Old 11-16-2009, 04:48 PM #929
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Well then what good is the dragon?


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Old 11-16-2009, 06:07 PM #930
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by daguin View Post
You are correct. The oft repeated line was never actually delivered by him. I certainly don't remember exactly, "billions and billions" I believe that is a paraphrased "quote" which simply refers to the seemingly significant number of times he uses the word 'billions." It has become "myth" associated with his memory/legend.

IIRC the actual content of line(s) he used would have been something more like;

Billions of (somethings) around/among/were/are, billions of (somethings else)

It was always part of some larger explanation

Peace,
dave

**EDIT**
Just did a quick search. The exact line 'billions and billions" is attributeds to a Johnny Carson skit satarizing Sagan. It became so well recognized that it is now associated with the man himself. It would appear that even Sagan accepted this association as the title of his last book is "Billions & Billions"
Just like Captain Kirk never said the exact phrase "Beam me up, Scotty". He said many things very close to it, bu never that exact phrase. In another great parallel, James Doohan (actor who played Scotty) chose the erroneous quote for the title of his autobiography as well, just like Sagan did with his book.

And Joe Friday never said "Just the facts, ma'am". And Darth Vader never said "Luke, I am your father". And Sherlock Holmes never said "Elementary, my dear Watson". And Apollo 13 astronauts never said "Houston, we have a problem". And no one in "Field of Dreams" ever said "If you build it, they will come".

Amazing how those things happen.
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Old 11-16-2009, 10:17 PM #931
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Good. The last place I'd want to be beamed is "up Scotty."
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Old 11-18-2009, 11:35 AM #932
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

I'm an agnostic... In the material world I'd say I'm an atheist, however no-one can say for absolute defffinate what will happen when you die. I'm also a believer of the multiverse theory and that there are universes out there with laws of physics other than our own. Because of that I lean more towards agnosticism...
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Old 11-18-2009, 07:50 PM #933
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

wat is agnostic?
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Old 11-18-2009, 08:23 PM #934
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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wat is agnostic?
To put it simply, where atheists will say that there is no God and when we die there is nothing, agnostics prefer to say that anything beyond our realm of existence can't be known.

I don't believe in 4000 year old religious texts or "God," however, I'm completely open to the idea of an afterlife (one that doesn't fit religion) or higher forms of existence beyond our own. That makes me more of an agnostic than anything...
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Old 11-24-2009, 05:32 PM #935
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Cant believe this thread is still rolling on LOL. Guess it will never stop.

God is in the heart/soul. You either feel it or you dont. You cant rationalize it, you cannot prove it, it's just there. People with god in their heart see him/her/it everyday in the sunrise, running water, weather, and everything else that gives solace to the heart. It so strong people need to share it, because love is not a singular emotion.

You cant use science, math, or any other methods to prove gods existence because these are created by man. God goes beyond logic. What proves god is faith. Faith cannot be measured with a slide rule, or equation. If the fact that billions of people in the world believe in a higher power is not proof by its self, then you have not learned anything. You dont have to believe in any specific religion, but you have to except the fact that there is higher chance of an existing higher power than not.

Most of the arguments on why God does not exist is based on religion. The Bible, Quran, Talmud, ect were written by men, and mankind is a flawed beast. These men tried to put god in perspective, something you can not do, and why actions based on these books are often mis-interpreted, and distorted. They are just stories, traditions, and rules to guild our lives and nothing more. People who take these literally, and ignorantly use them for their own means is why so many people have died in the name of god. Its not in the name of god, its in the name of ignorance, and man's need to be superior, and domineering. God is honesty, truth, wisdom, acceptance, love, humbleness, kindness ect. Death, destruction, greed, ruthlessness ect is a perversion created by man to fit his own needs and nothing more. Some believe, like myself, motivated by a lower power. So dont base your discussion on Gods existence on religion, because all religions are flawed. God is a universal positive emotion that's in one's heart. You either have it or you dont.
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Old 11-24-2009, 06:21 PM #936
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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You cant use science, math, or any other methods to prove gods existence because God is created by man.
Fixed
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Old 11-24-2009, 06:28 PM #937
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Religion is created by man. You cant create an inner feeling in your heart. Ever try to make someone love you? You cant.
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Old 11-24-2009, 06:37 PM #938
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

I sort of understand, but I just don't feel it. When did you first feel like that, or were you brought up like it?
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Old 11-24-2009, 06:51 PM #939
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

I think what you're feeling is not god. It's the happiness that you get when you know (or at least believe) that god exists.

I would like to be a believer. Honestly. Life is easier and you are happier, but I just cannot force myself. I've investigated as much as I've been able, but the more I see the further I am from believing he does really exist.
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Old 11-24-2009, 06:58 PM #940
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Ive always considered myself a bit of a Druid.
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Old 11-24-2009, 07:00 PM #941
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

I kind of felt the negative pull first, and still do. So in my heart I knew there was evil, 'cause it whispered in my ear everyday. So (in my logic) if there is a devil, then there is God, but I did not really feel it. It hit me one day hunting. We saw nothing for 6 hours, and suddenly this little tweety bird flew out of nowhere, and I blasted it with both barrels of a 12 gage. We all laughed and I walk over and picked up what was left. When I picked it up it happened, like a spike in my heart. I felt ashamed, low, remorseful, pitiful, and actually shed a tear. It really opened my eyes. Since then I've always tried to stay on the path. Every time I stumble, I can feel a force guiding me back. When I see the beauty in the world I get the same feeling. Sounds messed up, but I do believe I've met angels, just like I've met demons. I used to be a Catholic, but saw that was a joke, so dont take me as religious. I know what is right and wrong, and always try to do the right thing. I live by a code of ethics and rules that I've taken from different religions. And it has always helped me.
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Old 11-24-2009, 09:30 PM #942
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

This is a very different thing. you just found the good way. Religions are based on following some good morals, and I support about the 90% of them, but this still doesn't proof nothing to me... xd
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Old 11-29-2009, 02:08 PM #943
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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You cant create an inner feeling in your heart.
Exactly, this "heart" thing... I don't even know where it came from. But the heart does nothing but pump blood. There are no "feelings" "stored" in it. The brain is the organ that processes that stuff.
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Old 11-29-2009, 02:27 PM #944
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

"in your heart" is merely an expression. I also don't know where it came from, but it's just an expression, a way to describe feelings.


Most religion was created to explain away things we did not understand yet.

Since it is red and very hot in the middle of earth, then hell must be there, We have since learned that this is a substance called magma.

Rain was the work of "the gods", however we now know that this is condensation on dust particles, hardly any divine intervention there.

People were burned at the stake once for being in league with the devil, Sorry but that does not constitute rational behavior to me.

Does Immaculate conception, resurrection and walking on water make sense?????
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