Old 02-05-2016, 03:52 PM #6561
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Alaskan View Post
I found this video interesting:



Much of the same essence here too, which I fully agree with: https://youtu.be/xsxqT4OpHoU (No, I'm not into remote viewing, the other stuff in the video).


Cheers!
I was able to watch the second video.

The issues I have with it are that:

1) It assumes there is a god, with no evidence.

2) It assumes what god could or could not do, and, how he would be able to act....with no basis.

3) It postulates that we are god particles, with no basis for it.

4) It postulates that as god particles, 1), 2) and 3) therefore apply....to us.

5) It postulates that thought is divinely inspired, and we don't actually have the ability to think...yet, all the rest of us who can't think are providing our thoughts...

6) It assumes that reality doesn't exist outside of our ability to conceive of it, so that we simply reconceive it, and it changes accordingly.


IE: 100% total BS.



How can you fully agree with it, when it is so obviously entirely composed of male bovine solid excrement?



It could have just as easily said that there was no squirrel, as we are all a squirrel, and, as squirrels are all interconnected and able to change reality, and we are all squirrel particles, we have a squirrel hive mentality and can change reality to suit our desires.

And so forth.




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Old 02-08-2016, 12:47 AM #6562
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Wow, I agree with it 100 percent, except I have no interest in remote viewing. Hmmm...

Here's the video I'm talking about, don't get hung up on the simple words, particles etc.:



What if the things being explained in this video were actually true? How would this change your relationship with your fellows?

The kingdom of God is within... to borrow some words from religion, that part I agree with.
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Old 02-08-2016, 12:16 PM #6563
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Alaskan View Post
Wow, I agree with it 100 percent, except I have no interest in remote viewing. Hmmm...

Here's the video I'm talking about, don't get hung up on the simple words, particles etc.:



What if the things being explained in this video were actually true? How would this change your relationship with your fellows?

The kingdom of God is within... to borrow some words from religion, that part I agree with.


Can you post the youtube link?

I try to watch your vids, but my phone won't play them as posted w/o the link

- Thanks!
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Old 02-08-2016, 03:27 PM #6564
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

I suspect figuring out how this all works and our relationship to the creation of the universe is really too tall a task for human beings, but for me, there is certainly beauty in some of the ideas, but using the God word in any context is doomed for failure, I think.

That video is just the same one from the previous post: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsxqT4OpHoU - I embedded it to make it clearer which one I was referring to, that's all.
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Sincerely investigate any of these three short quotes as new concepts and you've taken your first step into a larger world:

"I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness..." - Max Planck. "Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real" - Neils Bohr. "What we call physical things and events do not exist independently of subjective experience..." - Deepak Chopra.

Each of these three rabbit holes go deep, ending up in the same place.

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Old 02-08-2016, 03:43 PM #6565
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Alaskan View Post
I suspect figuring out how this all works and our relationship to the creation of the universe is really too tall a task for human beings, but for me, there is certainly beauty in some of the ideas, but using the God word in any context is doomed for failure, I think.

That video is just the same one from the previous post: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsxqT4OpHoU - I embedded it to make it clearer which one I was referring to, that's all.

Human beings are not done trying to figure it out though, and, so far, whatever was left unknown, historically, was automatically attributed to god and as being unknowable....

...and then we figure some more out, and then whatever is left, AGAIN, is attributed to god and as being unknowable...and so on and so forth.


So, over time, what is attributed to god, and considered unknowable, becomes knowable, and, god's providence shrinks progressively over time.

IE: God as an explanation seems to be a placeholder for ignorance. The more we find out, the less space is left for god to explain.


Essentially, we are regularly harvesting the tree of knowledge, and, the world is slowly becoming more and more civilized, with the more fundamentally religious an area is, the more strife and conflict.

As god continues to shrink, to fit into the diminishing sphere of remaining ignorance, peace continues to grow into the newly available haven.

One day, perhaps terror-ists can be replaced by terra-ists.

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Old 02-08-2016, 03:53 PM #6566
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Alaskan View Post
I suspect figuring out how this all works and our relationship to the creation of the universe is really too tall a task for human beings, but for me, there is certainly beauty in some of the ideas, but using the God word in any context is doomed for failure, I think.

That video is just the same one from the previous post: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsxqT4OpHoU - I embedded it to make it clearer which one I was referring to, that's all.

The video is just a bunch of meaningless drivel though.


It says god exists, but is us, and we are god's senses.

And then it says that's WHY we are all connected.

And THEN it says that's WHY we can make up our own reality, etc. (the parts you ALSO saw as BS)


But, in reality, we are not someone's senses. We are us.

There is no god...or god particles.

We are not connected by being part of a supernatural forces' senses.


If you reject the visitation and reality altering woo, just remember that the claims for the woo you rejected, are based upon the warm fuzzy drivel that you liked.

Just because you like the IDEA of the drivel, doesn't change the reality of its drivinity. (Drivel + Divinity = Drivinity)

IE: As you surmised, you CAN'T mold reality to your whims supernaturally.

The REASON you can't, is because the REASONS HE SAYS YOU CAN, are BS.

(The drivel)


----------------------

As for how to treat others, etc...think about this. Do you NEED to think we need to have a supernatural connection to treat others fairly and compassionately?

Can't we just be nice w/o woo?


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Old 02-08-2016, 07:01 PM #6567
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

I really think all of this is a matter of perspective in regard to what each of us are willing to accept as a reasonable way of looking at something, or not. When it comes to the big G, I rather look at the subject in the same way light is looked at, it is a wave if measured one way (actually, not measured when using the double slit experiment, except the result) and a particle if measured, it just depends on how you look at it, or not, yet those properties still exist either way. Kind of like the paradox you get when trying to measure the exact speed and position of something at the same time, you get conflicts, you can't do both. Seeing that God could exist, or not reminds me of this paradox, it depends on who is looking, or not, and what they consider an acceptable way of looking at something. But....to get outside the thought box, it doesn't really matter what we as individuals think the truth is, as far as reality is concerned. At the same time, mankind are good at mirroring reality, if we weren't, we wouldn't have computers or rocket ships which function well, for a time, of course.

I'm standing on the fence with a contradicting duality going on in my mind regarding the subject of God because I can see either direction for or against the idea, there are reasonable ways of viewing the subject in either direction, depending how you frame things, what you consider acceptable. For myself, I don't find the God of most religions an acceptable concept, but at the same time I don't reject the idea out of hand either just because I can't prove it. When it comes to religious individuals who believe in the God of the Bible and atheists who completely reject the idea, I think they are both wrong in their own ways, those viewpoints are too restrictive either way, I think.

When it comes to the concept of God, I look at it the same way a cell is inside the body, or a molecule, or even deeper, atoms, sub atomic particles et al, we are just a part of the whole, that whole I call God and believe it is somehow, at some level, self-conscious. Am I right? I'm just a stupid human being, I don't know, but I like the idea and had an experience many years ago which leads me to this conclusion too. For this idea to work, our individual bodies would need to somehow be without boundaries, so that where we begin and end in body and or consciousness would need to extend much further than the individual and into the core essence of existence to have no real end, which I believe we do. Can I prove it? Ha ha.... these are thoughts, beliefs and desires for reality to match this model, I can't prove any of it but proof isn't required for such to be the deeper reality, but I believe at some point in the future we will find what we consider enough proof.
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Sincerely investigate any of these three short quotes as new concepts and you've taken your first step into a larger world:

"I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness..." - Max Planck. "Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real" - Neils Bohr. "What we call physical things and events do not exist independently of subjective experience..." - Deepak Chopra.

Each of these three rabbit holes go deep, ending up in the same place.

Useless troll fighting.

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Old 02-08-2016, 09:56 PM #6568
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskan View Post
I really think all of this is a matter of perspective in regard to what each of us are willing to accept as a reasonable way of looking at something, or not. When it comes to the big G, I rather look at the subject in the same way light is looked at, it is a wave if measured one way (actually, not measured when using the double slit experiment, except the result) and a particle if measured, it just depends on how you look at it, or not, yet those properties still exist either way. Kind of like the paradox you get when trying to measure the exact speed and position of something at the same time, you get conflicts, you can't do both. Seeing that God could exist, or not reminds me of this paradox, it depends on who is looking, or not, and what they consider an acceptable way of looking at something. But....to get outside the thought box, it doesn't really matter what we as individuals think the truth is, as far as reality is concerned. At the same time, mankind are good at mirroring reality, if we weren't, we wouldn't have computers or rocket ships which function well, for a time, of course.

I'm standing on the fence with a contradicting duality going on in my mind regarding the subject of God because I can see either direction for or against the idea, there are reasonable ways of viewing the subject in either direction, depending how you frame things, what you consider acceptable. For myself, I don't find the God of most religions an acceptable concept, but at the same time I don't reject the idea out of hand either just because I can't prove it. When it comes to religious individuals who believe in the God of the Bible and atheists who completely reject the idea, I think they are both wrong in their own ways, those viewpoints are too restrictive either way, I think.

When it comes to the concept of God, I look at it the same way a cell is inside the body, or a molecule, or even deeper, atoms, sub atomic particles et al, we are just a part of the whole, that whole I call God and believe it is somehow, at some level, self-conscious. Am I right? I'm just a stupid human being, I don't know, but I like the idea and had an experience many years ago which leads me to this conclusion too. For this idea to work, our individual bodies would need to somehow be without boundaries, so that where we begin and end in body and or consciousness would need to extend much further than the individual and into the core essence of existence to have no real end, which I believe we do. Can I prove it? Ha ha.... these are thoughts, beliefs and desires for reality to match this model, I can't prove any of it but proof isn't required for such to be the deeper reality, but I believe at some point in the future we will find what we consider enough proof.

I understand where you're coming from...you want to understand how things work.

And, while proof ISN'T required for reality, deep or shallow, to exist...

...it IS, ideally, required to evaluate the nature of reality.


So, if there is zero proof that we are god's senses...and there is proof that each of us has our own senses, concluding that we have our own senses seems to be the more reasonable choice.

To say something either exists, or doesn't, and therefore the two options are equally likely though, is a false dichotomy.

IE: Either the Easter Bunny exists, or doesn't....would be an example.

Despite it seeming as though the two choices have equal statistical merit, the existence evidence is far weaker than the non-existence evidence, and, in reality, the nature of which you seek, the belief in the Easter Bunny is simply foolish in comparison to not believing in the Easter Bunny.


Consider that the concept of "god" is rooted in mythology.

The attributes most people associate with "god" simply reflect what they were raised to believe.

Is there any evidence that a god ever existed? And, that it was immortal? That it knew everything? That it was all powerful? That it created anything, let alone the earth, the sun, the planets, and spacetime?

That it is created in man's image? That it looks like an elephant? That it looks like the sun? That it IS the sun?

If you were raised to worship a monkey god...the old man in the white robes/beard god would be foreign.


So, you ARE smart enough to recognize that the biblical god is ridiculous as a concept...that is a great start.

You are a good person, and want the universe to be good, and for everyone to get along...which is also a great start.

Now, just connect some more dots, and get to the point where you see that you don't need a mythological supernatural entity to try to achieve what your goals are.

Simply be a force for good in your life, and to try to inspire others to live in peace and harmony. Oppose those who would contaminate that objective, fight against unfairness. MAKE connections between yourself, and others...and you WILL be connected to them...in reality.


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Old 02-08-2016, 11:31 PM #6569
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Ha, funny, the old man in a white robe concept of god IS a monkey man God to me, that isn't my idea of any kind of God, maybe someone from an advanced civilization who manipulated our DNA to produce a monkey man in their likeness, but that's as close to a God I can imagine, but it certainly wouldn't be the kind of God I imagine as being some kind of self conscious being in the center of a collective cloud of consciousness we all share.

I wish I could debate you line by line, but it's useless, neither of us are likely to change our beliefs or wants of acceptance or rejection on this subject and as far as offering proof, either logical or material on this kind of subject, that's not going to happen.
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Sincerely investigate any of these three short quotes as new concepts and you've taken your first step into a larger world:

"I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness..." - Max Planck. "Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real" - Neils Bohr. "What we call physical things and events do not exist independently of subjective experience..." - Deepak Chopra.

Each of these three rabbit holes go deep, ending up in the same place.

Useless troll fighting.
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Old 02-08-2016, 11:39 PM #6570
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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Ha, funny, the old man in a white robe concept of god IS a monkey man God to me, that isn't my idea of any kind of God, maybe someone from an advanced civilization who manipulated our DNA to produce a monkey man in their likeness, but that's as close to a God I can imagine, but it certainly wouldn't be the kind of God I imagine as being some kind of self conscious being in the center of a collective cloud of consciousness we all share.

I wish I could debate you line by line, but it's useless, neither of us are likely to change our beliefs or wants of acceptance or rejection on this subject and as far as offering proof, either logical or material on this kind of subject, that's not going to happen.


LOL

I KNEW the monkey god would tickle you, as you are so far from imagining god as a "being"...

...just not far enough along to imagine him not existing.




On the other hand, any verifiable evidence of the universal consciousness, etc, would be 100% welcome.
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Old 02-08-2016, 11:52 PM #6571
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Well, if such a being exists, it's far beyond me to prove it, I think one would have to be God to do that Regardless of all of that, I think the existence of consciousness beyond death is something I could debate enough to perhaps change your mind, but that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with a God being in the center of creation behind everything, it very well could be consciousness is primary in the universe and not matter, looking more and more like that to me every day.
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Sincerely investigate any of these three short quotes as new concepts and you've taken your first step into a larger world:

"I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness..." - Max Planck. "Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real" - Neils Bohr. "What we call physical things and events do not exist independently of subjective experience..." - Deepak Chopra.

Each of these three rabbit holes go deep, ending up in the same place.

Useless troll fighting.
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Old 02-09-2016, 12:17 AM #6572
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Alaskan View Post
Well, if such a being exists, it's far beyond me to prove it, I think one would have to be God to do that Regardless of all of that, I think the existence of consciousness beyond death is something I could debate enough to perhaps change your mind, but that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with a God being in the center of creation behind everything, it very well could be consciousness is primary in the universe and not matter, looking more and more like that to me every day.
OK, fair enough.

But do consider that you START the debate saying its far beyond you.



If you can debate the idea of consciousness beyond death, it implies you have evidence.

If the evidence is defensible, it should stand as evidence of your belief.

If its your belief, but you feel understanding of it is beyond your own ability to prove...it at least implies you can't even prove it to yourself...let alone others?




What would you say is the most compelling evidence that consciousness, and not spacetime and the resultant matter and energy, comprise the cosmos?




Thus far, science has proven that spacetime exists, and, that matter and energy are spontaneously generated as a function of spacetime. Nuclear power, your GPS, gravitational lensing, etc, would not work if these were not true...so there is overwhelming evidence that spacetime, matter and energy exist, and, that the cosmos is composed of them.

Energy and matter have been studied, and while there are always new discoveries, we have a pretty good handle on what it does and what it acts like, and how it interacts with other forces and objects, etc.

Wave-particle duality is not really as described, its more along the lines of your other mention, of not being able to measure the momentum and position simultaneously...

...so measurement of a subject (Dual Slit Experiment for example) one way vs another way, doesn't change the subject, just the data about the subject.

Implications that it "Knows" if its being observed are essentially a semantic error for example.



So, what's your MOST COMPELLING evidence for consciousness vs spacetime, matter and energy?

Or, if you are fine with the existence of spacetime matter and energy, but need to ADD consciousness to them, because, well, its your worldview, based upon evidence...what is the most compelling evidence for it you have?


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Old 02-09-2016, 01:00 AM #6573
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

There is information which I see as reasonable evidence that life continues for us beyond the grave, but on this kind of subject, from what I can see so far, there is nothing which will qualify as proof to you less you see for yourself.

I'm not mad, upset or miffed when I write this, but the truth is when someone responds to me with a double barreled shotgun of criticizing statements and challenges they want a response on, I don't like to take such huge bytes, it's just too much to focus upon, for me. The life beyond the grave subject is huge, I can point the way for you to find answers, but I won't be the source to prove anything. If you want proof, I can't give that to you, only reasonable evidence but that's a rock and a hard spot too, what is reasonable to me, may not be reasonable for you.

If you want it enough to exchange PM's back and forth, I will spend the time, but if you just enjoy public debates, I'm not going to spend more of my time on this subject providing fuel for you to argue with as some kind of spectacle because I don't like public debates where someone is trying to win an argument instead of communicating to learn something. Of course, our intent may very well have nothing to do with that, but trying to teach ME something IS that what is going on, we are both trying to teach one another something, or just sharing our thoughts? I'm sharing my thoughts, it won't make any difference if you accept them or not to me, I'm not here to be a teacher, not qualified for that job, but I might be able to point you in a direction of interest, if you are truly interested in this subject.
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Sincerely investigate any of these three short quotes as new concepts and you've taken your first step into a larger world:

"I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness..." - Max Planck. "Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real" - Neils Bohr. "What we call physical things and events do not exist independently of subjective experience..." - Deepak Chopra.

Each of these three rabbit holes go deep, ending up in the same place.

Useless troll fighting.

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Old 02-09-2016, 01:30 AM #6574
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskan View Post
There is information which I see as reasonable evidence that life continues for us beyond the grave, but on this kind of subject, from what I can see so far, there is nothing which will qualify as proof to you less you see for yourself.

I'm not mad, upset or miffed when I write this, but the truth is when someone responds to me with a double barreled shotgun of criticizing statements and challenges they want a response on, I don't like to take such huge bytes, its just too much for me to chew on, but I can focus on one or two at a time. It's more than I just don't like it, it's really too much to focus upon, for me. The life beyond the grave subject is huge, I can point the way for you to find answers, but I won't be the source to prove anything. If you want proof, I can't give that to you, only reasonable evidence. If you want it enough to exchange PM's back and forth, I will spend the time, but if you just enjoy public debates, I'm not going to spend more of my time on this subject providing fuel for you to argue with as some kind of spectacle.

That's fine. I'll PM...we can avoid upsetting others that way too. TWO blasphemers discussing their blasphemy might have been a bit much anyway.

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Old 02-09-2016, 01:38 AM #6575
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

You responded while I was adding more

All I can do is give you places to go look and research NDE's, maybe point out some I think are the better stories which seem genuine.
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Sincerely investigate any of these three short quotes as new concepts and you've taken your first step into a larger world:

"I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness..." - Max Planck. "Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real" - Neils Bohr. "What we call physical things and events do not exist independently of subjective experience..." - Deepak Chopra.

Each of these three rabbit holes go deep, ending up in the same place.

Useless troll fighting.
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Old 04-01-2016, 05:46 PM #6576
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Just think it's interesting:

What is it like to be dead? Patient who ?died? says there is NOTHING after death | Science | News | Daily Express
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