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Old 06-05-2016, 05:25 AM #6801
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
We are each already condemned by our own sins, each one of us committing the sin of disobedience towards God, hence why each one of us will stand and give account unless we accept God's provision of redemption through Jesus.
so the default position upon being born is disobedience against god? it's not possible to be in compliance from the start and thus have no sin to be sent to hell for? isnt simply not believing a sin in and of itself?

I take offence to that concept, as well as punishing all sin infinitely. if every crime had the death penalty then people who stole candy bars would kill witnesses since petty theft is punished the same as murder. the justice sytem would be unjust if this were the case, and cause greater harm than it prevents. by similar logic I condemn god's system of justice.


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Old 06-05-2016, 05:37 AM #6802
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shakenawake View Post
so the default position upon being born is disobedience against god? it's not possible to be in compliance from the start and thus have no sin to be sent to hell for? isnt simply not believing a sin in and of itself?
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Romans 3:10

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shakenawake View Post
by similar logic I condemn god's system of justice.
Good luck..... You know what you'd sound like?
A guilty man 'condemning the Judge' as he's led out of the court room to start his sentence.


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─────────────────────────────────☀
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him
should not perish but have everlasting life.
For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world,

but that the world through Him might be saved.
“He who believes in Him is not condemned;
but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”
(John 3:16-21)
─────────────────────────────────☀
If you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from
the dead, you will be saved.
For it is with your heart that you believe unto righteousness
and it is with your mouth that you confess
your faith and
are saved.
(Romans 10:9-10)
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Old 06-06-2016, 12:25 AM #6803
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by RB astro View Post
Ben, the Bible says:

God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
John 4:24

Also:

God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwells not in temples made with hands;
Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he gives to all life, and breath, and all things;
And has made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
For in him we live, and move, and have our being;
Acts 17:24-28

You see God is not seeking man to worship Him in ornate building made by man.
God searches the heart of man and states that we should worship Him in Spirit and in Truth.
What can man offer God in terms of buildings of worship?

God is seeking people who love and worship him in Truth.
How is it that the underground Christian Church is flourishing in countries of persecution, gathering in secret to Worship Him while the huge ornate churches of yesteryear in the west are empty and are being converted to nightclubs, historical museum sites of architecture and community social halls ?

Jesus said, 'Let the dead bury the dead, you follow me and proclaim the kingdom of God'.

RB

Well, as an atheist i have little regard for what the bible or any other script considerd holy by some people says. This content is not autmatically truth for me, which would also be a bit problematic as scriptures considered holy by various people contradict eachother.

This does not change what i have observed though: Many of the great historical structures built by mankind had a religious function.

It seems to be omnipresent in all religion, from the egyptians to the greeks, romans, maya, aztek, christians, muslims and jews.

Apparently many religious people are willing to spend considerable effort and money on building landmarks.

Another thing people historically spent a lot on is entertainment: you'll find things like amphitheatres, sports arena's and even horse racing venues dotted around the world.

From underground religious movements usually very little remains. We know for example that there was an underground christian movement during the roman empire, but that knowledge largely comes from documents written during that time - and many of that referring to efforts to destroy those movements.
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Old 06-06-2016, 12:43 AM #6804
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by RB astro View Post
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Romans 3:10



Good luck..... You know what you'd sound like?
A guilty man 'condemning the Judge' as he's led out of the court room to start his sentence.


not one righteous huh. so jesus wasnt the perfect sacrifice then

what makes me sound guilty? the fact that I take offence to being assigned a position of sin and deserving of eternal torture by default? I'm out of line calling into question that type of justice am I? so be it. I maintain that I am righteous without god, and that being with god does not make one righteous. sounds like kangaroo court

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Old 06-06-2016, 02:23 AM #6805
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benm View Post
Well, as an atheist i have little regard for what the bible or any other script considerd holy by some people says.
You're still part of the human race though Ben, and God transcends above all cultures, nationalities and 'religions'.
No one is 'immune' or exempt.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Shakenawake View Post
not one righteous huh. so jesus wasnt the perfect sacrifice then
I think you're much more intelligent than that Shaken and basically resorted to clutching at straws with that comment.
The Bible speaking of Jesus:
For he hath made Him (Jesus) to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him.
2 Corinthians 5:21

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shakenawake View Post
what makes me sound guilty? the fact that I take offence to being assigned a position of sin and deserving of eternal torture by default? I'm out of line calling into question that type of justice am I? so be it. I maintain that I am righteous without god, and that being with god does not make one righteous
Nothing 'makes you sound guilty' per se, don't think I'm implying that I'm a more moral person than you or that I deserve salvation but you don't.
Each one of us is guilty, each one of us has committed sins, some more serious sins, some less serious.
The only reason a person is condemned to hell is because they have rejected God's Grace and gift of salvation through Jesus Christ, His only provision for salvation.

That in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Ephesians 2:9

RB

__________________
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─────────────────────────────────☀
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him
should not perish but have everlasting life.
For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world,

but that the world through Him might be saved.
“He who believes in Him is not condemned;
but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”
(John 3:16-21)
─────────────────────────────────☀
If you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from
the dead, you will be saved.
For it is with your heart that you believe unto righteousness
and it is with your mouth that you confess
your faith and
are saved.
(Romans 10:9-10)
─────────────────────────────────☀
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Old 06-06-2016, 02:59 AM #6806
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

oh ok thanks. so to summarize:

1. Every human born is in an initial state of rebellion and disobedience to god, deserving of hell by default unless they accept the violent death of an innocent 2000 years ago as payment for their wrong doing, by his stripes we are healed. it's not possible to not sin for any human born.

2. jesus was a human born

3. none of #1 applies to jesus despite #2.
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501B by Blord osr@m PL520 520nm 95mW @.3A g lens
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501B HL63133DG 638nm 210mW @.3A g lens
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PL660 from Laserbtb 660nm 1020mW

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Old 06-06-2016, 09:48 AM #6807
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shakenawake View Post
oh ok thanks. so to summarize:

1. Every human born is in an initial state of rebellion and disobedience to god, deserving of hell by default unless they accept the violent death of an innocent 2000 years ago as payment for their wrong doing, by his stripes we are healed. it's not possible to not sin for any human born.

2. jesus was a human born

3. none of #1 applies to jesus despite #2.
Ok Shaken, with all due respect, I don't mean this to sound condescending, you know I wouldn't do that but please answer me this:

What sort of Christian were you before you became an atheist?
What type of church were you part of?

The fact that you are summarising what I've said, correctly, but still don't grasp the fact that, yes, Jesus was born a human but from a virgin so He was born sinless and then lived a sinless life, still evades you, worries me.

I have been saying the following statement in these discussions all along:

Jesus was God, in the flesh.
He was the Son of God, the second person in the trinity.
Father, Son and Holy Spirit, the three are one.

The Bible says:
For there are three that bear witness in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit: and these three are one.
1 John 5:7 KJV

and again:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
John 1:1-3 KJV.

Jesus was the one who created the Universe, He was with God and was God Himself.

He became human, so He was sinless because He was God from the beginning.
God the Father was still on the Throne ruling the universe while Jesus the Son came down to earth as a human, suffered and died on the cross for our sins and rose again on the third day, just as the scriptures said.
As a human, he was not omnipresent at that time like God the Father in Heaven is, because He took on a human body.
But at the same time God the Father was still on the Throne and in control as always.

When Jesus finally ascended into Heaven, He gave The Holy Spirit, the third person of the Trinity, to dwell now in every Christian which has truly believed on the name of Jesus.

Does that sound familiar to you?

RB
__________________
Andrew (RB)

─────────────────────────────────☀
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him
should not perish but have everlasting life.
For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world,

but that the world through Him might be saved.
“He who believes in Him is not condemned;
but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”
(John 3:16-21)
─────────────────────────────────☀
If you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from
the dead, you will be saved.
For it is with your heart that you believe unto righteousness
and it is with your mouth that you confess
your faith and
are saved.
(Romans 10:9-10)
─────────────────────────────────☀

Last edited by RB astro; 06-06-2016 at 09:50 AM.
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Old 06-06-2016, 12:11 PM #6808
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
Then in a universe where abiogenesis occurs and sentience arises sometime later, when/how does good/evil & right/wrong come into existence.

Jesus Christ was the fulfillment of the old testament law and the sacrificial system, God would not ask this of me. Also I'm curious as to what your intentions are for asking this question.

So they don't have to be objectively wrong to be subjectively wrong? Yes I agree.

Relax you're not being ignored. That post has at least 10 questions in it, several why questions with potentially long answers, no answer, or with more questions built into them, and they are not directly asked to anyone. Maybe condense it down a bit here, we all have limited time, and seek out some answers on your own.
Ii's seems obvious to me and others I wasn't talking about that post Duke. I was referring to the replies I wrote weeks ago and other Alan, nobody including yourself ever replied. And I already said I was going to shorten my replies. So yes they were being ignored. I'm as busy as you all are if not more so so I understand patience. But if you would rather only discuss these things with Shakenwake and Cyparagon, thats fine.
I am here to also learn not just argue. And i have learned a lot for Alan and RB astro.

To answer RB's question although not to me Id like to reply. I grew up Catholic and was active in the church as an alterboy CCD classes ext. I left the catholic church around 15 years old and attended a Baptist school until I graduated 10th grade in which I decided organized religions wasn't for me. I spent my 30's as a new ager. A spritual man. Then at 39 I sold my home, business and all my possesions to seek out God and expand upon my spirtuality on my own living in Peru. It was in a small Shipibo indian village in the Amazon. I spent 18 months there and did honest souls searching. I learned why it is I believed what I did and it was not justified. I returned with the answers I sought but not in a way I would have ever guessed. I became an agnostic atheist. I don't claim I KNOW god doesn't exist i just feel there isn't justification for me to believe in any God and that a god existing is highly highly un-likely. It wasn't over night it was a couple year process but thats my background. I prayed all the time asking to please feel Gods presence in my life. I never felt his presence. So say what ever you want, I know how hard I seeked a relationship with the Lord. I feel i searched harder than most. I sold everything I owned in search foe the truth in which i feel I found in non belief. Some days I miss my spirituality but for me truth is more important than feeling good.
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Old 06-06-2016, 06:33 PM #6809
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by olympus mons View Post
Ii's seems obvious to me and others I wasn't talking about that post Duke. I was referring to the replies I wrote weeks ago all besides Alan but nobody including yourself ever replied. And I already said I was going to shorten my replies. So yes they were being ignored. I'm as busy as you all are if not more so so I understand patience. But if you would rather only discuss these things with Shakenwake and Cyparagon, thats fine. Ill stop bothering writing replies.
I am here to also learn not just argue. And i have learned a lot for Alan and RB astro.

To answer RB's question although not to me Id likew to reply. I grew up Catholic and was active in the church as an alterboy CCD classes ext. I left the catholic church around 15 years old and attended a Baptist school which is when I decided orgabized religions wasn't for me. I spent my 30's as a new ager. The at 39 sold my home, buisness and possesions to seek out God and spirtuality on my own living in Peru in a samll village inm the Amazon. I sepnt 18 months there and did honest souls searching. I returned with the answers I sought but becane an agnostic atheist. I don't claim I KNOW god doesnt exist i just feel there isn't justification for me to believe in any God. It was a couple year process but thats my background. I prayed all the time asking to please feel Gods presence. I never felt his presence. So say what ever the hell you wan't Duke. I feel i searched harder than most. I sold everything I owned in search foe the truth in which i feel I found in non belief. Some days I miss my spirituality but for me truth is more important than feeling good.
wow. pretty intense. new ager huh. I have fun with them too. if you want a good laugh I recommend AwakenWithJP's youtube channel



to answer RB

I was sort of a member of "the way international"

The Way International | Home

but pretty much non-denominational.

even if I still believed, we'd still have disagreements. when I believed, I did not believe that jesus was god, but ONLY his son.

here are some of the reasons I thought this:

1. I believed the catholic church made up the trinity and idea that jesus was god at the first council of nicaea (actually, i still believe this)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea

2. the dove landed on christ after his baptism and a voice boomed, "this is my beloved son, in whom I am well pleased" note that the voice didnt say, "this is my son, as well as an avatar of me, and I am pleased with myself"

3. jesus said in Luke 22:42 "yet not my will, but yours be done" this statement makes no sense if god is jesus, as their wills would be the same.

4. jesus spent considerable time praying to god, including when he did so while writing in the sand regarding the adultress. if he was god I wouldnt imagine him needing to pray to himself

5. jesus at one point says I and my father are one, but with a concordance my mother showed me how he was just reffering to his purpose being one with god, as he also says we can become one with god

6. the sacrifice isnt a sacrifice if you can raise yourself from the dead. I'm guessing god is impossible to kill, so if jesus was god, no sacrifice occurred, he wasnt really dead. if you can raise yourself from the dead, you aren't dead.

now I think it was all fabricated by men, and not ones inspired by god either.

I don't think killing an innocent animal or person makes up for your sins, I think it adds another one.

it also doesnt make sense to me that one person, perfect or not, being dead three days days, could make up for all sin ever for eternity for a potentially unlimited amount of people. why doesnt every person need a seperate messiah to be killed for them? I mean back in the day, every time you sinned you had to sacrifice another animal. why is christ's death like a rain check for all future sins as well? you don't have to answer that, I actually dont care about the answer too much

you baffle me with your opinion that humans do not have original sin from adam, but are somehow born in sin anyway. I don't understand why having no penis in the vagina a child comes out of would qualify them as sinless. what's the connection? does that make the new mexico whiptail lizard sinless as well since it can reproduces a***ually? god killed most of em in the flood anyway...damn sinning animals. (either that or god is totally unconcerned with non-human life, take your pick)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthenogenesis

speaking of the holy spirit, arent people with it supposed to be able to do miracle healing, cast out demons, etc? didnt christ say if you have faith as small as a mustard seed you can tell a mountain to cast itself into the sea and it will? (Mattew 21:21) post a youtube video of you doing these things and maybe I'll believe
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Old 06-07-2016, 12:00 AM #6810
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by RB astro View Post
You're still part of the human race though Ben, and God transcends above all cultures, nationalities and 'religions'.
No one is 'immune' or exempt.
That is where most atheists would start to disagree really.

Sometimes religious people (and i mean sometimes, and not ALL religious people) state that you would burn in hell or suffer some other nasty afterlife for your lack of believes.

I suppose this is meant to be offensive, but it really is a moot threat. Atheists do not believe in hell (in the biblical sense) so the prospect of it is not frightening at all. Neither is the prospect of heaven attractive as both are considered to be non-existing.

Perhaps it works a bit like voodoo: it can only hurt (or benefit?) you when you actually believe in it. I have no doubt people can feel good after prayer, attending some ceremony, or doing something to promote their faith. I also believe people can feel genuiny bad for working on a sunday (or saturday), eating pork, drinking water during daytime this time of year, missing a scheduled prayer time and what not.

None of these observations make gods real, they just say something about people.

You should not confuse it with a general lack of morals though: The vast majority of atheists believe you should not hurt others by stealing from them, injuring or killing them etcetera. In some cases this may contradict certain religious views that, for example, justify attacking gay people, those of different religion etc, which would not be acceptable to most atheists under any circumstance.
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Old 06-07-2016, 08:40 AM #6811
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Guys, I'm sorry, I'm going to be away for a day or two.
My mum's been taken to hospital due to a bad fall at home.
My wife and sons are at the hospital and I'll be going there soon.
Don't know how bad it is.

Just wanted to let you guys know that I'll be away for a while till we know what the situation is with her.

Apologies and I'll catch up when I'm back online here.

RB
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For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him
should not perish but have everlasting life.
For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world,

but that the world through Him might be saved.
“He who believes in Him is not condemned;
but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”
(John 3:16-21)
─────────────────────────────────☀
If you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from
the dead, you will be saved.
For it is with your heart that you believe unto righteousness
and it is with your mouth that you confess
your faith and
are saved.
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Old 06-08-2016, 12:33 AM #6812
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Sorry to hear that - i hope you mum will be okay!
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Old 06-08-2016, 12:36 AM #6813
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

yikes hope she's ok. sick kiddos recently too. that's no fun. hope it's minor not major problems
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Old 06-10-2016, 09:53 AM #6814
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

I will say this. I know many people have felt this thread was a waste of time and should have been closed long ago. But I hope I am not the only person that has noticed positive changes in just about everyone here. My position has not changed obviously but I have learned a great deal and I do see some parts of Christianity in a better light as well as greater understanding.
RBastro, atheist or not I strive to attain your level of patient love and peace.
Alan, I am often impressed that you remain faithful in light of the very serious and difficult struggles that is your daily life. That takes a very strong constitution.

Although you may disagree the two of you but I don't feel religion is why you have these admirable qualities. I think you are simply just great people that happen to hold certain beliefs.

Cheers fellas
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Old 06-10-2016, 02:10 PM #6815
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by olympus mons View Post
I will say this. I know many people have felt this thread was a waste of time and should have been closed long ago. But I hope I am not the only person that has noticed positive changes in just about everyone here. My position has not changed obviously but I have learned a great deal and I do see some parts of Christianity in a better light as well as greater understanding.
RBastro, atheist or not I strive to attain your level of patient love and peace.
Alan, I am often impressed that you remain faithful in light of the very serious and difficult struggles that is your daily life. That takes a very strong constitution.

Although you may disagree the two of you but I don't feel religion is why you have these admirable qualities. I think you are simply just great people that happen to hold certain beliefs.

Cheers fellas
Thanks very much Olympus, I don't know how much longer I will be able to continue to post here. I am in so much pain much of the time that I can't think clearly. I am worried about even living to my 55th birthday February 14th, my heart and liver are failing, my legs are swollen and hurt so much and now I can only walk a few feet with a cane. I have no insurance and can't afford treatment. I have a friend who checks on us daily (myself and my mother, 92 later this year if we live that long) he texts me everyday, if I don't answer he will text me again, if I don't answer he will call, if I don't answer he will drive over here. My friend is 84 I don't know how long he will be around, his wife passed away recently, but he has children that live here.

When I was 18 someone told me my mother would outlive me, as I said she will be 92 this year in October. My mother was born in 1924, my father was born in 1918, he passed away in 1992, my father was in the army and later the army airforce that later became the Air Force, he served 21 years. He met my mother at a public swimming pool in San Antonio Texas and they got married in late 1941 just before the U.S. entered the war. My brother and sister are older than me, my mother traveled to Europe with my brother aboard the famous ocean liner USS United States when it was new, my sister was born in post WW2 France. My parents were a little old to be having a child when I accidentally came along in February 1962, I was named Alan after Alan Shepard the second man in space and was born at Fairchild AFB in Spokane Washington. I never served in the military, they wouldn't have taken me anyway because of my eyesight, back then they couldn't fix your eyes with surgery, however when I was 6 years old I learned I would be drafted when I turned 18, those who are old enough will remember watching the Vietnam war on TV, I was terrified until Jimmy Carter became president. My brother when he was in high school did 2 years of ROTC and when he turned 18 in 1970 went to enlist (my mother was terrified) and they wouldn't take him due to his eyesight, he tried all the armed forces and none would take him, he was very disappointed.

Something else happened in 1970 that changed my thinking and my beliefs. My family had attended church for some years but I didn't really like it and wasn't so interested. My parents got divorced that year, I briefly told this before but I will repeat it again. When my father moved out he rented a nice 2 bedroom apartment for $60 a month (a normal price at that time), it was a huge 3 floor mansion that had once been a single family home that had been converted into apartments. There was a woman who owned the place and lived in the front first floor apartment, I don't know how she came to own the place. There were 5 apartments, the woman, and there was a couple who were gone most of the time, a man who was a salesman who traveled all over the state and wasn't there much, my fathers apartment, and one more available. When my father moved out I went to spend the weekends with him for a few months. When he rented this place it was quite a good deal at $60 a month, he stayed just less than 2 months, the next place he payed the same price and it wasn't as nice. I think I spent 5 or 6 weekends there, when he rented he was told about the problems with the house and he decided to rent anyway. When this place was converted to apartments it wasn't perfect, his apartment was mostly behind one door, kitchen, living room, bedroom, but you had to go across the hall for the restroom, this was not shared with anyone, just separate, and his second bedroom was on THE 3rd FLOOR. The 3rd floor was just that bedroom where he just stored some stuff and there were two other rooms, one was empty and the other one was used for storage and had lots of stuff in it. My fathers apartment was directly under these two rooms.

When you are 8 years old you don't think about death and dying, I didn't even know enough to be afraid, I found it interesting, if I entered a house like that today I would be out of there real quick. When I learned that ghosts are real and that there really is an afterlife, that's what got me more interested in religion, I thought maybe there really is something to this.

I am unable to finish this in more detail I am having too much pain. I am going to make a list of people to notify when I pass away, I have been thinking of doing that for at least a year and haven't got around to it, but I think I better get to it soon. I will try to make sure a senior vet here will get an email so they can inform the rest of you when I am gone. My mother wants to be 101, no way I can make it and neither will she.

Alan

Edit: I will try to finish explaining the haunted house. Don't disregard all eyewitness testimony just because it can't be proven, there's too much to just explain away. It was mainly the third floor in this house that was the problem, you could almost always hear someone walking around up there, the stairs to the third floor were in the back of the house just outside the door to my fathers apartment. It would even move and rearrange things frequently, if you went up there and searched for it you could find a small very cold spot. This thing would come down to the second floor in the middle of the night and knock on the doors.

In the following years I also had some strange experiences with other children using a OiuJa board, I would never use one today, I think they can be dangerous. There is no doubt in my mind that they can be used to talk to spirits and even demons, and how does the Charlie Charlie game work? With a OuiJa board you can be with some children using it and ask them questions that none of those children could know and get the correct answers. You can have one person that speaks a different language that no one touching the board speaks and they can ask the questions in that language and get answers in that language. Someone try to explain that! And how do you explain EVP? There are also photos and video of apparitions although they are far less common. I have no doubt in my mind there is an afterlife and that some stay here walking among us.
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Old 06-14-2016, 09:04 PM #6816
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Cyparagon View Post
Good question. I'd suppose it came into existence when we decided it should.
Would you agree with merriam-webster regarding the words objective and subjective.

Objective: existing outside of the mind : existing in the real world

Subjective: relating to the way a person experiences things in his or her own mind


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyparagon View Post
How can you know that? How can you know the mind of god? Surely you must believe god's will is different from your own in some ways. Surely you must believe he has a greater mysterious plan that you may not be able to comprehend. Surely you can think of other instances where god's demands were not understood or agreed with, but followed anyway.

If he did demand this of you, what would you do?
There's a nice collection of books I can refer too to learn about god. The hypothetical you're proposing doesn't make sense. Can you biblically and reasonably support that god would ask this of me.
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