Old 08-14-2009, 12:41 PM #657
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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I posit that reading the text of the holy book for oneself is the only way to truly know what you believe
Understandable, I agree, I read the Bible everyday here is what I'm studying now
not exactly the most glam of all chapters

2 Chronicles 32:16 NIV as of this morning.

yes, I did just "google it up" I tried to copy and paste, but alas file was much to large to post in that manner.

No worries Dave-o, I'm just posting in a manner that facilitates to those who feel the way I do about the subject manner... not trying to load a bus to bring to the church OK!

Comments noted have a good day. Jander6442


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Old 08-14-2009, 05:04 PM #658
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by /b/ View Post
When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15:19- 24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homo***uality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
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Old 08-14-2009, 06:26 PM #659
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Still don't hear one. Nobody hear actually knows of contradiction? One that they've, and countered with another part of the Bible?
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Old 08-14-2009, 06:43 PM #660
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Meatball View Post
Still don't hear one. Nobody hear actually knows of contradiction? One that they've, and countered with another part of the Bible?
Contradiction, you say?

Bible says that males with long head hair should be killed.

"Jesus" had long hair.

There you go

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Old 08-14-2009, 08:30 PM #661
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

also, it isn't necessarily the bible that is contradictory. it is the way it is interpreted and used for convenience. God is so far removed from organized religion, it should be a crime!
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Old 08-14-2009, 08:35 PM #662
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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also, it isn't necessarily the bible that is contradictory. it is the way it is interpreted and used for convenience. a local preacher hear peddles his thoughts and literally makes up stories trying to show how he is of the people he preaches to. He is a former drug addict, now he makes millions and lives in multi million dollar house at the beach. it's literally a case of rags to riches, not i was lost now i'm found.


Dont you dare talk about l ron hubbard that way!!


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Old 08-14-2009, 08:40 PM #663
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

@gordon....haha

i deleted the stuff that gordon is quoting. I feel that way still, i just realized thought it might be a little to "bashing". and no it is not L Ron Hubbard. But i don't want to post who, he has a big following and i don't want any drama.
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Old 08-14-2009, 08:58 PM #664
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by chipdouglas View Post
@gordon....haha

i deleted the stuff that gordon is quoting. I feel that way still, i just realized thought it might be a little to "bashing". and no it is not L Ron Hubbard. But i don't want to post who, he has a big following and i don't want any drama.
The pope?

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Old 08-15-2009, 07:16 PM #665
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

jander6442, your lack of appreciation for sarcasm is disturbing... And you seem to have a fetish for "kicking nuts", something I must admit is not among my preferred methods of passing time, although if it makes you happy, by all means, have fun... I can't answer your pertinent questions without feeling embarassed, because you see, as atheists, we are forbidden to give to charity or to help others in need; perhaps that is the source of my frustrations and the cause of my unhealthy obsession with the torture of christians -- for which I deeply appologize. Maybe if you post more of the enlightening material concerning the salvation of our souls I will manage to find the light at the end of the long dark tunnel of unfaith, and finally let Jesus "take control of every area of my life" -- gee-whiz, maybe he can help with cleaning? And then there's all that painting to be done, he sure could lend a hand! Woo-hoo!

Quote:
Originally Posted by chipdouglas View Post
this thread is really something.(...) it's funny seeing all the back and forth.
Well hello there! I really like your spirit, but I hope you've got your asbestos pants handy, the ride is sometimes rough around here, although as you said yourself, quite funny! Welcome!

nikokapo, be careful with that, you know that reading /b/ will melt your brain, and it usually stings when that happens :-P Although one has to admit those quotes are hilarious and very much to the point. Anyone care to pick one at random and answer it from their side?

As to the bible-contradictions topic, it's hard to argue when you just know the answer is going to be circular, there's just no fun in that... but maybe someone dares to try?
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Old 08-15-2009, 07:46 PM #666
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

I like the part in the bible where god tells abraham to kill his son if he really believes in god, and when he was about to slit that kids throat and burn him.. god was all like.

J/K i was just testing ya.



genesis 22:sumthin
it really says that.


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I like your "asbestos pants" comment
i lol'd
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Old 08-15-2009, 09:19 PM #667
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

I can't believe nikokapo just brought in /b/ to a discussion on religion. :x
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Old 08-17-2009, 09:16 PM #668
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by GoRdOn_B View Post
I like the part in the bible where god tells abraham to kill his son if he really believes in god, and when he was about to slit that kids throat and burn him.. god was all like.
J/K i was just testing ya.
Yes, it's in Gen 22:1-19. But you know what the really depressing part is? There are pages after long pages written on the subject, by very intelligent people nonetheless, trying to explain how night is day, blue is red and that passage actually shows how loving and good the god is... I think it's sad that, even though the text itself is short and quite clear in meaning, our "simple" morality cannot accept it as such, because it creates a contradiction with the preconceived image of what a god should behave like. So our brains come up with wild, intricate explanations (with poor or no basis on the text) of why the god did what it did.

Of course, one could rationalize anything and everything, given enough time and effort, even the most heinous crimes... That's why we have rules like Occam's Razor, so we can choose the most likely explanation from the infinity of possibilities that our minds can come up with -- and that's why facts and evidence are important, they become the only way of separating imagination from reality.

In fact, the reason for such a passage becomes evident when you put it in context: it's all about obedience. This is actually a main theme in most religions, that people should obey gods without as much as a peep! You may notice that Abraham never asks his God why, he simply does it, mindlessly, mechanically, because he just "knows" it's right... And why do religions put so much emphasis on that? Well, in the real world, no god ever "speaks" to normal people -- and when they do, those people usually get sent on vacation in a nice, cozy room with padded walls. In the real life, the will of the gods comes through interpreters -- priests of all shapes and sizes. Therefore, it is the will of the priests that will need to be obeyed without question... Guess where that leads us? Yeah, just watch some of those delightful news :-/ Sad, I tell you...
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Old 08-17-2009, 11:21 PM #669
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Yes, it's in Gen 22:1-19. But you know what the really depressing part is? There are pages after long pages written on the subject, by very intelligent people nonetheless, trying to explain how night is day, blue is red and that passage actually shows how loving and good the god is... I think it's sad that, even though the text itself is short and quite clear in meaning, our "simple" morality cannot accept it as such, because it creates a contradiction with the preconceived image of what a god should behave like. So our brains come up with wild, intricate explanations (with poor or no basis on the text) of why the god did what it did.



Peace,
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Old 08-17-2009, 11:40 PM #670
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Do you think it would be safe to say that god made a deal with the devil in the book of Job?
*(Do whatever you wish to him.. he will still love me) kinda thing.
Or do you think that was just a friendly bet?
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Old 08-18-2009, 04:02 AM #671
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Contradiction, you say?

Bible says that males with long head hair should be killed.

"Jesus" had long hair.

There you go

Niko! Thank you for taking me up on my challenge!

In Leviticus, (A book which goes through, and explains the Jewish law that God gave to the Israelites) it is said that it is shameful for a man to have long hair, and it is the same for a woman who has short hair.

Now, since Jews had their faith politically tied in with the law (this lack of separation of church and state is now known to be a bad thing), anything deemed unlawful by Jewish law became punishable under societies' law. The typical punishment for an ordinary sin was usually some form of humiliation, but every now and then, extreme violators would be executed since the official punishment for sin is death. It sent a message to everyone else as well. But for something like having long hair, death was probably not a very usual punishment at all.

With Jesus,

first of all, where is your proof that Jesus had long hair? Where is your proof that he was white? Or black? The Bible, nor any other historical document describes the appearance of Jesus.

BUT for your sake, lets pretend that we know Jesus had LONG hair. Lets say... half a meter long!

It wouldn't matter. Just from the time period alone, it could be argued that many men in Jesus' time and place had long hair. Jesus lived ~700-800 years after Leviticus was recorded. That's a long time.

The Pharisees during Jesus' time were known to be notorious for being strict about the law. They believed that "works" is what got a man into heaven. Since old testament scripture was not available or even readable by the ordinary Jew, it was the Pharisees job to make the word of God be known. But they would often twist the law, and change it to fit their own personal agendas. (Just like many liberals... err, I mean.. politicians do today)

But when Jesus came, and died for us, he wiped away the need for Jewish law as the way to heaven. He cleared the path for ANYONE who so chose to believe in what he did, and follow him to be able to be saved! THAT is what is important, and is what pertains to US. That's what the Bible's message is!

The Jewish law of old is not what matters to us, it mattered to the Jews of old because of their culture.

So even IF Jesus is discovered to have had long hair, the message of the Bible once again, never changes. It once again, is proved flawless.

Any other takers?

How about something more... theological? Philosophical?

Tyler
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Old 08-18-2009, 04:11 AM #672
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by mgc8 View Post
Yes, it's in Gen 22:1-19. But you know what the really depressing part is? There are pages after long pages written on the subject, by very intelligent people nonetheless, trying to explain how night is day, blue is red and that passage actually shows how loving and good the god is... I think it's sad that, even though the text itself is short and quite clear in meaning, our "simple" morality cannot accept it as such, because it creates a contradiction with the preconceived image of what a god should behave like. So our brains come up with wild, intricate explanations (with poor or no basis on the text) of why the god did what it did.

Of course, one could rationalize anything and everything, given enough time and effort, even the most heinous crimes... That's why we have rules like Occam's Razor, so we can choose the most likely explanation from the infinity of possibilities that our minds can come up with -- and that's why facts and evidence are important, they become the only way of separating imagination from reality.

In fact, the reason for such a passage becomes evident when you put it in context: it's all about obedience. This is actually a main theme in most religions, that people should obey gods without as much as a peep! You may notice that Abraham never asks his God why, he simply does it, mindlessly, mechanically, because he just "knows" it's right... And why do religions put so much emphasis on that? Well, in the real world, no god ever "speaks" to normal people -- and when they do, those people usually get sent on vacation in a nice, cozy room with padded walls. In the real life, the will of the gods comes through interpreters -- priests of all shapes and sizes. Therefore, it is the will of the priests that will need to be obeyed without question... Guess where that leads us? Yeah, just watch some of those delightful news :-/ Sad, I tell you...
You have to keep in Mind that at that time (whether you believe it or not), God spoke to Abraham. Abe heard Gods voice just like we would hear someone next to us. It was only this way BEFORE Jesus came to Earth. Then there was a 400 year period where God was quiet, and then Jesus was Born, who eventually sent something called the Holy Spirit down to us after he left. You know, the trinity, Father, Son, HOLY SPIRIT. The Holy Spirit is what is here on Earth, right now, helping people figure out whats right and wrong. Priests.... ya.. don't follow them. They are human too... when the Holy Spirit is not. Big difference. Ask a Catholic of priests... I'm Protestant, I wouldn't know about priests.

I see what you mean about obedience though, but that's where you have to remember that God used to speak quite directly to mankind, when he doesn't anymore.

Tyler
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