be good for the sites overall health. They may just be some stupid points to some but for many they are part of the overall feel good slap on the back for sharing and helping out and a way to be kind to others to help build relationships. It's a feel good incentive that I think is a good thing for the site so I obviously disagree with Ears and eggs. Doesn't mean I don't appreciate his opinion and I do thank him for being willing to be a mod. I don't think there's too much joy in the job.
The issue that really needs to be addressed is negative REP concerning when it is legit. Maybe the mods should get to decide if someone actually deserves it so it isn't abused. I don't think there's so much negative given out that they couldn't deal with it. Maybe we should be required to contact a mod first before giving it and if they aprove they would hand it out just like the other banned type punishments. Just a thought.

Pete

Re: Poll: Spreading the love .... NOT!!!!!

Can we just take away the reputation? I mean, how many pages have gone talking about reputation on this thread alone. Like 7?

I also tend to focus way to much on my reputation which in a way sucks, it's a deterrent to me and would like it gone!

Ok, Hap's final saying

-Alex

Re: Poll: Spreading the love .... NOT!!!!!

Ok this is total bullshit! And I can't keep quiet any more. Don't anyone reading this who is newer here and doesn't know what's going on think for a second that this was just because of a dispute between Cyparagon and Alaskan! No one should be spouting that kind of bullshit here because it is bullshit. Let's not forget who started this problem long ago, it was Cyparagon, why is no one here even willing to say his name? I'll tell you why, few will stand up to him because the average person here is outguned by him 10 to 1 because of the rep system.


When you negrep someone and tell them they have another one coming and negrep them again in two days, and then do the same again a few days later, I would say that is not only dispicable behavior, it is a clear attempt to cause trouble and harass someone, this person eventually gets angry and won't let it go and ends up saying things they shouldn't and then they get banned and no action taken against Cyparagon. He attacked USAbro in this way, imagine how entertaining this place would still be if he was still here, but Cyparagon attacked him and he ended up being banned. The same with starlight, he then also got angry and wouldn't let it go. Again the same with VG. And then Alaskan. I don't know who else, but he can't be allowed to attack members in this way. You know there are members and former members here who became friends who talk to each other, and once in awile Cyparagon's name comes up, there are more than several here who don't like him, of course that is obviously what he wants. If you take the letters that spell "C y p a r a g o n" and rearrange them you get the words "agony" and "crap", those two words perfectly describe what he has brought to this forum. Since no action will be taken against him, then the rep system should not go back to the way it was, as a result we have all been victimized by his troublemaking.

Alan

Re: Poll: Spreading the love .... NOT!!!!!

It also spells....... Capy argon....... angry Copa........Cyro pagan.......pyro Cagan.......no gay Crap.....ray Can pog.....cop an gray.....rag any cop.....con ran pay

Re: Poll: Spreading the love .... NOT!!!!!

Pi R Squared said:

attacked USAbro in this way, imagine how entertaining this place would still be if he was still here, but Cyparagon attacked him and he ended up being banned.

Click to expand...

USABro, multiple accounts. Banned.
VG, multiple accounts. Banned.
Starlight, wove a tapestry of insults the likes of which has never been seen by LPF before. Then hung it out for everyone to see. Banned (edit: temporarily).

Plus, I think you remember USABro wrong. He posted hard core ****ography here among other things. He is a serial troublemaker. Definitely not "entertaining" is a good way.

Cyparagon was not responsible for their transgressions, they did that all on their own. Why you are trying to defend unscrupulous members and blame their transgressions on Cyparagon is beyond me.

Re: Poll: Spreading the love .... NOT!!!!!

ARG said:

Plus, I think you remember USABro wrong. He posted hard core ****ography here among other things. He is a serial troublemaker. Definitely not "entertaining" is a good way.

Click to expand...

I never saw any such thing, I spend so much time online here I find it hard to imagine that I missed it. I remember Cyparagon repeatedly attacking him in the religion thread and things went down hill from there, he was a member in good standing before that.

ARG said:

USABro, multiple accounts. Banned.
VG, multiple accounts. Banned.

Click to expand...

If they had multiple accounts then sure they deserved to be banned, but I didn't see them causing trouble until after Cyparagon attacked them with negreps. I think he purposely attacks people he doesn't like or that say things he strongly disagrees with and tries to run them off. They all took offense to this and wouldn't let it go.

ARG said:

Starlight, wove a tapestry of insults the likes of which has never been seen by LPF before. Then hung it out for everyone to see. Banned (edit: temporarily).

Click to expand...

Yes I know, I made the list of those he insulted, he and I had an argument in the gun thread, another controversial topic but we could have got past it. I don't remember now what thread or why but Cyparagon provoked him the same way and he wouldn't forget about it, just like VG he kept saying bad things about Cyparagon after that and eventually the insults.

ARG said:

Cyparagon was not responsible for their transgressions, they did that all on their own.

Click to expand...

He provoked them, I didn't see them causing trouble before that.

ARG said:

Why you are trying to defend unscrupulous members and blame their transgressions on Cyparagon is beyond me.

Click to expand...

It seems to me like you may be defending an unscrupulous member, but it appears more likely that we both have missed some things that happened here. Non of us reads all of every thread posted, although I do come close to it.

Alan

Re: Poll: Spreading the love .... NOT!!!!!

Pi R Squared said:

I never saw any such thing, I spend so much time online here I find it hard to imagine that I missed it.

Click to expand...

It was removed very quickly. (a couple minutes IIRC)

Pi R Squared said:

If they had multiple accounts then sure they deserved to be banned, but I didn't see them causing trouble until after Cyparagon attacked them with negreps. I think he purposely attacks people he doesn't like or that say things he strongly disagrees with and tries to run them off. They all took offense to this and wouldn't let it go.

Click to expand...

VG was the second account of CrazyJay, who was previous banned for causing trouble (before my time, I'm not sure of the details). His issues existed before Cyparagon got involved.

Pi R Squared said:

Yes I know, I made the list of those he insulted, he and I had an argument in the gun thread, another controversial topic but we could have got past it. I don't remember now what thread or why but Cyparagon provoked him the same way and he wouldn't forget about it, just like VG he kept saying bad things about Cyparagon after that and eventually the insults.

Click to expand...

Starlight insulted many people in that thread. I doubt the source of the issue was Cyparagon but rather multiple people in aggregate.

Pi R Squared said:

He provoked them, I didn't see them causing trouble before that.

It seems to me like you may be defending an unscrupulous member, but it appears more likely that we both have missed some things that happened here. Non of us reads all of every thread posted, although I do come close to it.

Click to expand...

Here's the part that I disagree with. Cyparagon left them a negative rep, and they started to get out of hand. Any person who is easily offended by something as simple as a neg rep would be causing problems no matter what. If not Cyparagon than someone (or something) else.



I am not defending the actions of Cyparagon, but rather trying to show that these members were troublemakers in any environment. Even though Cyparagon may have sparked some bad behavior on their part it would have happened with or without him.

They are the only person responsible for their actions. No member acting within the rules can be held accountable for someones actions outside them.

Re: Poll: Spreading the love .... NOT!!!!!

Pi R Squared said:

I remember Cyparagon repeatedly attacking him in the religion thread

Click to expand...

This is an odd emotionally-charged thing to say. Disagreeing with someone isn't the same thing as attacking them. Giving negative reputation for negative behavior isn't attacking them.

Also, why bring up stuff that happened a year ago?

Pi R Squared said:

He provoked them

Click to expand...

I'm sorry? Since when am I responsible for the actions of others? Conversely, am I absolved of responsibility if someone provokes me? Would it be reasonable for me to throw a tantrum just now and later claim it was because you provoked me? Because you made me do it? You'd be laughed out of court with a defense like that.

ARG said:

Starlight insulted many people in that thread.

Click to expand...

And I wasn't even in the list! :crackup:

But you were, Pi R Squared. It would be pretty fckin' goofy if I were to say you provoked him, wouldn't it?

Pi R Squared said:

I think he purposely attacks people he doesn't like or that say things he strongly disagrees with and tries to run them off

Click to expand...

And I've stated several times that it was simply my policy that if a user's post negatively contributed to the conversation, they get negative reputation. I've also seen people generally regard that as an unreasonable response. While I disagree with them, I've also already said I'll no longer be doing that. And I haven't. So maybe relax a little bit.

Re: Poll: Spreading the love .... NOT!!!!!

ARG said:

Starlight insulted many people in that thread. I doubt the source of the issue was Cyparagon but rather multiple people in aggregate.

Click to expand...

I think Cyparagon was the start of the issue but yes later it was multiple people, I was one of them, but I never negreped him.

ARG said:

Here's the part that I disagree with. Cyparagon left them a negative rep, and they started to get out of hand. Any person who is easily offended by something as simple as a neg rep would be causing problems no matter what. If not Cyparagon than someone (or something) else.

Click to expand...

I would agree if it was just a negrep, a negrep and a post telling them they have another one coming followed by multiple negreps should offend anyone.

ARG said:

I am not defending the actions of Cyparagon, but rather trying to show that these members were troublemakers in any environment. Even though Cyparagon may have sparked some bad behavior on their part it would have happened with or without him.

Click to expand...

I am not sure of that, it could be, but we will never know.

ARG said:

They are the only person responsible for their actions. No member acting within the rules can be held accountable for someones actions outside them.

Click to expand...

I agree in part but not completely, a senior vet with very high rep shouldn't take advantage of his ability to run off a member just because he doesn't agree with them and doesn't like them. You can't expect people to just take whatever is thrown at them and do nothing, people have to stand up and defend themselves, not everyone in the world is a pacifist, those who will tolerate anything deserve what they get.

Alan

Re: Poll: Spreading the love .... NOT!!!!!

Pi R Squared said:

[Cyp] shouldn't take advantage of his ability to run off a member

Click to expand...

Should I change my name to professor X? First you said I could MAKE them throw a tantrum, now you're saying I can MAKE them leave? I don't have NEARLY as much influence over the minds of others as you think I do.

Give people some credit for their own actions.

Pi R Squared said:

a negrep and a post telling them they have another one coming followed by multiple negreps should offend anyone.

Click to expand...

People do that all the time with positives. If you agree two good posts deserve two positive reps, maybe you can understand where I'm coming from if I think two bad posts deserve two negative reps. You're really hung up on this for some reason, so let me reiterate... again: regardless, I won't be doing that any longer. Just don't be so quick to write me off as evil.

Re: Poll: Spreading the love .... NOT!!!!!

Cyparagon said:

This is an odd emotionally-charged thing to say. Disagreeing with someone isn't the same thing as attacking them. Giving negative reputation for negative behavior isn't attacking them.

No it isn't, but you have been known to over do it.

Also, why bring up stuff that happened a year ago?

Why not? It is relevant to this thread, this thread could have been made a year ago. It's because of you this thread was started.

I'm sorry? Since when am I responsible for the actions of others? Conversely, am I absolved of responsibility if someone provokes me? Would it be reasonable for me to throw a tantrum just now and later claim it was because you provoked me? Because you made me do it? You'd be laughed out of court with a defense like that.

I don't know. In any U.S. court the truth usually has nothing to do with anything. I knew a guy a few years ago who picked up a hooker and she was a police officer and he got arrested, believe it or not he had no prior intent until he saw her, legally that is entrapment, but you can't claim that in court under those circumstances. If I smoked cigarettes for 30 years and get cancer, are the tobacco companies responsible or am I? If I get shot by someone can I sue the gun manufacturer? Or is the person who shot me responsible? These things are bullshit to some, valid arguments to others, and a gray area to some others.


And I wasn't even in the list! :crackup:

Oh I think you should read that again, have a look at the first person on his list:

List of dicks
Infinitus equeer : super dick with lots of years of service. 2nd biggest dick on LPF

Notice that he never said who he thought the biggest dick is, he didn't need to to say, it was already known that he thought it was you. He commented about you many times in his posts. I do have to admit that he was over sensitive and over reacted.

But you were, Pi R Squared. It would be pretty fckin' goofy if I were to say you provoked him, wouldn't it?

Well maybe not, I did insult liberals and said things about anti gun people (Americans, not people in other countries), he is both a liberal and anti gun, politics and laws should mostly be an internal matter in every country, what's right for one country isn't right for another.


And I've stated several times that it was simply my policy that if a user's post negatively contributed to the conversation, they get negative reputation. I've also seen people generally regard that as an unreasonable response. While I disagree with them, I've also already said I'll no longer be doing that. And I haven't. So maybe relax a little bit.

Click to expand...

OK I'll try.

Alan

Re: Poll: Spreading the love .... NOT!!!!!

[quote

Re: Poll: Spreading the love .... NOT!!!!!

Cyparagon said:

Should I change my name to professor X? First you said I could MAKE them throw a tantrum, now you're saying I can MAKE them leave? I don't have NEARLY as much influence over the minds of others as you think I do.

Give people some credit for their own actions.

You underestimate your ability, that's a good thing from what I can tell. I've been around long enough and seen and done things that some never have the opportunity to see and do, and I have seen how people react to things, you give people too much credit for their own actions, their actions are often driven by what happens to them, the events around them, the actions of others. You give people to much credit for control over their emotions.


People do that all the time with positives. If you agree two good posts deserve two positive reps, maybe you can understand where I'm coming from if I think two bad posts deserve two negative reps. You're really hung up on this for some reason, so let me reiterate... again: regardless, I won't be doing that any longer. Just don't be so quick to write me off as evil.

Click to expand...

OK for now I will assume that your not evil.

Alan

Re: Poll: Spreading the love .... NOT!!!!!

Pi R Squared said:

Ok this is total bullshit! And I can't keep quiet any more. Don't anyone reading this who is newer here and doesn't know what's going on think for a second that this was just because of a dispute between Cyparagon and Alaskan! No one should be spouting that kind of bullshit here because it is bullshit. Let's not forget who started this problem long ago, it was Cyparagon, why is no one here even willing to say his name? I'll tell you why, few will stand up to him because the average person here is outguned by him 10 to 1 because of the rep system.

When you negrep someone and tell them they have another one coming and negrep them again in two days, and then do the same again a few days later, I would say that is not only dispicable behavior, it is a clear attempt to cause trouble and harass someone, this person eventually gets angry and won't let it go and ends up saying things they shouldn't and then they get banned and no action taken against Cyparagon. He attacked USAbro in this way, imagine how entertaining this place would still be if he was still here, but Cyparagon attacked him and he ended up being banned. The same with starlight, he then also got angry and wouldn't let it go. Again the same with VG. And then Alaskan. I don't know who else, but he can't be allowed to attack members in this way. You know there are members and former members here who became friends who talk to each other, and once in awile Cyparagon's name comes up, there are more than several here who don't like him, of course that is obviously what he wants. If you take the letters that spell "C y p a r a g o n" and rearrange them you get the words "agony" and "crap", those two words perfectly describe what he has brought to this forum. Since no action will be taken against him, then the rep system should not go back to the way it was, as a result we have all been victimized by his troublemaking.

Alan

Click to expand...

You know what's bullshit Alan? This post.

USAbro was an immature 14 year old, who couldn't handle adult interactions.

Starlight picked fights for no reason, and when called out decided to just straight up troll.

VisibleGreen is a troll many times over. I don't think anyone else is willing to say it, but he was known to be CJ, and allowed to remain for a long while. Wouldn't be the first time a banned member came back and was allowed to stay until causing drama again.

And you know what? They aren't even the worst trolls this forum has seen. Not even close. You think Cyp runs people off? You should have seen the way another two vets back on 2011, with the tacit support of a mod used to go about things.

You know why Cyparagon set them off? Because he is terse, factual, and doesn't like BS. Apparently also holds a grudge. Personally I've been tempted many many times to go back and neg rep people per every bad post. Just don't have the patience for it. Still, there is no reason why it's wrong for him to leave a neg rep.

Lastly, if someone can't handle seeing a red square on an online forum, they shouldn't be here. End of story.

Re: Poll: Spreading the love .... NOT!!!!!

While you guy talk about Cyp: I don't deserve the shit I got out of fucking nowhere from Cyp in LF: LED Build Critique thread. Petty spelling corrections and petty technicalities. Shit like that makes me not want to help anyone here, it's just completely demoralizing. He has issues. I just got back here from hiatus ffs.

Also I vote for removing the rep system.

Re: Poll: Spreading the love .... NOT!!!!!

My reaction to this thread: