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Old 04-04-2016, 01:28 AM #6641
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Razako View Post

Reminds me of this weird youtube intervi...
Thanks for this
Around 44:00 he makes some good points about consciousness
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teej View Post
Mainstream ignorance is more full of unproved ideas, ...
...
Clearly the expert


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Old 04-04-2016, 02:41 AM #6642
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Alaskan View Post
...individuals who have enough vision to see beyond what has been proved.
Yes. And these people are called research scientists if they use science to investigate. Otherwise, they're called fruit buckets.
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Old 04-04-2016, 03:21 AM #6643
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Ha, there have been far too many theorists and research scientists who were called quacks who simply were just too far ahead of accepted science for the core to understand they were right, so this falls flat with me. Cyp., I'm surprised you don't know this. I could give you a long list to fill a lot of space with examples, but I'm not going to go looking for that, you can though.

For those interested in the study of consciousness in regard to quantum, I thought this was interesting:

(edit: Cyp., don't go there, you won't find anything of value as a hard core materialist, but if you want to look for more to shoot at, here's another chance. This man has his detractors, all mainstream core).



If you think that guy is too far out there, try this:



Perhaps another fruitcake to you because he is on the fringe of advancement? Maybe you don't understand where I am coming from, I am referring to scientists who are at the fringes of current understanding and pushing forward.
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Sincerely investigate any of these three short quotes as new concepts and you've taken your first step into a larger world:

"I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness..." - Max Planck. "Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real" - Neils Bohr. "What we call physical things and events do not exist independently of subjective experience..." - Deepak Chopra.

Each of these three rabbit holes go deep, ending up in the same place.

Useless troll fighting.

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Old 04-04-2016, 06:28 AM #6644
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Ha, there have been far too many theorists and research scientists who were called quacks
That doesn't mean anything. There are a lot of flying saucer fanatics (maybe all of them?) that are called quacks. Is it because they're "ahead of science", or is it because they're quacks?

How do we distinguish false claims from true claims? We test them. If you're not okay with that, then the conversation can't go anywhere. What evidence can I provide that will convince you that evidence is necessary? If you don't value evidence, then the discussion is over.

"me and my beliefs are so advanced that you can't test them" is so nonsensical, that I don't really know how to respond.
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Old 04-04-2016, 06:51 AM #6645
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Now you are not following along with the last post because it appears you can't argue anything with it.

Of course we test them, but science has not advanced enough to test some things, it surely can't test whether a spiritual reality exists or not. I believe human beings are capable of having a great amount of vision far beyond the capability of our current level of technology to prove out. We also do this with physics, Einstein did so himself, he couldn't prove relativity but in time science caught up to where it could. It's called theory, then we work to get to a point where the theory can be proved, but so much starts with intuition which can be ahead of the ability for our current state of science to test. It's really a simple concept, I don't know why you are being so obstinate about this, unless you just enjoy argument, if so, drop off.

Your paraphrase was a good shot, but you are indicating it as a quote when it isn't a quote. Let me clarify further, in case you can't seem to get it: I believe human beings are capable of having vision. Hopefully the day will come when we can build instruments to prove some of them in the not too distant future, but I'm not holding my breath and don't really expect it. Science is good at material things to do with matter, energy and space etc., but spiritual things very well may be far beyond our instruments, simply because they are made from matter.

I'm not here to challenge the scientific method, it's great, but limited to the present level of advancement. Trying to mix discussion of science with spirituality is stupid, not for everyone, but can be for some. I started out trying to explain how science can't do that and you took it as a challenge to the scientific method, or you just decided to throw that into the mix as an argument, but I have no argument with it.
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Sincerely investigate any of these three short quotes as new concepts and you've taken your first step into a larger world:

"I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness..." - Max Planck. "Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real" - Neils Bohr. "What we call physical things and events do not exist independently of subjective experience..." - Deepak Chopra.

Each of these three rabbit holes go deep, ending up in the same place.

Useless troll fighting.

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Old 04-04-2016, 12:02 PM #6646
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

It still just boils down to what we each consider to be compelling evidence.


Some of us don't find an argument to be compelling without a certain burden of proof.

For example, if someone says that the universe has a restaurant at the end of it...where you can sit, have lunch, and watch the big bang happen over and over again through the restaurant's amazing scenic panorama windows, because they theorized that would be the case...

...some of us might look at their evidence of this, and find it wanting, and others of us might look at the exact same evidence, and decide they are convinced, or, that it at least seems plausible.


The QUALITY of the evidence tends to need to be stronger if a claim is more extraordinary...for most people.

IE: A statement such as "The Pizza guy is here", if you'd ordered a pizza to be delivered, might be accepted at face value, simply because its not unlikely to be true. So, it would not need to be "proven" to accept it as at least plausible.


A statement such as "Some people who report NDE but are saying it involved organized religious principles are not to be believed, but those reporting NDE who describe the experience in a non-organized way are to be believed....that there is life after death"

...would be looked at more critically, as no evidence that one group is more likely to be wrong about what they experienced, or to lie about it, or that the shared experiences are not due to other causes than the supernatural, is available.


And so forth.


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Old 04-04-2016, 03:37 PM #6647
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskan View Post

I'm not here to challenge the scientific method, it's great, but limited to the present level of advancement.

I think if science was limited to the "present level of advancement", it would not have, historically, advanced.

If we examine the scientific knowledge available, say, 5,000 years ago....and compare it to say, today's knowledge....I think a graph WOULD show advancement.


So, sure, we can't know more than its possible to know at any given point in time...but, as these points advance on a timeline, so does what we know due to science.


If there was a reason to think that something MIGHT be the case, say, the nature of dark matter or energy...that we don't YET know...

...the possibility that we MIGHT know it exists, because there was EVIDENCE that it existed.

It MAY turn out to be a red herring, but, measurements indicate SOMETHING out there is in need of further investigation.


There is a huge difference between asserting that something might be the case, but be unable to prove it because we might not have the technology to detect it...

...for something that we can describe the nature of what we are looking for, say, something with a specific mass range and other properties, and that would explain the observed expansion of the known universe, etc.

...and something like a thought....with no physical properties to look for, but with evidence of its existence, such as being known to lead to conceptualization of ideas, etc...and projected to consist of the sum processing of chemical and electrical reactions in brains and nervous systems....

....and collective thoughts, with the same "properties" as thoughts, but connecting all things in the universe including rocks...with no projected properties or mechanisms.


IE: Collective thought is as likely as rock thought.

There is simply nothing that suggests consciousness of things that are not conscious.


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Old 04-04-2016, 10:53 PM #6648
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Hopefully not a repost ...

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Old 04-06-2016, 06:58 PM #6649
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Old 04-07-2016, 06:57 PM #6650
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Old 04-07-2016, 07:06 PM #6651
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Old 04-19-2016, 01:05 AM #6652
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Forgive me for adding yet another post to this thread, but I found this very telling about the future to come for us:

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Each of these three rabbit holes go deep, ending up in the same place.

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Old 04-22-2016, 07:32 PM #6653
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Old 04-23-2016, 01:50 AM #6654
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by InfinitusEquitas View Post
LOL that's ironic indeed but, once again God's Word is confirmed !
God promised He would never again wipe out this sinful world by a global flood.

Genesis 9:11 And I will establish my covenant with you; neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth.

Of course, Satan, the father of all lies introduced the lie (through Darwin) of evolution and that fossils are millions or billions or trillions (I've lost count now) years old.

Fossils are proof that a global flood took place and that the creatures had to have been covered in the mud and sediment quickly, leaving the imprint of their bodies in the resulting layers.
Living creatures when they die deteriorate far to quickly to have the fossil remains imprinted in the fossil record if it took place over millions of years of sedimentary layering.

But be warned, God will once again judge this sinful world but this time by fire, hence we have Satan once again anticipating this so now we get this "Global Warming" rubbish, not to mention generating untold billions of dollars to go back into his One World Government scheme.

Matthew 24:37-39
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Also

2 Peter 3:3-13
Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
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─────────────────────────────────☀
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him
should not perish but have everlasting life.
For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world,

but that the world through Him might be saved.
“He who believes in Him is not condemned;
but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”
(John 3:16-21)
─────────────────────────────────☀
If you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from
the dead, you will be saved.
For it is with your heart that you believe unto righteousness
and it is with your mouth that you confess
your faith and
are saved.
(Romans 10:9-10)
─────────────────────────────────☀
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Old 04-23-2016, 02:19 AM #6655
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by RB astro View Post
Fossils are proof that a global flood took place
Oh that's some Ken Ham weapons-grade bullshit right there.

When it comes to your own beliefs, which do you value more: something that aligns with the bible, or something that aligns with the truth? If the latter, you need to talk to an actual geologist, archaeologist, or paleontologist. Y'know, the people that actually study this sort of thing.
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Old 04-23-2016, 02:25 AM #6656
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyparagon View Post
When it comes to your own beliefs, which do you value more: something that aligns with the bible, or something that aligns with the truth?
For me Cyp, the two are one and the same.

Of course I understand others don't see it that way and I respect that, hence the reason for this thread and discussion.
Personally I don't hold anything against other people that don't see it this way.
My enemy is Satan, not those that he's trying to destroy through his lies.

__________________
Andrew (RB)

─────────────────────────────────☀
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him
should not perish but have everlasting life.
For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world,

but that the world through Him might be saved.
“He who believes in Him is not condemned;
but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”
(John 3:16-21)
─────────────────────────────────☀
If you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from
the dead, you will be saved.
For it is with your heart that you believe unto righteousness
and it is with your mouth that you confess
your faith and
are saved.
(Romans 10:9-10)
─────────────────────────────────☀
RB astro is offline   Reply With Quote
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