Reputation System Discussion and Poll

Re: Spreading the love .... NOT!!!!!

Alaskan said:

Funny.... I think I'm going to take a break from LPF for awhile, if I can, I'm so addicted to the forum I check in several times a day, but it has become obvious to me VG is creating a dozen member names using a proxy to hide his IP and even though I had a long talk with him the other day, and don't dislike him personally, I don't like this behavior and being played with. Catch you all later after this all settles down, but it might be weeks to months, maybe never until he stops, I imagine.

Click to expand...

Hi,Alaskan,
Hey it's no addiction to the forum , it's what you love to do build great stuff. Hey i learned a lot from your posts and i think your an asset to the game.There's a few folks in every forum that maybe they think there the greatest thing since sliced white bread granted, but don't let it get the best of you. Kill them with kindness my mom used to tell me when i was young. And if they persist to be an annoyance don't reply to them and let them hang for a while. Don't take your football and go home stick it out with the good guys . Your to good for that , hey i know i'm a little late with the comments provided but from what i read so far about reps well deep down in our hearts we know were our reputations stand. And that's the best anyone can do.Your beam expanders are awesome build what you do best.
Hey will somebody REP me please LOL !! Just Kidding everyone just needs to have fun and laugh again

Rich

Re: Poll: Spreading the love .... NOT!!!!!

Ok everyone please read again what both Ears and Eggs and ARG said:

Ears and Eggs said:

The new rules were kind of a compromise. Ideally those rules would be the best way to go, but there is no way within the options available in the VB control panel to automatically prevent rep of old accounts or posts, or to limit how many times you can rep a certain person in x period of time. The only way to do those things would be to have the mods manually remove the offending reps if they are reported to the staff.

Click to expand...

ARG said:

2. There is very limited functionality on what can be done in the rep system. The features mentioned would be nice to have, but cannot be done in the stock system. Some could be done with plugins, but Avery doesn't like plugins because they could compromise security, which is a well founded concern IMO.

Click to expand...

The following comes from the vBulletin manual, these are the only options available:


"This section contains many settings that dictate how users of your forum are able to affect each other's reputation score.

Enable User Reputation system
This is the global switch for the reputation system. If you disable this, users will not be able to rate each other nor will their scores be visible.

Default Reputation
This is the reputation score that new users will start out with.

Number of Reputation Levels to Display
When a user enters their User CP, they will see a list of their most recent reputation ratings. This affects how many of the latest ratings to display.

Administrator's Reputation Power
If you wish to have administrator's wield a certain reputation power independent of their calculated score, enter it here. Otherwise, set this to 0 and they will use the same calculations as everyone else.

Register Date Factor
The number of reputation points that a user is able to give or take is dependant on several factors, with the length they have been registered as one of them. A user's power is first initialized at 1 and then this factor and the factors that follow are used to increase it. For example if you set this to 365, every 365 days that the user has been a member of your forum, they would gain one point. So if they have been a member for five years, they would gain 5 points of power for a total of 6.

Post Count Factor
The amount of posts that a user has can also affect their reputation power. Set this to number of posts that you want to award one point for. For example, set this to 50 and for a user with 500 posts, they would gain 10 points of power.

Reputation Point Factor
The users current reputation score can also affect their reputation power. Set this to 100 and a user with a reputation of 1000 would gain 10 points of reputation power. If you set any of the power factors to 0, that will effectively remove that factor from having an effect on the user's reputation power.

Minimum Post Count
If the reputation system is enabled, anyone will be able to rate a post but only users with a post count above the level you set here will be able to actually give points or take points from another user.

Minimum Reputation Count
As with the post count above, a user must have a reputation above this level to be able to give or take points from another user's score.

Daily Reputation Clicks Limit
This sets how many unique members that a forum user will be able to rate in any 24 hour period. Administrators can rate as many people as they wish.

Reputation User Spread
This setting dictates how many unique members that a user must rate before they are able to rate the same member twice. The goal of this setting is to stop a member from either artificially bumping or dropping a user by repeatedly rating their posts."

Alan

Re: Poll: Spreading the love .... NOT!!!!!

Pi, that's good information, thanks! :beer:
I'd +rep you, but I can't yet.

Re: Poll: Spreading the love .... NOT!!!!!

Thank you for posting that Alan. Those are the only things we can change, any additional functionality cannot be added.

Choosing how much rep to give/take would be nice, but cannot be implemented.

Re: Poll: Spreading the love .... NOT!!!!!

Only question is, what are the bottom two settings at currently, and what were they before?

Daily Reputation Clicks Limit
This sets how many unique members that a forum user will be able to rate in any 24 hour period. Administrators can rate as many people as they wish.

10?

Reputation User Spread
This setting dictates how many unique members that a user must rate before they are able to rate the same member twice. The goal of this setting is to stop a member from either artificially bumping or dropping a user by repeatedly rating their posts."

20?

Click to expand...

Re: Poll: Spreading the love .... NOT!!!!!

10 & 20 before,
5 & 50 now.

Re: Spreading the love .... NOT!!!!!

InfinitusEquitas said:

That's fine? What tweaks do you propose?

The main issue that the new system has brought about is that people can't leave reps when they want to.

Personally I would like to see the following;
-Ability to control how much rep is given or taken away.
-Keep the limits as they are, but on neg reps only.

This forum is certainly not a democracy, but Avery, and the mods will do what they feel is best for the majority, and what the majority would like. To me it seems that in place of any revisions, the majority of people want to revert to the old system.

Click to expand...

Tweaks which Pi suggested, and just try to see if its justified.

Also ARG, I am going to disagree with your point because repping old members lets you either negrep members or to benefit your own rep. You should get your rep/give rep to active members and not inactive members and honestly, a little surprising that I heard it from you. But people are entitled to their opinion so I respect that wholeheartedly.

Re: Poll: Spreading the love .... NOT!!!!!

Well that definitely explains why the new system feels so restricted.

Voting to going back to 10 and 20, a minimum time period of 10 days with the current system is just too much.

@Dreadnought - Rep can only be given, or received, it can't be taken/gained simply by giving it. At least not without an agreement between giver and receiver to make it reciprocal, which is goes to the question of what merits a plus rep, and really can't be enforced. The old system did by default enforce a 2 day cool off period at a minimum, and rep abuse was fairly obvious.

Re: Spreading the love .... NOT!!!!!

Dreadnought said:

Also ARG, I am going to disagree with your point because repping old members lets you either negrep members or to benefit your own rep. You should get your rep/give rep to active members and not inactive members and honestly, a little surprising that I heard it from you. But people are entitled to their opinion so I respect that wholeheartedly.

Click to expand...

I see your side of the argument (that's why I don't do it anymore) but the point I was trying to get at is that I don't think it is a problem, one can just as easily give out welcome rep to new members to reset the system.

Re: Poll: Spreading the love .... NOT!!!!!

InfinitusEquitas said:

Well that definitely explains why the new system feels so restricted.

Voting to going back to 10 and 20, a minimum time period of 10 days with the current system is just too much.

@Dreadnought - Rep can only be given, or received, it can't be taken/gained simply by giving it. At least not without an agreement between giver and receiver to make it reciprocal, which is goes to the question of what merits a plus rep, and really can't be enforced. The old system did by default enforce a 2 day cool off period at a minimum, and rep abuse was fairly obvious.

Click to expand...

Rep abuse is still an issue, so we need to resolve it instead of ignoring it which some of you are doing. We need to tweak the system, which I have kept suggesting but it feels like you have ignored some of my suggestions.

You are right on what constitutes a plus rep, we might need to concentrate on that.

Re: Poll: Spreading the love .... NOT!!!!!

Dreadnought said:

Rep abuse is still an issue, so we need to resolve it instead of ignoring it which some of you are doing. We need to tweak the system, which I have kept suggesting but it feels like you have ignored some of my suggestions.

Click to expand...

You haven't really offered any viable alternative...

We now know there are only two factors that can be manipulated to effect. So it's really only a question of what those two numbers will be left at.

At a 10/20 spread it means someone would have to remember to rep other people 20 times, which can only be done in a minimum of two days due to the 10 limit. That takes quite a bit of effort.

Edit: There is no way, nor there should be imo, to dictate how people give rep. The "rep abuse" which we keep coming back to, is mostly people throwing a tantrum over getting a neg rep they don't agree with. Actual rep abuse, is fairly rare imo.

Re: Poll: Spreading the love .... NOT!!!!!

InfinitusEquitas said:

You haven't really offered any viable alternative...

We now know there are only two factors that can be manipulated to effect. So it's really only a question of what those two numbers will be left at.

At a 10/20 spread it means someone would have to remember to rep other people 20 times, which can only be done in a minimum of two days due to the 10 limit. That takes quite a bit of effort.

Edit: There is no way, nor there should be imo, to dictate how people give rep. The "rep abuse" which we keep coming back to, is mostly people throwing a tantrum over getting a neg rep they don't agree with. Actual rep abuse, is fairly rare imo.

Click to expand...

It shows that you haven't read my posts because I agree with whar Pi suggested for the system. Go check his suggestions first because you may have not seen me quoting him.

Re: Poll: Spreading the love .... NOT!!!!!

Dreadnought said:

It shows that you haven't read my posts because I agree with whar Pi suggested for the system. Go check his suggestions first because you may have not seen me quoting him.

Click to expand...

"Maybe change the required reps from 40 down to 30, or change the daily limit back to 10."

If that's what you're referring to, I stand by what I said, I still don't see a set number, or well articulated reasons to go to those numbers.

Obviously the 5/50 was an overreaction... to me 10/20 seems reasonable, and has the benefit of having worked well enough for ~7 years.

What exactly are you proposing? What would be the benefit? Maybe ask ARG to update the poll and reset it with the new option.

Re: Poll: Spreading the love .... NOT!!!!!

InfinitusEquitas said:

"Maybe change the required reps from 40 down to 30, or change the daily limit back to 10."

If that's what you're referring to, I stand by what I said, I still don't see a set number, or well articulated reasons to go to those numbers.

Obviously the 5/50 was an overreaction... to me 10/20 seems reasonable, and has the benefit of having worked well enough for ~7 years.

What exactly are you proposing? What would be the benefit? Maybe ask ARG to update the poll and reset it with the new option.

Click to expand...

I say lets tweak by changing the parameters instead of it being 10/20 and see how that works. Some members are not satisfied with the rep system and even though it worked 'well enough' it still needs to be better.

Re: Poll: Spreading the love .... NOT!!!!!

I totally disagree with Pis comment saying "us taking a poll on the REP system is meaningless. No offense intended PI but if what the majority wants is meaningless because Avery and the mods have that attitude then I and I'm sure many others will leave. I know some of these people and consider some of them my friends and they have not treated me or my suggestions with indifference. It's my opinion and that does not mean we are not still friends Alan Good info on post #114 by the way.
I will thank one of my friend mod (Arg) for stepping up and seeing how repping old inactive members is not an honorable thing to do for reasons already discussed and actually admitting to it. Sounds like there no way of blocking someone from doing it unfortunately.
I'm admitting I breezed through all the posts since my last post since there were so many posts past mine and highly suggest the REP system get set back to original way ASAP as it's beyond obvious the way it is now is no good so we can stop complaining about this current system but just go on to figuring out whether any changes need to be made from the original way. It's kind of a pointless waste of energy to keep it the way it is at the moment.
So, change it back and while we all discuss any potential change Avery and/or the mods need to figure out if VG is reading havoc with other usernames and if he is bugging specific individuals what can be done about . Again, please just change the REP system back though for now for everyone's benefit. It can't be that hard can it?
Dread, there are some issues here that go deeper than you know of as this forum has changed in many ways over the years. I obviously disagree with your suggestion to stay with the way the REP is at this moment as it is causing most of us far more grief than there would be if we went back to the previous REP system first and then figure out if anything needs to change. Commenting to Infin about the system that has been in place all these years by saying he's likely being "nostalgic" is plain silly. The "old" system is NOT "old". It's THE way it's been. You can call the "new" system new but the talk is making it sound like the way it has been from I'm sure way back before I joined a few years ago like that went away quite awhile ago.
The way it has been worked. Yes there were complaints and you can't please everyone but come on now. It was far better than what it is now and I bet that by far a large majority would rather switch back and discuss the issues rather than staying this way and having the large majority filling the discussion with complaints about how much worse this is now.
I'm not feeling "nostalgic" about the "old" way lol. The "old" way isn't old It worked well enough all these years because people figured out that there's not a lot of options you can mess with. I would say that if something else is tried it should be subtle as it's likely that a drastic change will cause far more problems than they are worth.
Peace

Edit: Let's add back to original way and figure it out rather than staying where we are currently at and see that poll result. Foolish to tweak the system from a crappy system rather than one that did work. Remember that people caused the issue!

Re: Poll: Spreading the love .... NOT!!!!!

Pman said:

I totally disagree with Pis comment saying "us taking a poll on the REP system is meaningless. No offense intended PI but if what the majority wants is meaningless because Avery and the mods have that attitude then I and I'm sure many others will leave. I know some of these people and consider some of them my friends and they have not treated me or my suggestions with indifference. It's my opinion and that does not mean we are not still friends Alan Good info on post #114 by the way.
I will thank one of my friend mod (Arg) for stepping up and seeing how repping old inactive members is not an honourable thing to do for reasons already discussed and actually admitting to it. Sounds like there no way of blocking someone from doing it unfortunately.
I'm admitting I breezed through all the posts since my last post since there were so many posts past mine and highly suggest the REP system get set back to original way ASAP as it's beyond obvious the way it is now is no good so we can stop complaining about this current system but just go on to figuring out whether any changes need to be made from the original way. It's kind of a pointless waste of energy to keep it the way it is at the moment.
So, change it back and while we all discuss any potential change Avery and/or the mods need to figure out if VG is reading havoc with other usernames and if he is bugging specific individuals what can be done about . Again, please just change the REP system back though for now for everyone's benefit. It can't be that hard can it?
Dread, there are some issues here that go deeper than you know of as this forum has changed in many ways over the years. I obviously disagree with your suggestion to stay with the way the REP is at this moment as it is causing most of us far more grief than there would be if we went back to the previous REP system first and then figure out if anything needs to change. Commenting to Infin about the system that has been in place all these years by saying he's likely being "nostalgic" is plain silly. The "old" system is NOT "old". It's THE way it's been. You can call the "new" system new but the talk is making it sound like the way it has been from I'm sure way back before I joined a few years ago like that went away quite awhile ago.
The way it has been worked. Yes there were complaints and you can't please everyone but come on now. It was far better than what it is now and I bet that by far a large majority would rather switch back and discuss the issues rather than staying this way and having the large majority filling the discussion with complaints about how much worse this is now.
I'm not feeling "nostalgic" about the "old" way lol. The "old" way isn't old It worked well enough all these years because people figured out that there's not a lot of options you can mess with. I would say that if something else is tried it should be subtle as it's unlikely that a drastic change will cause far more problems than they are worth.
Peace

Edit: Let's add back to original way and figure it out rather than staying where we are currently at and see that poll result.

Click to expand...

Firstly, if I haven't been on the forum as much as you have doesn't take away the right to post what I believe in and that I understand this drama quite well. Secondly, you may believe that the old system is the best way but I believe that its not the best way and its silly to say that it is. The new system was implemented for a reason like there was a reason to implement back in the old days but quite frankly, using a old system with little changes is outdated. Therefore, me commenting saying that IE is nostalgic could apply. Thirdly, it is the OLD system because even if its been here since day one it was implemented doesn't change the fact that its old. Therefore I conclude that it is old.

You may be right about the numbers being out of whack but reverting to the old system will cause problems and is better to change it now instead of changing it later. All of the people who wants to revert is jumping to conclusions without caring about the long term effects. The long term effect being people are going to argue. You need to strike a balance and not go to an unbalanced system.

Therefore having a poll is going to be a poor judgement and should instead be the case of the mods/Avery tweaking the system and not reverted back.