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Old 01-06-2016, 11:42 PM #6449
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

Scenarios -

Given:

In 100 years, an asteroid the size of Jupiter is bearing down upon us, and, will sweep right through Earth, obliterating it entirely.


Scenario #1:

Antecedent factors:

Society accepted Christian Church leadership earlier in our history. Science is considered a heretical religion, and not allowed to contradict the bible.

Stars are considered to be close enough to sweep from the sky with a dragon's tail, the sun revolves around the earth, and, the earth is flat.

We do not have telescopes or the ability to calculate cosmic trajectories.

----

100 years later, all of humanity ceases to exist, and all traces of our existence is wiped from the universe.



Scenario #2:

Antecedent Factors:

Religion is abandoned as a primitive attempt at understanding the world, and science is an accepted, mainstream profession.

We understand and can calculate cosmic trajectories, and can also detect the incoming asteroid, and, have the technology to move to other planets and other solar systems.

----

100 years later, we are not on earth anymore, we abandoned it as soon as we realized it was doomed.




Scenario #3:

Antecedent Factors:

Science and religion are practically at war. The religious claim science is a heretic religion, and want to limit teaching it to children, or, if it has to be taught, to also teach that the earth is only 6,000 years old and covered by a dome of water, as an alternative theory that the children can then make their own comparison of.

Children are taught that believing what science teaches, if in conflict with the bible, is evil, and can mean they will be tortured in hell.

Some children compare, and decide that they don't want to burn in hell...and other decide that hell sounds a lot like getting coal if you're not good around christmas...and that its probably also BS.

Some kids go into science, and some follow whatever other paths they can w/o risking hellfire, etc.

----

The scientists say they see an inbound asteroid that will impact earth in 100 years.

The religious insist its Armageddon/god's judgement, or, deny that science is correct, as its wrong about god for example, or, pray to be saved.

Funding/cooperation to get mankind to work together to get off earth, or figure out how to avoid the impact, etc, strangles in a political morass between those who say to pray and those who say to use science.


In scenario #3, to me, its similar to the US today.

If there's a god, would he smash earth to smithereens?

He's wiped out everyone on earth before, except a new crop of our incestual ancestors, at least twice according to the mythologies...so, after the flood myth, he did promise to not wipe everyone out anymore...by flood at least.

Is the new story projected to include some "The only good people" saving a pair of everything, some family members to interbreed with, and building a space ark?

How will the "Only good people" have the ability to build a space ark?

The ark in the bible was more technologically advanced (Assuming it actually held together as it did int he story, etc) than anything in the ancient world at that time...wooden ships were not able to be built that large due to torsional stresses, etc....out of gopherwood no less.

So, scientists building a space ark, one capable of housing and transporting the enormous loads for the vast distances, and, calculating how to get to where ever out there was considered a good objective...would be potentially doable with enough time and resources.

Lay people, well, a space ship is an ambitious first project.

HOW good were these lay people? According to the religious who seem to be anti-science, the "Best" good people would not be scientists....especially scientists who understood how the cosmos worked well enough to navigate it, etc.

The ones who, say like Bill O'Reilly, did not know about gravity...would have a hard time calculating gravity's impact upon their trajectory, etc.

Essentially, either scientists would be the "Only good people" to be saved on the "Ark", or, all of mankind, instead of ALMOST all of mankind, would be doomed....

....or

Prayers worked, convinced god that he, again, made a mistake, and the asteroid disappeared due to magic.

We got the rainbow in consolation after the flood...maybe we can get the aurora borealis in consolation for the asteroid?



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Old 01-13-2016, 07:07 PM #6450
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Old 01-13-2016, 11:19 PM #6451
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

I like how god has a counter top corded phone...

And, that your bad connection died for Jesus's sins.


In real life, (the supernatural version, where there are gods and goddesses, etc) maybe he'd have a bronze age horn to yell into?


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Old 01-13-2016, 11:38 PM #6452
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teej View Post
I like how god has a counter top corded phone...
Meanwhile hipster Jesus died all because he kept trying to text the landline
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Old 01-14-2016, 12:07 AM #6453
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

"But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts."
(Jude 1:17-18)

"Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation."
(2 Peter 3-4)
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─────────────────────────────────☀
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him
should not perish but have everlasting life.
For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world,

but that the world through Him might be saved.
“He who believes in Him is not condemned;
but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”
(John 3:16-21)
─────────────────────────────────☀
If you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from
the dead, you will be saved.
For it is with your heart that you believe unto righteousness
and it is with your mouth that you confess
your faith and
are saved.
(Romans 10:9-10)
─────────────────────────────────☀
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Old 01-14-2016, 01:23 AM #6454
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

woah, a book full of B.S. predicted people would mock it? mind blown, it must be true
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Old 01-14-2016, 01:26 AM #6455
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shakenawake View Post
woah, a book full of B.S. predicted people would mock it? mind blown, it must be true
Fat Lady hasn't sung yet my friend......
__________________
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─────────────────────────────────☀
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him
should not perish but have everlasting life.
For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world,

but that the world through Him might be saved.
“He who believes in Him is not condemned;
but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”
(John 3:16-21)
─────────────────────────────────☀
If you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from
the dead, you will be saved.
For it is with your heart that you believe unto righteousness
and it is with your mouth that you confess
your faith and
are saved.
(Romans 10:9-10)
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Old 01-14-2016, 03:17 AM #6456
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by RB astro View Post
Fat Lady hasn't sung yet my friend......
I know, it's imminent. has been imminent for hundreds of years now

that verse makes it sound like mockers are an indicator that the end is near, but people have been mocking for quite some time.
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PL660 from Laserbtb 660nm 1020mW

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Old 01-14-2016, 03:40 AM #6457
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shakenawake View Post
I know, it's imminent. has been imminent for hundreds of years now

that verse makes it sound like mockers are an indicator that the end is near, but people have been mocking for quite some time.
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
(2 Peter 3: 8-9)

Enjoy the time you have left, this life is certainly the 'fleeting' one not the Eternal one.....

__________________
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─────────────────────────────────☀
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him
should not perish but have everlasting life.
For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world,

but that the world through Him might be saved.
“He who believes in Him is not condemned;
but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”
(John 3:16-21)
─────────────────────────────────☀
If you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from
the dead, you will be saved.
For it is with your heart that you believe unto righteousness
and it is with your mouth that you confess
your faith and
are saved.
(Romans 10:9-10)
─────────────────────────────────☀
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Old 01-14-2016, 05:47 AM #6458
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

damn I'm good. after I posted I thought, I bet he's gonna mention a thousand years being like a day to god. you guys are so predictable, though I have an advantage, as I was once one of you

so now any length of time can be twisted to mean whatever. how can we ever tell if any length of time in the bible is in "god years" or converted to human years? usually when christians bring this up it's to argue that the six day creation could have actually referred to a really long time, so that they can simultaneously believe in creation and that it took place slowly like evolution.

by the way god's claim that he is willing none should perish, is really laughable. would that be why he waited to bring the story of christ to the peoples of north and south america for like a thousand years? how about asia? japan? that's a lot of generations of people going to hell, but I guess they shoulda figured it out from nature

John 14:6
Romans 1:20

these two verses tell us that these natives are indeed destined for hell, none get to the father but through christ, and the indians had no clue who he was. however, they shoulda just looked up at the stars and the world around them and figured it out. I don't know about you, but whenever I look up at the stars, I just instantly have this guilty feeling like I've done something wrong and need to believe that a dude who was the son of god got whacked so that I can live forever even though I've been a douche. in fact, every time I examine nature I get this same thought. NOT.
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501B BDR-209 16X 405nm 910mW @.5A? g lens in for repair
Rifle from Lazerer likely a M140 445nm 920mW 3 element lens
Host by Ehgemus NUBM44 450nm 6.8W @4.5A g lens
Host by Ehgemus M462 462nm 1.5W @1.2A g lens
Dominator NUBM07E 465nm 4.3W @3.5A g lens
Coming soon: Host by Ehgemus Nichi@ NDG4216 515nm 135mW @ .35A
501B by Blord osr@m PL520 520nm 95mW @.3A g lens
PL-E pro from Jetlasers nichi@ NDG7475 520nm 980mW, 730mW w/ 10X BE

Lasermax Genesis sight 532nm 5mW FOR SALE
RPL from Optotronics 532nm 450mW in for repair

Spartan from Dragonlasers 589nm 50mW
501B HL63133DG 638nm 210mW @.3A g lens
501B Ocl@ro HL63193MG 638nm 960mW @1.3A g lens

501B by Blord LPC 826 660nm 325mW @?A g lens in for repair
PL660 from Laserbtb 660nm 1020mW

LPM
DL matrix and fan transmission gratings

laser powers in sig are about 20 seconds into duty cycle, not peak powers

http://laserpointerforums.com/f39/co...her-94720.html

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Last edited by Shakenawake; 01-14-2016 at 05:53 AM.
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Old 01-14-2016, 06:02 AM #6459
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him
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but that the world through Him might be saved.
“He who believes in Him is not condemned;
but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”
(John 3:16-21)
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Old 01-14-2016, 06:10 AM #6460
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Old 01-14-2016, 01:38 PM #6461
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shakenawake View Post
so now any length of time can be twisted to mean whatever. how can we ever tell if any length of time in the bible is in "god years" or converted to human years?
Context & word study...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Shakenawake View Post
by the way god's claim that he is willing none should perish, is really laughable. would that be why he waited to bring the story of christ to the peoples of north and south america for like a thousand years? how about asia? japan? that's a lot of generations of people going to hell, but I guess they shoulda figured it out from nature
Such persons are judged on the basis of their response to general revelation, so that salvation on the basis of Christ's death is universally accessible. Someone who senses his need of forgiveness through his guilty conscience and accepts the mercy of God revealed in nature may find salvation. Not that people can be saved apart from Christ, but the benefits of his atoning death can be applied without their consciousness knowledge of Christ. This is seen in the old testament.
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Old 01-14-2016, 02:02 PM #6462
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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I don't know about you, but whenever I look up at the stars, I just instantly have this guilty feeling like I've done something wrong and need to believe that a dude who was the son of god got whacked so that I can live forever even though I've been a douche.
At least you admit that you have been a douche, confessing your sin means you can be forgiven, there is hope for you yet.

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Old 01-14-2016, 09:26 PM #6463
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pi R Squared View Post
At least you admit that you have been a douche, confessing your sin means you can be forgiven, there is hope for you yet.

Alan
I never had a problem having to make up for wrong I do. I go farther than confession, I make ammends. it's the fact that I'd be sent to hell regardless of whether I had ever sinned or not, due to original sin and simply not being convinced that god or his son exist, that bothers me. or being convinced that these beings are "good", which even if I could be convinced exist, I would still have to be convinced that they are good. god seems insecure and demands no other gods be worshipped. but if he's all powerful, why fear these other gods? maybe they have a better deal or will give positive evidence of their existence. maybe there's a diety out there who wants a personal relationship with me but isnt so obsessed with being worshiped and glorified constantly. if I were all poweful, I wouldnt need constant praise, it gets in the way of freely exchanging love

the ultimate irony is I was a much bigger douche as a christian. BECAUSE I was a christian. if you think mocking christians makes me a douche, well I think telling people they are born sick and demanded on threat of death to be well is douchy, so where does that leave us? i could try to be polite, but it's inevitable you'll be offended by my beliefs and opinions, no matter how sweetly I package them, so I don't really try to be nice. plus I think religion is deserving of ridicule, just like any other dumb idea submitted to public forum. I can dish it out and take it. it's when a side resorts to violence that we become truely uncivil. the fact we can have this talk without one of us being killed is a sign of how far we have come, and how much farther we have to go

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
Such persons are judged on the basis of their response to general revelation, so that salvation on the basis of Christ's death is universally accessible. Someone who senses his need of forgiveness through his guilty conscience and accepts the mercy of God revealed in nature may find salvation. Not that people can be saved apart from Christ, but the benefits of his atoning death can be applied without their consciousness knowledge of Christ. This is seen in the old testament.
this is unintelligible to me.

can you find where it says in the bible people who dont hear of christ are judged by their response to "general revelation"

can you describe "general revelation"

how is god's mercy revealed in nature? heck, how is god revealed in nature? when I watch a wasp lay an egg on another creature after paralyzing it but keeping it alive, then watch the larvae hatch and eat it's way out of it's helpless victim, at what point to I stop to reflect on god's mercy? when a tsunami kills hundreds of thousands of people including children and infants, where is the intrinsic mercy of god?

I was actually joking before, looking at nature stirs no guilt in me, and I've never heard anyone else say it does. even if it did, how would they extrapolate that to know what they are supposed to do?

I call SUPREME B.S.

wikipedia saved me some trouble:

regarding "general revelation" it says, "General revelation is understood as the everyday experience of life, but is SOLEY DEPENDANT on interpretation of those experiences as comprehending God's hand in external events or things."

meaning you are free to interpret nature as a god's work, but it's all in your head, there is zero reason anyone else should share that belief

seems to me this is a rationalization for you that lets you maintain the belief that god is fair despite not letting his word show up on some continents for a millenium. I dont think the bible establishes god as fair. not every person has equal oppertunity to know him. those infants he wiped out in the flood didnt seem to get a chance. saul got one, but most people opposed to god in the bible were simply killed. why doesnt god appear to them all, like saul? what made him so damn special?

let's say someone does feel guilt. what in nature tells them that they need to accept vicarious sacrifice for redemption as opposed to, oh I don't know, making ammends with the specific parties they wronged. for example, restoring any damage caused, maybe doing a little more even to show you are really sorry? because if I were to do the whole thing by intuition, my gut and my experience in the world, would lead me personally to the latter

do you really presume to tell me that if you released a million kids out into nature, that a substantial portion would return describing a guilt they feel they were born with and the need for forgiveness through vicarious blood sacrifice? get real man

when I look at nature, I see indifference. to quote tool:

"Credulous at best, your desire to believe in angels in the hearts of men.
Pull your head on out your hippy haze and give a listen.
Shouldn't have to say it all again.
The universe is hostile. so Impersonal. devour to survive.
So it is. So it's always been."

so really I'm glad I don't get any moral ideas from natural order alone. if I did I might kill as indifferently as any animal or natural disaster, just like you christians often seem to fear us atheists will do. if it makes you feel any better, I've got similar fears about believers. I hear they cut atheist heads of in saudi arabia, and they're our allies
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Old 01-15-2016, 02:49 AM #6464
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shakenawake View Post
this is unintelligible to me.

can you find where it says in the bible people who dont hear of christ are judged by their response to "general revelation"

can you describe "general revelation"

how is god's mercy revealed in nature? heck, how is god revealed in nature? when I watch a wasp lay an egg on another creature after paralyzing it but keeping it alive, then watch the larvae hatch and eat it's way out of it's helpless victim, at what point to I stop to reflect on god's mercy? when a tsunami kills hundreds of thousands of people including children and infants, where is the intrinsic mercy of god?

I was actually joking before, looking at nature stirs no guilt in me, and I've never heard anyone else say it does. even if it did, how would they extrapolate that to know what they are supposed to do?

I call SUPREME B.S.

wikipedia saved me some trouble:

regarding "general revelation" it says, General revelation is understood as the everyday experience of life, but is SOLEY DEPENDANT on interpretation of those experiences as comprehending God's hand in external events or things.

meaning you are free to interpret nature as a god's work, but it's all in your head, there is zero reason anyone else should share that belief
Many are divided on the belief whether general revelation can be counted as righteousness. I can support my position but then again there are arguments for both sides. Although this is a difficult reality and not a topic to tread lightly on, as cold as this may seem neither view poses a defeating logical inconsistency to Christianity.

On a personal note I was raised Christian, fell away in college, and came back near the end of my college years. What brought me back and has kept me here has been my belief in an intelligent agent revealed in nature & Jesus.

"How is God revealed in nature"
I see it in the fine tuning of the universe, the existence of abstract objects and their relations to reality, the complexity of early life on earth, our moral experience, and consciousness to name a few. Being open to the existence of God frees me from the philosophy that the unexplained or "supernatural" is impossible, and the hypothesis that God would raise Jesus from the dead becomes plausible. The resurrection account passes the criteria of authenticity, historical fit, independent early sources, embarrassment, coherence, and this all points to God raising Jesus from the dead. It's completely reasonable to come to this conclusion when seeking the meaning of existence and it has anchored my faith since my return. There are difficult topics in scripture, but the issues you're bringing up are ancillary to the center of it all... Jesus.

One more thing I want to point out to you is how you've been challenging our faith in Christ.

1 Peter 3:15

This is the model I strive for when sharing my faith although I do fail. Sharing in gentleness and respect, love and kindness. It can produce a genuine spark to show someone you care about them even if you don't know them, even if they are your enemy. But so much coming from yourself and the atheists here is condescending, rude, and uncaring. It's strange to claim your morality is superior, then continually act this way.
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