Old 01-18-2016, 02:50 PM #6481
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Shakenawake View Post
I wont hold back ridicule of beliefs, but I will try to make sure it doesnt spill over to the person from now on. I think I've only slipped up a time or two there though

I enjoy the discourse though, so thanks for that. I'm not above reproof even if your guy's beliefs are
Thank you for the honest response. I'm sorry if it appears I think my beliefs are above reproof but I do not believe this. Biblically Christians are supposed to examine themselves.

But I will hold to the ideal that ridicule has no place in debate. Just as you agreed that the "spark" has no bearing on the truth of the claim and neither does ridicule, It does the opposite of showing kindness and can cause divide, IMO kindness will spur more critical thinking than ridicule. Who's words would you take more seriously, the one who shows you kindness, or at the very least respect, or the one who ridicules you?


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Old 01-18-2016, 04:07 PM #6482
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
Thank you for the honest response. I'm sorry if it appears I think my beliefs are above reproof but I do not believe this. Biblically Christians are supposed to examine themselves.

But I will hold to the ideal that ridicule has no place in debate. Just as you agreed that the "spark" has no bearing on the truth of the claim and neither does ridicule, It does the opposite of showing kindness and can cause divide, IMO kindness will spur more critical thinking than ridicule. Who's words would you take more seriously, the one who shows you kindness, or at the very least respect, or the one who ridicules you?
Those are good points.

I do notice it seems difficult for both those who believe in the supernatural, and those who don't, to be neutral as to feelings towards the other's viewpoint, as, to each, the other's view point seems to be naive/misguided, etc.

Responses, such as an atheist or theist might make when a post is so in conflict with what they "know", that they can't help but reflect it in the tone of the response...probably DON'T help.

I think the pattern, so far, in this thread at least...has been Christians acting as though they know the truth, and that those who don't believe the the book their beliefs are based upon, are fools...

...and atheists acting as though they know the truth, and those that believe the book that the Christians' beliefs are based upon, are fools.


There is an assumption that, in society, it is generally acceptable to question an opinion...except where religion is concerned.

There is no unique word for disagreeing about whether it will rain or not, or if pizza is better than hamburgers, or if the republicans or democrats have it right, etc.

There IS a unique word for disagreeing on religion though, its called "Blasphemy". This is punishable by death in many cultures.

The idea that "blasphemy" exists is a hold over from ancient cults and their control over the masses. It means, essentially, that it is taboo to question religion.

This carried over with the overarching concept that, for some reason, it is not ok to disagree with someone over the idea of deities, as a special, protected category.

In reality, there is no reason WHY it should be forbidden, as, if a belief is defensible, debate that illustrates a belief's validity, or characteristics compared to another belief, etc, should be allowed...just as it is allowed to argue over if pie or cake are better, etc.

Only those who cannot defend a belief would be troubled by this. If they discover they cannot defend their belief, they might ponder why it IS their belief, or, as many do, decide they want to keep it despite a lack of reasons to do so.

People are under no obligation to change their mind...and, people also have to accept that others WILL disagree with them from time to time. Accepting that someone disagrees SHOULD be as easy as accepting that they agree.

Where religion is concerned, this is upside down, and, other's not agreeing is punishable by death, torture, mutilation, ostracizing, etc...as not agreeing upon a belief is then tantamount to insulting the holder of the belief, or even as an attack upon the holder of the belief.

Here, luckily, we are rational people who cannot decapitate each other online.

We CAN disagree on beliefs, and, sometimes, CAN accept that the other party simply disagrees with us.

When a belief is presented in a way that triggers a defensive or rebuttal response, those responses tend to simply reflect the degree of amusement, or frustration, with the other party's post.


You are 100% correct in that we SHOULD all attempt to make THIS FORUM a place where we CAN discuss things in an intellectual and less emotional way, devoid of snarky or condescending tones, insults, etc.

Human nature being what it is though, I think we might expect to have to turn the tolerance dial up a few notches to compensate for shortcomings in that.


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Old 01-19-2016, 10:11 AM #6483
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Teej View Post
I think the pattern, so far, in this thread at least...has been Christians acting as though they know the truth, and that those who don't believe the the book their beliefs are based upon, are fools...
Teej just on that point, for me at least, I consider you, Shakenawake and others in this thread, who consider themselves atheists, argue your points very well and I don't consider anyone one of you a fool.

I can understand your frustrations on the Christian viewpoints presented but you guys show yourselves to be very intellectual from what I can see.

As for Christians of different mainstream denominations that I've met personally, that profess to be Christian but have little knowledge of the Bible or don't abide by the main pillars of truth of what the Bible teaches, I consider them not very smart in their position of assuming they know God but not His Word and act and speak contrary to what God/Jesus teaches us in His Word.

Bible says in Revelation that:

"I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot! So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth."
(Revelation 3:15-16)

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Old 01-19-2016, 12:34 PM #6484
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by RB astro View Post
Teej just on that point, for me at least, I consider you, Shakenawake and others in this thread, who consider themselves atheists, argue your points very well and I don't consider anyone one of you a fool.

I can understand your frustrations on the Christian viewpoints presented but you guys show yourselves to be very intellectual from what I can see.

As for Christians of different mainstream denominations that I've met personally, that profess to be Christian but have little knowledge of the Bible or don't abide by the main pillars of truth of what the Bible teaches, I consider them not very smart in their position of assuming they know God but not His Word and act and speak contrary to what God/Jesus teaches us in His Word.

Bible says in Revelation that:

"I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot! So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth."
(Revelation 3:15-16)



I notice the same thing, and agree that many self professed Christians act as you say. They claim to be True Christians, and, claim others, who do or say things differently, are not "True Christians", as they are.

If they were all True Christians, as you are, the world, I'm sure, would be a better place.

The problems seem to involve interpretations of the bible.

The Muslims have an analogous problem, in that some interpret their holy book differently than others do..and each says the other is interpreting it wrong.

The Jews also seem to have differences of opinion about how to interpret their holy books.

Each group says they are the TRUE Jews, or the TRUE Muslims, or the TRUE Christians....and apologizes for the other sects who, sadly, interpreted the holy books incorrectly.

In my experience, generally, people are good, and, want to do the right thing. They can have wildly different ideas as to what that consists of though.

Some seem to focus on observance of ritual or tradition as their method of worship...some on defending the faith, some on being charitable, and so forth.

Each is TRYING to "do it right", but the one who kills infidels thinks that's exactly what he is doing....as does the Jew who goes out the day before, to place belongings on the way to a place he needs to go on Saturday, but is "not allowed to travel" on Saturday (So that each stash of belongings is "his home", so he is not "travelling"...)...or the Christian who steals on Friday and asks forgiveness on Sunday, or gives an angry revengeful reply instead of turning the other cheek, etc.

Its an entire spectrum of "ways to do it". In reality, its like everyone has their own VERSION of their religion, and they ignore parts they disagree with (Birth control, etc) and concentrate on parts that seem more important to them (Say, picketing courts in protest that allowed two gays to marry, etc) - or visa versa, and so forth.

Some might have an affair, do some coveting, bear some false witness, but are outraged if they think someone ELSE is masturbating or engaging in homo$ U ality, etc....as THAT's the part of the biblical teachings THEY interpret as the "important part".

So, while religion, organized religion specifically, is waning across the civilized world in places where there IS freedom to not believe...many believe in god, and simply disagree as to what god wants from them.

Some are agonized by this, and cry out that all they need to do is read the bible/koran, etc... and they will know...but, doing so, on average, still leaves them not knowing, because interpretations can be so different....and all the organizations claim ONLY THEY are the TRUE representatives of the faith.

Even the Catholic Church, the ONLY source for the New Testament, and upon who's authority, as representing god here on earth, is only as per their own claims...is not trusted, and, Catholics are not considered as "True Christians" by many OTHER Christians.

So we have the party that said "Here is the holy word of god, faithfully recorded by our scribes as god whispered the words into their ears"....and people saying, yup, sounds legit....

...While at the same time saying the Pope and the Church DON'T represent god here on earth.

To me, if you don't accept what they say about who they are, how can you accept what they, and ONLY THEY, claim is "the truth"?


So, some accept it, as genuine, faithfully...despite not accepting the source as genuine.

And, then, those who accepted the work as genuine, while simultaneously denying the CHURCH's authority (upon which the work depends upon for its veracity), are flabbergasted when OTHER people can't understand the truth of the "holy book".

But it SAYS its TRUE!!! It says you go to hell if you don't believe its true! It says that those who DON'T think its true are fools! It SAYS that you will have your faith challenged by those who don't think its true! It SAYS you will be called a fool for believing it!!!

And so forth...its IN the book that was issued by an organization that demanded you believe in it, or else.

The Catholic church INVENTED the word "Propaganda", and, well, perhaps perfected it.

The "Big Lie Policy" adapted it, also quite effectively, and, well, it seems to work astoundingly well for the church...considering it got some modern people to accept bronze age homilies as divine.

So, a belief has no rights. People DO, but, not beliefs in of themselves. Attacking a person can be wrong. Criticizing a belief is not a matter of right and wrong.

My brother died yesterday. He was a Born Again Christian. He did not consider Catholics to be "True Christians". My father wanted to respect my brother's beliefs, despite their religious differences/my brother's rejection of my father's religion...so, we had to try to find someone to do the service...the way my brother would have wanted it.

I do not actually believe my brother will know who does what at the funeral...but, I know that those still alive find this sort of thing comforting, and do not point out that there is no god during the usual conversations about how he's with his mother and my other brother, dogs, whatever.

Telling someone they are fat, who is fat, might be true, but its hurtful, and, won't make them not fat. Telling people who are mourning, and comforted by the idea of an afterlife, is analogous.

I can have the conversation if they are open to it, but a funeral is not the time or place.

This forum on the other hand, as you have to log in and go to this thread, on purpose, TO discuss these issues, IS the place to have that conversation.

I truly appreciate those of us who CAN have a discussion about issues that deeply divide the world, in a rational and calm and respectful manner.

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Old 01-19-2016, 01:35 PM #6485
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by RB astro View Post
....

As for Christians of different mainstream denominations that I've met personally, that profess to be Christian but have little knowledge of the Bible or don't abide by the main pillars of truth of what the Bible teaches, I consider them not very smart in their position of assuming they know God but not His Word and act and speak contrary to what God/Jesus teaches us in His Word.

Bible says in Revelation that:

"I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot! So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth."
(Revelation 3:15-16)


well, sure, otherwise how could you think matthew 7:13-14 was correct. if the majority is christian, then why would the road to destruction be so broad? if few find the narrow way, then "true christians" must be a truely small minority. I think teej hit on that well. I also think part of the problem is god himself teaches contrary behavior. for example the command of stoning to death, but then later, letting those without sin cast the first stone, with the understanding that every human without exception has sin. quite a conundrum

the truth is, as humans, we all have much much more in common with eachother than not

more on "true believers" i think it's been posted before. not totally sure

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Old 01-19-2016, 02:01 PM #6486
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Shakenawake View Post
well, sure, otherwise how could you think matthew 7:13-14 was correct. if the majority is christian, then why would the road to destruction be so broad? if few find the narrow way, then "true christians" must be a truely small minority. I think teej hit on that well. I also think part of the problem is god himself teaches contrary behavior. for example the command of stoning to death, but then later, letting those without sin cast the first stone, with the understanding that every human without exception has sin. quite a conundrum

the truth is, as humans, we all have much much more in common with eachother than not
We are all humans, present company not excepted.

The homilies offered by the bible conflict because homilies do.

For example, look before you leap vs he who hesitates is lost.

Better late than never vs closing the barn door after the horses got out.

And so forth.

Of course, when viewed AS homilies, there's no conflict. IE: If you want to impart the wisdom of making a quick decision, you say "he who hesitates is lost".

If you want a person to think things over and make a more well thought out decision, you say "Look before you leap"....and so forth.

That way, there's a context for the seemingly conflicting advice given.

Its when they are viewed as absolutes that things ARE in conflict, as all of the circumstances and advice is subjective, not objective.

The some of the religious want (NEED) the advice to be objective morals...but they are simply homilies.

Some DO see it all as subjective, and interpret the stories in a the bible AS stories.

They see the stories as a way to give those homilies to people who have not heard them yet...and speak of using the stories to illustrate the context for their application.

Others see them as moral absolutes, and not as subjective advice, and try to apply homilies as objective morals.

Most of the religious people I know at least mix the two concepts together, and think of some as stories/not real events, but others as real events.

For example, you'd be hard pressed to find a real geologist who thinks there was a global flood a few thousand years ago...but you might find one who thinks Jesus walked on water...and some that assumed Jesus also knew where the rocks under the water were to walk on, and so forth.
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Old 01-19-2016, 02:43 PM #6487
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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for example the command of stoning to death, but then later, letting those without sin cast the first stone, with the understanding that every human without exception has sin. quite a conundrum
When you look at the context and purpose of the law in the old testament, then look at who and what Jesus was with respect to that, it's not a conundrum at all.
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Old 01-19-2016, 03:19 PM #6488
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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When you look at the context and purpose of the law in the old testament, then look at who and what Jesus was with respect to that, it's not a conundrum at all.
at the very least it represents a policy shift, and god's will is supposed to be eternal. as such, his "morals" can't be objective, if he changes them at any point.

I want to know, why was death the punishment for so much stuff in the old testament, but other sins could be forgiven with an offering? later, any sin can be forgiven with christ. if any sin can be forgiven through christ, why couldnt any sin be forgiven via offering? do you think that is consistent or logical? why is god's policy now to let the weeds grow with the wheat for now and wait till harvest day to burn the weeds in hell (matthew 13:24-42), but in the past, he removed evil people whenever he got mad, like in the flood or sodom and gomorrah?

I'm guessing you believers don't actually believe that the prescription in the bible for leprosy cures the disease in and of itself, but that it's an arbitrary act to show devotion to god, and that god then uses magic to do the actual curing. my question is, why do you think god makes people do such silly arbitrary things to display devotion, and if it's arbitrary anyway, why involve cruelty to a poor innocent animal? sounds like the handiwork of a sadist to me. a sadist who also likes to make their followers do amusing dances for their entertainment. all the while keeping us in the dark about the real cause, bacteria. hardly sounds divine to me

why are you ok with a god that demands death and blood for sin instead of one that demands, say for example, learning from mistakes and making amends with parties wronged?
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Old 01-19-2016, 05:32 PM #6489
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Shakenawake View Post
at the very least it represents a policy shift, and god's will is supposed to be eternal. as such, his "morals" can't be objective, if he changes them at any point.

I want to know, why was death the punishment for so much stuff in the old testament, but other sins could be forgiven with an offering? later, any sin can be forgiven with christ. if any sin can be forgiven through christ, why couldnt any sin be forgiven via offering? do you think that is consistent or logical? why is god's policy now to let the weeds grow with the wheat for now and wait till harvest day to burn the weeds in hell (matthew 13:24-42), but in the past, he removed evil people whenever he got mad, like in the flood or sodom and gomorrah?

I'm guessing you believers don't actually believe that the prescription in the bible for leprosy cures the disease in and of itself, but that it's an arbitrary act to show devotion to god, and that god then uses magic to do the actual curing. my question is, why do you think god makes people do such silly arbitrary things to display devotion, and if it's arbitrary anyway, why involve cruelty to a poor innocent animal? sounds like the handiwork of a sadist to me. a sadist who also likes to make their followers do amusing dances for their entertainment. all the while keeping us in the dark about the real cause, bacteria. hardly sounds divine to me

why are you ok with a god that demands death and blood for sin instead of one that demands, say for example, learning from mistakes and making amends with parties wronged?

The flood was an attempt to rid the world of the Nephelim and their human/hybrid offspring. The sin you are describing is the physical "bloodline" of the "evil" "giants". At this point most of the population had at least some "demon blood" in them. Read Genesis Chapter 6 and take it literally.
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Old 01-20-2016, 04:53 AM #6490
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Trendkilla254 View Post
The flood was an attempt to rid the world of the Nephelim and their human/hybrid offspring. The sin you are describing is the physical "bloodline" of the "evil" "giants". At this point most of the population had at least some "demon blood" in them. Read Genesis Chapter 6 and take it literally.
Then why is the flood not described as being for that reason, and, why does god say he regretted it and promised not to do it again, and give us rainbows to show his commitment?

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Old 01-20-2016, 05:00 AM #6491
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
When you look at the context and purpose of the law in the old testament, then look at who and what Jesus was with respect to that, it's not a conundrum at all.
So, the law that jesus says not to change an iota of, says to stone...and he also essentially says the FIRST stone is to be cast by one without sin....while also saying that we were born with sin...

And no conundrum pops out at you?



The law says to stone. So, if born with sin, you can't stone...and the premise of Christianity is that we were born with sin, and therefore can't cast the stone.

That's changing the law, by saying no one can observe it...it eliminates it.


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Old 01-20-2016, 02:07 PM #6492
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Teej View Post
So, the law that jesus says not to change an iota of, says to stone...and he also essentially says the FIRST stone is to be cast by one without sin....while also saying that we were born with sin...

And no conundrum pops out at you?



The law says to stone. So, if born with sin, you can't stone...and the premise of Christianity is that we were born with sin, and therefore can't cast the stone.

That's changing the law, by saying no one can observe it...it eliminates it.

Are you speaking of Catholicism or Protestant Christianity?
Jesus died on the cross to forgive all sin, including "Original Sin". Does this qualify as "without sin"? I would likely say no, but it's really semantics. Some believe you have to baptize a baby, some don't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teej View Post
Then why is the flood not described as being for that reason, and, why does god say he regretted it and promised not to do it again, and give us rainbows to show his commitment?

Edited in to avoid double post.
***It actually kinda does say this. He was not happy that human women bred with the "Sons of God" (not the sons of man, which it specifically says daughter's of man/men). This is the fallen angels. Now we have demon/fallen angel blood running through human veins. These are known as Nephilim or Men of Renown or the Men of Old. He found that Noah's blood was pure (you can look up his lineage). God "found favor" in Noah and allowed the human race to hit the reset button. The part I don't quite understand is why God allowed Noah to take other humans that were not of "Pure Blood". It does say the Nephilim were on earth in those days and also afterward. Sounds like a setup for the End of the Story to me.

If you look at other great text like the Sumarians just to name one. These same principle beliefs are the same. There are many cultures that believe this basic story. You can twist certain portions to fit your needs, maybe this is a flaw in my and other's "research".***

As far as why was there a rainbow and why was god "sorry" for the flood... because in order to rid the world of the evil he had to basically destroy it. It would seem he "felt bad" that he had to destroy many wonderful animals. Feels like he is a creator and doesn't necessarily enjoy destroying (at least in this portion of the bible, we could talk about sodom and gamorah and others later). I suppose the difference between empathy and sympathy?

I'm not so much on the "you have to do X this way, or that" I'm more on the "history" portion of the bible. What is the bible saying? Which other cultures and peoples had very similar stories and beliefs? What are the non-cannon stories of the bible telling us and why were they not included? Clearly there is more to the story. I do believe there is a God, I do believe that God sent down "himself/son" in a "being" form and not in an "ethereal" form. I do believe that he was killed by the ruling people of the time, be that the Jews or the Romans. I do believe that humans were "created". I do not believe that evolution was the only factor. Do I believe evolution exists... absolutely. I do believe in what people refer to as Demons. What they are I do not know or fully understand. They are either aliens, inter-dimensional beings, or possibly both. I don't think that how most people view angels and demons is at all accurate. Most people I talk to think they are some magical fairy type creature with wings that are halfway invisible and float at the end of your bed. Also people seem to think that when they die they are going to become an angel. This is not at all the case. Demons and Angels are very real and physical beings. I don't pretend to have all the answers, until someone can adequately explain what happened before the beginning, with either God or with "the big bang" I don't think I can ever be satisfied. I really would hate to just die and cease to exist. Or I guess I wouldn't hate it... cause I would cease to exist.
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Old 01-20-2016, 04:17 PM #6493
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trendkilla254 View Post
Are you speaking of Catholicism or Protestant Christianity?
Jesus died on the cross to forgive all sin, including "Original Sin". Does this qualify as "without sin"? I would likely say no, but it's really semantics. Some believe you have to baptize a baby, some don't.


Edited in to avoid double post.
***It actually kinda does say this. He was not happy that human women bred with the "Sons of God" (not the sons of man, which it specifically says daughter's of man/men). This is the fallen angels. Now we have demon/fallen angel blood running through human veins. These are known as Nephilim or Men of Renown or the Men of Old. He found that Noah's blood was pure (you can look up his lineage). God "found favor" in Noah and allowed the human race to hit the reset button. The part I don't quite understand is why God allowed Noah to take other humans that were not of "Pure Blood". It does say the Nephilim were on earth in those days and also afterward. Sounds like a setup for the End of the Story to me.

If you look at other great text like the Sumarians just to name one. These same principle beliefs are the same. There are many cultures that believe this basic story. You can twist certain portions to fit your needs, maybe this is a flaw in my and other's "research".***

As far as why was there a rainbow and why was god "sorry" for the flood... because in order to rid the world of the evil he had to basically destroy it. It would seem he "felt bad" that he had to destroy many wonderful animals. Feels like he is a creator and doesn't necessarily enjoy destroying (at least in this portion of the bible, we could talk about sodom and gamorah and others later). I suppose the difference between empathy and sympathy?

I'm not so much on the "you have to do X this way, or that" I'm more on the "history" portion of the bible. What is the bible saying? Which other cultures and peoples had very similar stories and beliefs? What are the non-cannon stories of the bible telling us and why were they not included? Clearly there is more to the story. I do believe there is a God, I do believe that God sent down "himself/son" in a "being" form and not in an "ethereal" form. I do believe that he was killed by the ruling people of the time, be that the Jews or the Romans. I do believe that humans were "created". I do not believe that evolution was the only factor. Do I believe evolution exists... absolutely. I do believe in what people refer to as Demons. What they are I do not know or fully understand. They are either aliens, inter-dimensional beings, or possibly both. I don't think that how most people view angels and demons is at all accurate. Most people I talk to think they are some magical fairy type creature with wings that are halfway invisible and float at the end of your bed. Also people seem to think that when they die they are going to become an angel. This is not at all the case. Demons and Angels are very real and physical beings. I don't pretend to have all the answers, until someone can adequately explain what happened before the beginning, with either God or with "the big bang" I don't think I can ever be satisfied. I really would hate to just die and cease to exist. Or I guess I wouldn't hate it... cause I would cease to exist.

If he destroyed the world to kill the remaining half breed nephilim, that he created...instead of doing a targeted assassination, such as he did with the Egyptian's first born, it seems incongruous.

Why drown all the humans to kill the bloodline of non-humans, and, why are there devils if they are physical...why would they survive what the nephilim could not?

The big bang is not the beginning of the cosmos, only of our universe.

There are projected to have been a succession of big bangs, all over the cosmos, perhaps an infinite number of them considering the infinite nature of the cosmos.

Essentially, the expanding universes lose enough energy for matter and energy to condense again, and start the process over again, ad infinitum.

As photons, electrons and positrons for example, are a product of spacetime itself...energy and matter are spontaneously generated, and no creator is required.

Liking the idea of not ceasing to exist is the fundamental promise of most religions...it is the single most appealing aspect to most people.

WANTING it to be true is proportionally impacting a person's tendency to believe that it is.

Its why the lottery, as a concept, makes so much money.

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Old 01-21-2016, 11:52 AM #6494
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Thumbs up Re: LPF's Religion

In reference to my post above on the 19th, as a follow up, we did find a minister for my brother's funeral yesterday. She did a good job I thought.

I do miss him.

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Old 01-21-2016, 06:58 PM #6495
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

I'm sorry for your loss Teej
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Old 01-21-2016, 08:34 PM #6496
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Teej View Post
If he destroyed the world to kill the remaining half breed nephilim, that he created...instead of doing a targeted assassination, such as he did with the Egyptian's first born, it seems incongruous.

Why drown all the humans to kill the bloodline of non-humans, and, why are there devils if they are physical...why would they survive what the nephilim could not?

The big bang is not the beginning of the cosmos, only of our universe.

There are projected to have been a succession of big bangs, all over the cosmos, perhaps an infinite number of them considering the infinite nature of the cosmos.

Essentially, the expanding universes lose enough energy for matter and energy to condense again, and start the process over again, ad infinitum.

As photons, electrons and positrons for example, are a product of spacetime itself...energy and matter are spontaneously generated, and no creator is required.

Liking the idea of not ceasing to exist is the fundamental promise of most religions...it is the single most appealing aspect to most people.

WANTING it to be true is proportionally impacting a person's tendency to believe that it is.

Its why the lottery, as a concept, makes so much money.

The bible does not indicate that God created the Angels or Fallen Angels (Demons/Devils). It is assumed.

Cosmos and Universe are exactly the same thing. The definitions are the same.

There is no proof of the "big crunch". It is a theory that is actually losing ground due to the fact that it has been proven that the expansion is staying the same (Hubbles Constant) . So this repeated expansion and contraction you speak of is just as much conjecture as the bible or belief in a God.

By Cosmos I am assuming you meant Multi-Verse.

It could be that each Super Mega Black Hole (Which is the center of out Galaxy) could be feeding another Universe's Big Bang. Time is relative to mass therefore I could see it as a possibility.

incongruous how so? He wasn't trying to rid the world of all the Egyptians. He wanted the Israelites freed. Many of the Egyptians agreed with Moses but would not turn against Pharaoh. The goal was to have Pharaoh and the Egyptian people see that The God of Moses and Abraham was the almighty. The goals were not the same.

The flood would be more in line with Sodom and Gamorah. A complete devistation of heretical persons. The bible does not indicate that Angels/Demons/Fallen/Devils can be killed. It states that they are to be imprisoned in the Abyss (Not Hell) to which Lucifer had the key until an Angel took it out of the Abyss shortly after the release of the locusts.

Also the "non-humans" are/were still mostly human. (We supposedly have spliced genes)
The first Human-Fallen Angel(Demons/Devils) children were known as the Nephilim. They were the Giants, The Men of Old, The Men of Renown. They continued to breed with humans. This injected more and more "evil" and ability to be manipulated by "evil". God used the flood in attempts to rid the world of them. The bible states that while greatly reduced, this was likely a failure. Genesis Chapter 6 verse 4 states that they were on the earth in those days and also "afterward". Does afterward end at the flood? I doubt it. I believe the proportion of evil and "conscience" are directly related to demon blood lineage. There is a reason we call people that do horribly bad things "evil".

I'm not at all saying I'm one of those "True-Christians" as in prior posts. I'm just saying that I believe there are certain ideas in the bible and other religions that have been repeated throughout history. I do believe in Jesus Christ. I don't by any means claim to have all the answers, I just string the stories along and try to follow them in what I consider to be a logical standpoint (logical being a relative term). I just refuse to believe that angels and demons are ethereal only beings. I do think they are could be trans-dimentional which would lead to why people think of them as ethereal. By definition they would be extra-terrestrials, but that could mean a number of things. I wouldn't go as far to say "Ancient Astronaut Theorists would contend". Because most of those "facts" are just completely wrong.

I agree with your position that my WANTING to not cease to exist drives my desire to believe in something "greater than myself". I would also say I enjoy reading and trying to fathom things that are very far outside the norm. I am a very open-minded person. It doesn't mean I always agree or believe every aspect of what I am "researching". I have read and watched several flat earth videos. IN NO WAY would I support or condone that as it is quite detrimental to rational thinking. It's complete hogwash, but entertaining none the less.


And I am sorry for your loss dude. I am glad to read you found someone who did a good service. I wish you ease of mind and spirit through this difficult time.

Last edited by Trendkilla254; 01-22-2016 at 02:11 AM.
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