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Old 07-17-2010, 07:22 AM #1441
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Burning people who don't agree with you is NOT love, and NOT justice, by any half-decent moral construct. On top of that, God is either a god of PEACE or a god of WAR, it has nothing to do with justice or love. The bible clearly says he is both.

They are one mind? [citation needed]. The bible suggests jesus is an earthly manifestation of god, they are one and the same. And saying "this is too hard for us to understand" is no excuse. The bible was written by men, not god. If men wrote it, men can understand it (provided it makes any sense).

As for the different kind of wisdoms, I suppose that is valid... but it sounds to me like you're just making guesses as to what they meant. I don't think there's any language in there that would suggest which kinds of wisdoms they were talking about...


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Old 07-17-2010, 07:33 AM #1442
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Gen 7:2 and so on instructs Noah to bring 7 pairs of animals because 6 pairs of clean animals would be used as sacrifices, and the 7th would be to reproduce and replenish the earth with it's species.

Exodus 33:11 refers to the Lord speaking to Moses through a pillar of cloud (see Exodus 33:9), and the Lord was able to speak to Moses as if face to face through the pillar of cloud which could be visibly seen. Not God's face, nor the full glory of God which no man shall see or he shall die, as mentioned in Exodus 33:20.

Geneses 22:1 "Now it came to pass after these things that God tested Abraham and said to him..." This is not a temptation, rather God examined Abraham's heart, and faith by the test. James 1:13 is correct, God does not temp, nor can be tempted.

1 Corinthians 2:15 - this verse is talking about unbelievers and how they are able to recognize Christian's faults by looking and listening to actions and words, but are not able to evaluate their true nature as spiritual people who have been transformed into children of God, nor can see the true nature of their heart as a Christian.
1 Corinthians 4:5 is referring to the inner motives, thoughts, and attitudes which only God can know, not any man as mentioned in 1 Cor.2:15 which will be judged by God, and God alone.

Exodus 20:13 You shall not murder. This is the killing or slaying of any man in an unlawful way. Seems pretty straight forward, but where many people get confused is the fact that taking of one's life in some circumstances is not a sin. Example in self defense, God does not wish that if we see someone about to kill an innocent person or a family member that we just sit back and say o God said not to kill so I can't kill that person. Not at all.
Exodus chapter 20:22 - 24:11 are set of statues were given by God concerning the Israelites through the old covenant, given of God to Moses to be told to the Israelites. At that time, around 1445 B.C. God had given them the 10 commandments and established the covenant. The old covenant has is no longer in effect, and the new covenant was later established. Those laws pertained to those people only at that time. Sorcery wasn't the only cause to be put to death under that statue, so was bestiality, and and sacrificing to any god other than the one true God. These three acts resulted in the death penalty at that time. It is not a contradiction of the commandment thou shalt not kill, but at that time it was a command from God in order to rid Israel of its evilness, which there was a lot of.
Exodus 32:27 is referring to the time when God had given Moses the 2 tablets with the 10 commandments written on them. As Moses was coming down from the mountain towards the camp, there was a multitude of people who had made a golden calf and were worshiping it. Moses said whoever is on the Lord's side come to me! And only the tribe of Levi gathered with Moses to say there were with the Lord, but everyone else was against the Lord. They had understood that neutrality could not exist at that point in time at that place with open confrontation between good and evil. In this situation they wielded the sword of god's judgment to preserve His honor and glory, then killed those who persisted in idolatry and immorality. Again, this was during the old covenant, pertaining to Moses and those with him. This does not apply to today. If anyone goes out to kill someone worshiping another god today, that would be a sin. At that point in time, those extreme measures were deemed necessary by God.
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Old 07-17-2010, 07:46 AM #1443
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

A single fertilized female replenishing the earth of animals? You no what, I'm not even gonna discuss things like noah's ark from genesis, it's 100% clear that it's bullshit anyway.

And god tested abraham by asking him to kill his son. Again, SHITTY moral standard. My test would have the opposite result-if the guy actually went through with killing his son, throw him in hell. Assuming abraham wasn't really a schizophrenic (because hearing voices telling you to burn your son is a sign of holiness, right?) god is a douche.

" 1 Corinthians 2:15 - this verse is talking about unbelievers and how they are able to recognize Christian's faults by looking and listening to actions and words, but are not able to evaluate their true nature as spiritual people who have been transformed into children of God, nor can see the true nature of their heart as a Christian.
1 Corinthians 4:5 is referring to the inner motives, thoughts, and attitudes which only God can know, not any man as mentioned in 1 Cor.2:15 which will be judged by God, and God alone
."
Oh great, you can only understand if you join the club and of course god doesn't have to justify itself to us.


" God does not wish that if we see someone about to kill an innocent person or a family member that we just sit back and say o God said not to kill so I can't kill that person. Not at all. " Everything jesus said suggested you should hand a robber your wallet, and if someone wanted to kill you you hand yourself over and give them a gun LOL. And which sect of christianity do you follow? Some say thou shalt not kill, some thou shalt not murder. BIG difference.

And how the hell do you know what is deemed necessary by god? There hasn't been a recognized scripture in Christianity since the new testament. You can't possibly say you know what he wants LOL, why would anything have changed since the time of the bible?
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Old 07-17-2010, 07:56 AM #1444
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Well, ALL religions are filled of contradictions ..... if it was not so, they was not called "religion", they was called "logic" .....
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Old 07-17-2010, 08:11 AM #1445
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Burning people who don't agree with you? I'm not sure what exactly you are referring to here. Sodom and Gomorrah?
The God of love loves all, but hates sin. He would want peace for all, and one day there will be peace. But yes God is also Just, why could God not be Just and Love? How does that contradict itself? Biblical war was the result of a sinful and wicked people. In the case of Sodom and Gomorrah there was no war, only fire and brimstone reigned down and utterly destroyed the exceedingly wicked city.

The bible was indeed written by men, but inspired by the Holy Spirit. Here's a little bit of history about the bible - after the OT was written by prophets, priests, kings, and leaders from the nation of Israel, there was 400 years of silence during which God did not divinely inspire any scripture. Then the NT was written by the apostles and their associates, all over the course of 1,500 years with almost 40 writers. 2 Peter 1:20-21 "...knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit." Matthew 24:14 "And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations and then the end will come." Can you explain how the writing of almost 40 different writers, from different parts of the earth, over 1,500 years can all come together without any sort of communication or transit other than by horse and word of mouth and not only that, but the all the books of the bible written by nearly 40 different people does not contain one single verse that contradicts itself? (even though I know you don't agree with that part) How was such unity achieved before we had all this technology unless there is a God who divinely inspired all the writings, and had a master plan to divinely bring them together.

And no I am not making guesses as to what the different wisdoms are, there are several references to the wisdom of man and the wisdom of God in the bible.
Proverbs 14:12 referring to the wisdom of man. Isaiah 29:14 referring to the wisdom of the wise man shall perish. Man's wisdom, not God's. Jeremiah 8:9 "The wise men are ashamed, they are dismayed and taken: lo, they have rejected the word of the LORD; and what wisdom is in them?" Once again man's wisdom they have, not of the Lord since they rejected the Lord and his wisdom. Romans 1:22 "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools"
No the bible makes several references to man's wisdom instead of God's wisdom.
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Old 07-17-2010, 08:25 AM #1446
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

He loves all, but burns the people he loves? He takes some and sticks them in the fires of hell forever? His definition of love is truly f#cked up. And if you think sodomy is a sin then about 95% of high school seniors belong in hell according to god ... Exceedingly wicked LOL. And remember, I've let you get away with the axiom that things in the bible are correct, which I could disprove with some elementary logic... I've only been doing so for argument's sake. So "Inspired by the holy spirit" doesn't mean much to me when the logic system doesn't allow for your kind of "holy spirit".

"but the all the books of the bible written by nearly 40 different people does not contain one single verse that contradicts itself?" Seriously? That argument has basically been destroyed... within the SAME gospel you have examples of contradiction. I don't have to explain how 40 people came together as they didn't, at all. No one "divinely" brought the writings together, some people read each other's work and the works of others and came up with some related materials full of contradicting statements. No divinity there.
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Old 07-17-2010, 08:32 AM #1447
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by ossumguywill View Post
A single fertilized female replenishing the earth of animals? You no what, I'm not even gonna discuss things like noah's ark from genesis, it's 100% clear that it's bullshit anyway.

And god tested abraham by asking him to kill his son. Again, SHITTY moral standard. My test would have the opposite result-if the guy actually went through with killing his son, throw him in hell. Assuming abraham wasn't really a schizophrenic (because hearing voices telling you to burn your son is a sign of holiness, right?) god is a douche.

" 1 Corinthians 2:15 - this verse is talking about unbelievers and how they are able to recognize Christian's faults by looking and listening to actions and words, but are not able to evaluate their true nature as spiritual people who have been transformed into children of God, nor can see the true nature of their heart as a Christian.
1 Corinthians 4:5 is referring to the inner motives, thoughts, and attitudes which only God can know, not any man as mentioned in 1 Cor.2:15 which will be judged by God, and God alone
."
Oh great, you can only understand if you join the club and of course god doesn't have to justify itself to us.


" God does not wish that if we see someone about to kill an innocent person or a family member that we just sit back and say o God said not to kill so I can't kill that person. Not at all. " Everything jesus said suggested you should hand a robber your wallet, and if someone wanted to kill you you hand yourself over and give them a gun LOL. And which sect of christianity do you follow? Some say thou shalt not kill, some thou shalt not murder. BIG difference.

And how the hell do you know what is deemed necessary by god? There hasn't been a recognized scripture in Christianity since the new testament. You can't possibly say you know what he wants LOL, why would anything have changed since the time of the bible?
A single fertilized female, one of each species. Correct. This may seem ridiculous to you, but if God can bring each animal to the Ark and have them do as he wills them to, then what is so hard to believe that if it is also God's plan to replenish the earth with 1 pair of each species that it wouldn't happen? God brought them there, he brought them out of the boat after flood, and he allowed them to reproduce afterworlds.
What other problems do you have with Genesis? I will gladly discuss them with you.
How do I know what is necessary? I incurred it from scripture. If God commanded something, then it must be necessary, otherwise he wouldn't command it, especially if it is something as sever as death. As for the part about there hasn't been any recognized scripture in Christianity since the NT, i'm not sure what you mean by that. And yes of course I know what God wants in some instances, not everything, but for example I know God wants me to love you, not hate you, because it is written in scripture love your neighbor.
And who are you to come up with the better way of testing someone's own heart. Are you God? Do you claim you are above God by saying what you would have done instead is what God should have done? I surely hope you are joking around.
Again, I would like to keep this as a discussion, not an argument. But saying God's moral standards are "sh**y" shows your immaturity , I have no use talking with you if you want to continue this way, because it will get us nowhere. On the other hand, if anyone else wants to actually talk about Christianity seriously, I am more than willing
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Old 07-17-2010, 08:39 AM #1448
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by ossumguywill View Post
He loves all, but burns the people he loves? He takes some and sticks them in the fires of hell forever? His definition of love is truly f#cked up. And if you think sodomy is a sin then about 95% of high school seniors belong in hell according to god ... Exceedingly wicked LOL. And remember, I've let you get away with the axiom that things in the bible are correct, which I could disprove with some elementary logic... I've only been doing so for argument's sake. So "Inspired by the holy spirit" doesn't mean much to me when the logic system doesn't allow for your kind of "holy spirit".

"but the all the books of the bible written by nearly 40 different people does not contain one single verse that contradicts itself?" Seriously? That argument has basically been destroyed... within the SAME gospel you have examples of contradiction. I don't have to explain how 40 people came together as they didn't, at all. No one "divinely" brought the writings together, some people read each other's work and the works of others and came up with some related materials full of contradicting statements. No divinity there.
I'm not sure where you are getting your facts from, but I got some of mine from MacArthur scholar team, who did their research and get their facts from scribes that have recorded history for many centuries.
By the way, what is your elementary logic to disprove that some things in the bible are correct?
Also, Sodom and Gomorrah was full of many other sinful acts, not just sodomy between two men, old men young boys, rape, worshiping idols; an extremely lustful city so much so that when the two angels entered the city a mob of men swarmed the house they were in because they wanted to have *** with the visitors. Very perverse city.
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Old 07-17-2010, 08:41 AM #1449
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

Uhm, aren't some of these contradictory principles, basically, the same used from Inqiusition, in their heretics and witches hunts, for justify anything ?

"An heretic must confess. If an heretic does not confess, then must be tortured til the confession is given (but "tortured" is said as "helped to admit his/her sins" )"

"Anyone that perjure the false in the name of God is automatically an heretic, but inquisitors had the permission from the Pope to "self-adsolve" one each other, if they perjure the false in the name of God, promising safety to heretics for get their confessions ..... "

and so on.

Same as the ordalia process for witches ? ..... when a woman accused to be a witch, was put 10 minutes under water ..... if the woman die, then she was innocent, if instead the woman survives, then it's a proof that the devil helped her to survive, so she was burned alive .....

(different religions have the same types of illogicities, too ..... )
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Old 07-17-2010, 08:45 AM #1450
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Wink Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by ossumguywill View Post
And if you think sodomy is a sin then about 95% of high school seniors belong in hell according to god
Well, safe to say someone's high school experience had a lot of... buttsecks
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Old 07-17-2010, 08:50 AM #1451
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by HIMNL9 View Post
Uhm, aren't some of these contradictory principles, basically, the same used from Inqiusition, in their heretics and witches hunts, for justify anything ?

"An heretic must confess. If an heretic does not confess, then must be tortured til the confession is given (but "tortured" is said as "helped to admit his/her sins" )"

"Anyone that perjure the false in the name of God is automatically an heretic, but inquisitors had the permission from the Pope to "self-adsolve" one each other, if they perjure the false in the name of God, promising safety to heretics for get their confessions ..... "

and so on.

Same as the ordalia process for witches ? ..... when a woman accused to be a witch, was put 10 minutes under water ..... if the woman die, then she was innocent, if instead the woman survives, then it's a proof that the devil helped her to survive, so she was burned alive .....

(different religions have the same types of illogicities, too ..... )
The Inquisition you are referring to was done by Roman Catholics, I am not a Catholic, I am a Pentecostal Christian. We believe in the same God, and in Jesus, but after that there are a lot of differences. I should have specified before in my first post.
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Old 07-17-2010, 08:58 AM #1452
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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WFTM (someday)


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Old 07-17-2010, 04:26 PM #1453
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmak View Post
Well, safe to say someone's high school experience had a lot of... buttsecks

LoL... it's not just "buttsecks".. it's the insertion of anything in too the booty.

you see, in the bible, there are never any direct referrences of anal intercourse happening in saddam. so the word soddamy is describing any thing going in the back door LoL.
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Old 07-17-2010, 05:20 PM #1454
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Sodomy also describes anything involving the mouth, according to Webster.... I think that's what gets most people
"A single fertilized female, one of each species."
A couple problems with this-
The offspring after generation 1 would have severe genetic anomalies, provided they even did reproduce.
The westermarck effect applies to some animals as well, so reproduction would stop after that first female.
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Old 07-17-2010, 05:29 PM #1455
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirillious View Post

On a side note, I wish to keep this 'debate' going, so please don't turn this into a flame thread, but keep it mature. I don't want to see posts get deleted or this thread get locked.
It will ALWAYS degrade into a flame war. As soon as you say that I just cannot understand, you have switched from debating concepts to attacking my ability to reason. When you switch from what it "says" to what it "meant" you have injected your (and other's) opinion as proof. Once you leave the text to find the true meaning, you have left reason and entered into the realm of simply repeating what others have told you or your personal rationalization to explain the "mysteries."

You try to debate using your single text as the basis for finding truth while not only disregarding other texts but also disregarding portions of that same text. In rhetoric that is called an internal inconsistency. If your argument is internally inconsistent it is invalid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chipdouglas View Post
LoL... it's not just "buttsecks".. it's the insertion of anything in too the booty.

you see, in the bible, there are never any direct referrences of anal intercourse happening in saddam. so the word soddamy is describing any thing going in the back door LoL.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ossumguywill View Post
Sodomy also describes anything involving the mouth, according to Webster.... I think that's what gets most people
"A single fertilized female, one of each species."
A couple problems with this-
The offspring after generation 1 would have severe genetic anomalies, provided they even did reproduce.
The westermarck effect applies to some animals as well, so reproduction would stop after that first female.

So I guess using the mouth for buttsecks is right out the window then, eh"

Peace,
dave
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Last edited by daguin; 07-17-2010 at 05:32 PM.
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Old 07-17-2010, 07:55 PM #1456
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

I'd like to request the closing of this thread.

Request to Simon, Things and Dave.
Reason: Thread causes nothing but arguments and harbors hatred towards anyone who believes in a god. All conversations that started decently end the same with clashing opinions. None of it is about lasers or laser related beliefs rather a thread to post silly pictures and stories about something stupid like "raptor jesus" "bible man" and "atheist cat".
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