Old 11-13-2009, 07:23 PM #881
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

I consider myself an atheist, and to me that means that I do not believe in the existence of any supernatural beings interacting with us in any way. Atheism also to me is the belief that what we observe in this world can always be explained without needing to use supernatural explanations or superstition. In that sense I guess I could also be considered a skeptic. Everything I have observed in my life so far does not rely on there being a supernatural force guiding events, including our own existence - for one example, why our planet is able to host life (since there aren't lifeforms on any of the billions of planets which aren't hosting life, then they can't observe the fact that they are *not* in existence!)

RE writing a journal of my death a few pages back, I think it would be much cooler that, on my deathbed, to (not) die by quantum suicide (look up the "quantum machinegun" experiment). That way, I'd know for sure that certain parts of quantum theory are true (if it isn't, I'd be dead, therefore not be able to know it). The physics of it is considerably odd, but essentially, it says that, if a quantum event happens, somewhere there will be an identical event but where the opposite result happens, therefore if your life depends on that event, you will simultaneously die and not die, in some parallel universe or alternate reality. In all probability you will appear to die to an observer, but because in one of those alternate realities those results were opposite, in that reality you would be alive, and thus still "conscious" there. It may not make much sense but is certainly an interesting thought experiment.


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Old 11-13-2009, 07:33 PM #882
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Meatball View Post
pullbangdead, whats wrong?

Dave, what contradictions? I hear people accuse the Bible of them often, but they can never present me with one. But I know you can, so what do you have for me?
I'll play your game ONE TIME, because I have played it with the best of them and you don't even appear to be close to their knowledge level.
Here are the ground rules:

You allow me to use my copy of the "English Standard Version" (Good News Publishers, 2007) because that is the only version of your bible I have here

You choose whether I am limited to the old testament, the new testament, or if I can use both.

You agree that even one contradiction proves that your text is NOT the infallible word of god.

You agree that a grievous omission constitutes a contradiction. If one version of the truth is fundamentally different than another version of the truth they contradict each other.

Quote:
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Is that what it means to you guys as Atheists? Or does it mean something completely different? What is it?
I don't know. You'll have to ask an atheist.

Peace,
dave
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Old 11-13-2009, 07:40 PM #883
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by ultimatehacker View Post
finally another christian! Im not lonely anymore!!!
Your never alone my friend
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Old 11-13-2009, 07:59 PM #884
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

@Meatball
The search button is your friend
Bible Inconsistencies: Bible Contradictions?
That was one of the first results I got on google. The Bible seems to have a far more self-contradictory plot with far more inconsistent characters than most bad action movies I have watched.
And don't think I base that on this website only (unlike how many seem to base everything on the Bible alone) - I have studied quite a few religions and read most of the Bible myself, finding many contradictions, things which have been disproven since (such as Earth being flat), and similar things which seem to suggest that the stories are not the words of any mighty entity.

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Old 11-13-2009, 08:05 PM #885
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

There are more plot holes in the Bible than MW2!!
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Old 11-13-2009, 10:20 PM #886
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Dave, what contradictions? I hear people accuse the Bible of them often, but they can never present me with one. But I know you can, so what do you have for me?
I already did, look: http://laserpointerforums.com/f57/lp...tml#post608890

Quote:
I have to wonder because to be agnostic, means "no knowledge", or you don't know what to think. To atheist means "No God". So how does one confidently proclaim that he KNOWS that there is no God? If you are a man, and if you say that you know there is no God, aren't you also in a sense saying that you actually know everything?
That's what YOU're saying.

I say "No god".

Read up there ^

Did I say "... therefore I KNOW EVERYTHING"?

Quote:
You all have different ideas and points of view, which I too want to present.
Acceptable. But you can't just share an idea like this: "Hey, I think Pi = 3; I just know it, even if mathematicians have already proved it's like 3.14159265... But I just know it IS three! There's no way it's 3.14159265, that's too complex."

If you want to believe that, then it is indeed wrong. No point of view can make 1 = 2 if it's simply not true.
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Old 11-13-2009, 11:26 PM #887
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Atheists, (anti-theists), are only a collection of people who do not believe in something, so as a group, we do not have tenants or dogmas. Their is no atheist "world-view", it is a lack of belief. I do not believe in evolution either......I accept it. To believe is to no longer question, this would not be the way of science.

BTW, to the Christians here, are you not atheist with regards to Islam, as well as all other religions except your own? How about Zeus, are you an atheist with regards to Greek gods? I am not being funny, it is exactly the same thing.

What is the difference between agnostic and atheist? by all definitions and debates I have heard and studied, there isn't one. The only real difference is the willingness of the person stating his convictions. I do not believe in a god, I cannot know there is no god, just as I cannot know that there is not the proverbial Flying ********* Monster responsible for everything. It could be proven to me there is a god, but it would take testable evidence, but I accept that it is possible, just not very likely.

Science does not prove things, it disproves things. After that you use the best available information at the current-time to make your decisions. Science is great because new information can always change old information, by disproving it. If something were proved, then it could never be disproved, in my mind, this is impossible.

You can call me what you like, I like humanist best, it carries less connotations. But you could also call me a agnostic, bright, even atheist, whatever. Atheism is not a religion. But I do not define my life and morals from a book written by bronze-age people and rewritten several times by men with their own agendas.

Why does the Vatican send missionaries to Africa to tell the natives that condoms cause aids? Why don't they sell off a portion of the Vatican and end the poverty in the same region? This is where I am supposed to base my morals. That guys site on a throne made of gold and tells the world that we have become too materialistic, seriuosly?

In my experience, the best argument when discussing these topics; really read the bible, I don't think it is as "moral" as many who would kill or die for it would believe. Like Dave said, most who hold it up, have not actually read much of it. The god of the bible is not a very nice...entity.

As I have stated before, this is a great topic and I hope that it can remain a peaceful and enlightening thread. There are not many places I can be open about my lack of beliefs, this is very refreshing. There are so many intelligent people here, from all cultures and world-views, I consider you all my family.
How great is it that we can have these discussions accross the globe and time-zones? It helps restore my belief that one day we can all get along, maybe it will start right here at LPF

I extend my respect to all and their beliefs, as long as they do not legislate my life with them.

Just my thoughts
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Old 11-13-2009, 11:53 PM #888
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Default Re: LPF's Religion




Peace,
dave
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Old 11-14-2009, 01:23 AM #889
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

I'm sorry but I can't do this. I'm to tired to deal with all of your comments. If you want proof then I suggest you contact the local Kingdom hall for a bible study. It wont take too much time off your hands and they will be much better at explaining than me.

Please feel free to address them with your concerns. Maybe write a letter and introduce yourself then say you have a few questions.
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Old 11-14-2009, 01:25 AM #890
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Crazy Jay View Post
I'm sorry but I can't do this. I'm to tired to deal with all of your comments. If you want proof then I suggest you contact the local Kingdom hall for a bible study. It wont take too much time off your hands and they will be much better at explaining than me.

Please feel free to address them with your concerns. Maybe write a letter and introduce yourself then say you have a few questions.
It is not us that want the proof that your god is real. We already know our stuff
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Old 11-14-2009, 01:28 AM #891
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikokapo View Post
It is not us that want the proof that your god is real. We already know our stuff
You only know what you want to know. You're afraid to learn something that might change your mind. Whatever
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Old 11-14-2009, 01:58 AM #892
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy Jay View Post
I'm sorry but I can't do this. I'm to tired to deal with all of your comments. If you want proof then I suggest you contact the local Kingdom hall for a bible study. It wont take too much time off your hands and they will be much better at explaining than me.

Please feel free to address them with your concerns. Maybe write a letter and introduce yourself then say you have a few questions.
This is why I stopped debating with them. After they ran out of arguments, they would return with a "more knowledgeable" member to help explain it to me. When that one couldn't keep up, they would return with several. I soon discovered that they weren't there to convince me. They were there trying to prevent the loss of one of their group to rational thought. They were using me to help "educate" (and train) the original member or two who had returned with unanswerable questions.

Belief, faith, and acceptance take almost no effort.

Trying to prove an intangible, now that is hard.

Accept the gift or cheapen it.

Peace,
dave
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Old 11-14-2009, 02:04 AM #893
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by daguin View Post
This is why I stopped debating with them. After they ran out of arguments, they would return with a "more knowledgeable" member to help explain it to me. When that one couldn't keep up, they would return with several. I soon discovered that they weren't there to convince me. They were there trying to prevent the loss of one of their group to rational thought. They were using me to help "educate" (and train) the original member or two who had returned with unanswerable questions.

Belief, faith, and acceptance take almost no effort.

Trying to prove an intangible, now that is hard.

Accept the gift or cheapen it.

Peace,
dave
No it takes a shit load of effort to explain to 4 different people all at once. I don't think you knew what they were doing. You had questions? They couldn't answer? I find that hard to believe.

I have an idea. Would you like to talk to my grandmother? She's a real nice person. She used to be an artist until her stroke caused her eyes to go bad. She can still see in a limited sense but can no longer paint.

You're my friend now right? I think it would be cool to at least introduce you to my grandmother. Send me a PM if you want
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Old 11-14-2009, 02:15 AM #894
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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No it takes a shit load of effort to explain to 4 different people all at once. I don't think you knew what they were doing. You had questions? They couldn't answer? I find that hard to believe.

I have an idea. Would you like to talk to my grandmother? She's a real nice person. She used to be an artist until her stroke caused her eyes to go bad. She can still see in a limited sense but can no longer paint.

You're my friend now right? I think it would be cool to at least introduce you to my grandmother. Send me a PM if you want
I'm betting you didn't even read the other 20 pages this thread has. You'll see that you're not the only one dave (and some of us) had to debate with... and to amazing lengths. When you do read those 20 pages come back and try to give us the same argument.


What does your grandmother have to do with all this? Do you think that because someone tells me "Yes, I've seen UFO's, they're true" I'm just gonna believe it?


Also, have you read the bible COMPLETELY? I really mean 100%.
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Old 11-14-2009, 02:21 AM #895
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy Jay View Post
No it takes a shit load of effort to explain to 4 different people all at once. I don't think you knew what they were doing. You had questions? They couldn't answer? I find that hard to believe.

I have an idea. Would you like to talk to my grandmother? She's a real nice person. She used to be an artist until her stroke caused her eyes to go bad. She can still see in a limited sense but can no longer paint.

You're my friend now right? I think it would be cool to at least introduce you to my grandmother. Send me a PM if you want
You are right. I am probably lying to you simply to challenge your faith.

I have repeatedly tried to show you a way to feel better about what you believe.

As long as you remain on the fence between faith and rational thought, you will be dissatisfied. Choose and end the discord in your heart. The easier choice is faith.

I don't care what you believe. I want you to be happy.

No thank you.

I do not want to speak with a more knowledgeable member of the community.

Peace,
dave
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Old 11-14-2009, 02:36 AM #896
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
As long as you remain on the fence between faith and rational thought, you will be dissatisfied. Choose and end the discord in your heart. The easier choice is faith.
Memorizing that as well.
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