The Minamoto Kobayashi Sugar Rockets Project!

CDBEAM777 · Apr 11, 2017

Ahhhhh..." Lite Fuse and RUN"....That's the ticket !!..." Sugar X "...What's next ?????
Thanx for sharing !! Your attention to detail is pervasive in all your endevours !! CDB

Benm · Apr 11, 2017

diachi said:
Hmmm, we always used the II, III or II-III naming convention.

II-III is a mix of 2+ and 3+ ions yes, but it's still its own specific compound, Fe3O4.

It's rather complex from the chemical point of view.

You get 2 'clear' iron oxygen compounds, FeO (iron-II-oxide, wustite) and Fe2O3 (iron-III-oxide, hematite).

But in reality you often see mixtures of iron oxides that fall somewhere in between those. Fe3O4 exists as a pure substance (magnetite), but "rust" can have a similar iron-to-oxygen ratio yet consist of a mixture of various iron oxide compounds. You also get things like Fe4O5, but often it's just a mix of hematitle, wustite and magnetite, and even particles of pure iron.

I suppose in rocketry when used as a fine powder this doesn't really matter and the overall ratio between iron and oxygen is most important.

paul1598419 · Apr 11, 2017

diachi said:
Hmmm, we always used the II, III or II-III naming convention.

II-III is a mix of 2+ and 3+ ions yes, but it's still its own specific compound, Fe3O4.

As a matter of fact I knew these occur as minerals. I used to be a rock hound back in the early 1960s. I also knew that the cosmetic industry used some of these as coloring agents long ago. So, I must admit that I was a bit hasty when I posted the comment about the red iron oxide.

NightExplorer96 · Apr 11, 2017

Weeeeeeee!

-Alex

lasersbee · Apr 11, 2017

Nice build and launch... although dangerous for someone
with no basic explosives/chemical experience.

IIRC... Potassium Nitrate is also called Saltpeter.

Jerry

paul1598419 · Apr 11, 2017

Yeah, that's what they used to call it. Saltpeter.

Minamoto Kobayashi · Apr 11, 2017

Another big step to improve my sugar rocket: instead to insert the classic 2.5mm Visco fuse
until the end of the hole (about at a 3/4 of the whole compound lenght) and inside a straw,
I put inside the whole hole lenght a quickmatch fuse (5 meters/second !!!).
The normal Visco fuse stops at the beginning of the fast fuse. As You can see in the video,
just before the launch there was the ignition, which triggered the whole compound almost istantly:

After the start part of the rocket head exploded due to a very high pressure inside the tube.
In this shot You can see the exact moment :

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In fact in the sky You can see two chemtrails and not only one

Now I'm preparing the Koba9 with a lot of important improvements, stay tuned! :wave:

paul1598419 · Apr 11, 2017

Very nice, Minamoto. So, the new one you are working on will be designed to endure the added pressures of igniting the whole fuel dump at once? What materiel will you be using this time for the rocket tube? It will be interesting to see how the improvements work over this latest launch.

Benm · Apr 12, 2017

Visco fuse IN a rocket?

I'm sure it can work as your video shows, but it is problematic stuff - especially when it stops burning somewhere in the middle and you can't really tell it's 100% out (well, you can wait a long time).

It can also burn through plastic straws causing premature and irregular ignition, so possibly not ideal to get repeatable results.

Why not use an electric ignition in the middle of the rocket to set off the fast fuse? I'm quite sure that'd be blown out with the fast fuse, or just stay tethered to the ground if fastened.

Hemlock_Mike · Apr 12, 2017

Wait 'till Flamin Pyro sees this.
Although I'm a pyro, he will be of more help.
Nice work.+rep
HM

Minamoto Kobayashi · Apr 13, 2017

Well, the use of the fuses, in my modest opinion, is more traditional and fascinating:
the sparkles, the smoke, the smell, the wait ... these things remember me the holidays of the last days of the year when I was a kid

I'm working with new items and alternative (and more reliable) ways to prepare the powder and the rockets,
as the use of a ball mill and an hydraulic press.
The head will be locked with two pins inside the glue to lock firmly the head to the walls of the rocket.
I'm also working to a 3x bigger rocket, and for this I must create the suitable tools.
I changed also the nozzle deep and the nozzle walls inclination.

Sooner or later I'll find the right combination with the test-mistake-change system

H2Oxide · Apr 14, 2017

I buy all my KNO3 from DudaDiesel. It's not industry rates, but they have pretty good prices and reasonable shipping fees. For pyrotechnics I just use it as is, but for HNO3 synthesis and other various reactions I recrystallize it just to be safe.

Minamoto Kobayashi, have you ever tried APCP, ANCP, or any more-exotic fuels? I'd love to see how they compare to "sugar rocket" fuel.

paul1598419 · Apr 14, 2017

H2Oxide said:
I buy all my KNO3 from DudaDiesel. It's not industry rates, but they have pretty good prices and reasonable shipping fees. For pyrotechnics I just use it as is, but for HNO3 synthesis and other various reactions I recrystallize it just to be safe.

Minamoto Kobayashi, have you ever tried APCP, ANCP, or any more-exotic fuels? I'd love to see how they compare to "sugar rocket" fuel.

The perchlorates are very reactive oxidizing agents and have a particular toxicity to the thyroid gland. For this reason, they are considered contaminates by the EPA. There have been sites in California that had to be cleaned up because of perchlorate contamination of ground water. I'm not sure these chemicals are available to the general public. They are used in solid rocket fuels.

Benm · Apr 14, 2017

I'm not sure any toxicology is the reason for avoiding perchlorates in the first place.

Mixtures using nitrates as the oxider tend to be fairly stable, but with perchlorates this is not the case. Obtaining perchlorates may not be that difficult, but if you cast a perchlorate and fuel mixture into a rocket motor it might go off quite randomly.

A mixture of potassium nitrate and sugar will need a serious amount of heat to set off, but with the perchlorate variety this is not really the case, something like a spark (or even a cosmic ray in theory) could fire up the engine, also when in storage.

H2Oxide · Apr 14, 2017

paul1598419 said:
The perchlorates are very reactive oxidizing agents and have a particular toxicity to the thyroid gland. For this reason, they are considered contaminates by the EPA. There have been sites in California that had to be cleaned up because of perchlorate contamination of ground water. I'm not sure these chemicals are available to the general public. They are used in solid rocket fuels.

I'm aware that they're used in solid rocket fuels, hence why I asked.

IIRC, when burned APCP produces mostly inert compounds such as H2O and CO2 (I think), plus metal oxides obviously, so contamination shouldn't be a problem unless you have a half-ton rocket explode before burning all of its fuel.

As an amateur chemist, I can assure you that the chemicals required to make the actual fuel components of APCP are very easily accessible and relatively cheap (which, if memory serves, is why APCP is used in the Shuttle's SRBs). You can buy them on Amazon. As for the binding agents though, I'm not too sure.

EDIT: according to Wikipedia, the main exhaust gasses from an APCP motor (aside from the metal oxide) are H2O, CO2, and HCl. There must also be ammonia or something in there as well.

paul1598419 · Apr 14, 2017

I didn't say the combustion products of perchlorates were toxic. It is a matter of fact that the perechlorates are toxic according to many sources including the EPA.

The Minamoto Kobayashi Sugar Rockets Project!

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