Old 12-13-2015, 08:19 PM #6289
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

For myself, I'd go fast and maybe not look back if the view were interesting enough ahead of me.

A lot of what is going on here and the ability for life after death makes more sense to me when I consider we might all be living in a virtual reality created by, shall I use that most over used and baggage'd word; God? I don't like religion much, but I cannot escape the possibility this is what is really happening.

Here's a better link to answer the question regarding NDE's: Near-Death Experiences and Skepticism


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Sincerely investigate any of these three short quotes as new concepts and you've taken your first step into a larger world:

"I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness..." - Max Planck. "Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real" - Neils Bohr. "What we call physical things and events do not exist independently of subjective experience..." - Deepak Chopra.

Each of these three rabbit holes go deep, ending up in the same place.

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Old 12-13-2015, 08:25 PM #6290
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

I will be hopefully optimistic with you my friend, but let's not go taking any rides on the spaceship following the hale-bop comet just yet.
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Old 12-13-2015, 09:02 PM #6291
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Yes, belief can kill you... It's a poor substitute for knowledge.
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Sincerely investigate any of these three short quotes as new concepts and you've taken your first step into a larger world:

"I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness..." - Max Planck. "Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real" - Neils Bohr. "What we call physical things and events do not exist independently of subjective experience..." - Deepak Chopra.

Each of these three rabbit holes go deep, ending up in the same place.

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Old 12-13-2015, 09:44 PM #6292
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Default Re: LPF's Religion


And those who know Your name will put their trust in You, For You, O LORD, have not forsaken those who seek You.
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Old 12-13-2015, 09:49 PM #6293
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

That would be a wonderful thing indeed, my belief or not does not change reality, except perhaps for myself.
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Sincerely investigate any of these three short quotes as new concepts and you've taken your first step into a larger world:

"I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness..." - Max Planck. "Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real" - Neils Bohr. "What we call physical things and events do not exist independently of subjective experience..." - Deepak Chopra.

Each of these three rabbit holes go deep, ending up in the same place.

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Old 12-13-2015, 11:00 PM #6294
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Not sure if this is true or not but I remember hearing that some people were asked to blink their eyes after getting beheaded by the guillotine and some actually did. Anyone else heard of that?
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Old 12-13-2015, 11:36 PM #6295
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

There may be a couple seconds of oxygen, but once you lose blood pressure to the brain a person loses consciousness quickly.

We used to practice aikido/jujitsu and once the choke hold get sunk in tight people would pass out quickly, and even after you let go and blood starts flowing again it takes 10 seconds to wake back up, the brain is very oxygen sensitive, but with a guillotine if they grabbed the head out of the bucket quickly they may be able to react for a second or two, but that I bet would be about it.
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Old 12-13-2015, 11:52 PM #6296
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedCowboy View Post
There may be a couple seconds of oxygen, but once you lose blood pressure to the brain a person loses consciousness quickly.

We used to practice aikido/jujitsu and once the choke hold get sunk in tight people would pass out quickly, and even after you let go and blood starts flowing again it takes 10 seconds to wake back up, the brain is very oxygen sensitive, but with a guillotine if they grabbed the head out of the bucket quickly they may be able to react for a second or two, but that I bet would be about it.
Yeah I believe the time period a brain can last without oxygen is a measly 15 seconds. Makes you appreciate plants even more doesn't it?
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Old 12-14-2015, 06:32 AM #6297
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Here's another woo woo video I really like, but is it all woo, is any of it woo?

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Sincerely investigate any of these three short quotes as new concepts and you've taken your first step into a larger world:

"I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness..." - Max Planck. "Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real" - Neils Bohr. "What we call physical things and events do not exist independently of subjective experience..." - Deepak Chopra.

Each of these three rabbit holes go deep, ending up in the same place.

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Old 12-14-2015, 10:32 AM #6298
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by VisibleGreen View Post
Yeah I believe the time period a brain can last without oxygen is a measly 15 seconds. Makes you appreciate plants even more doesn't it?
LOL

Excellent point.

If they had not polluted the earth with toxic oxygen, and our distant ancestors had not evolved a way to metabolize that poison and survive, life might not have gotten to where it is now.

The poison is now the antidote.



Plants, they had a brilliant plan that back fired.

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Old 12-14-2015, 10:33 AM #6299
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Alaskan - The link is not working for me, do you have another way to link it?
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Old 12-14-2015, 10:45 AM #6300
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pi R Squared View Post
Many people have an NDE/OBE without brain damage, of course you could claim it's just a dream, but I think it happens to far too many to just ignore it, if it was just a dream there wouldn't be so many things in common.

Alan
Its typically the opposite actually.

The reason they have so much in common is that people tend to have the same symptom sets when afflicted with the same maladies.

As the reported NDE visions can be simulated by simply shutting down oxygen to the brain, and, when a person is near death, their brains are almost always oxygen deprived.

Add to that the fact that the doctors who write messages on top of the lights and equipment, messages that would be visible to someone above, never, ever, have had a NDE patient who SAID they were looking down on themselves and the operating room, see the messages they WOULD HAVE SEEN, if, in fact, they had been.

So, we all "know" we're supposed to have our lives flash before our eyes, see a white light, etc...and, if we think we are dying, we EXPECT these sort of things.

Add in the cues from oxygen deprivation, etc, and we get what we expect to have reported as a NDE.

If even ONE NDE who was above the operating room looking down SAW a message for them, OK, that would be counter indicative of it being just a dream/hallucination...as they DID see what they would see, if where they said they were.

BUT, no one ever did, so far at least....so its all a hallucination/dream.

If it becomes common knowledge that there are messages viewable from above, the NDE will change to "And I saw messages on top of the lights, but could not read them, it was all too blurry/I was too distracted..." and so forth....or, maybe even trying to find out what the messages are before surgery so as to be able to report seeing them later, etc.


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Old 12-14-2015, 02:05 PM #6301
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

I posted in another thread about the effects of DMT It is so close to what people describe as a near death experience. It is chemically driven. The part that blows my mind is how close to the same experience people have. Read up about it and tell me it's not a bit alarming.
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Old 12-14-2015, 11:52 PM #6302
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I posted in another thread about the effects of DMT It is so close to what people describe as a near death experience. It is chemically driven. The part that blows my mind is how close to the same experience people have. Read up about it and tell me it's not a bit alarming.
Mammals and other critters produce all sorts of chemicals in their brains and nervous systems, and there are myriad feedback loops involving them. There are things that serve a purpose, and, things that are released when that purpose has been addressed, and those things stop the production of the first stuff, and so forth.

Many of the metabolite relatives of these "drugs" such as morphine, DMT and derivatives, etc, are naturally produced in people...and, in shock/stress/when dying, its not unusual for a brain and nervous system that's shutting down and not regulating the loops well anymore, to have something build up/be released that it gets loopy from.

Compare it to a kidney who's job it is to regulate electrolyte levels for example, effing that up completely as a person is dying.

All of the organs tend to go haywire as you die.....as the feedback loops and controls are being abandoned/functioning more randomly, etc.


So, sure, a brain that's not working properly is going to go haywire, and, some of the effects are common enough to be associated with the process.

Its a medical condition, not a transcendental experience.

Dorothy may have THOUGHT her dream was real, but, lets face it, she was wrong.

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Old 12-17-2015, 03:25 AM #6303
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Teej View Post
Its a medical condition, not a transcendental experience.
As far as you know Conciousness is not fully understood.
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Old 12-17-2015, 06:24 AM #6304
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
As far as you know Conciousness is not fully understood.
LOL

Logically, a damaged brain is less reliable than a functioning one.

Logically, if a damaged brain displays the same symptoms with the same types of damage, the symptoms can be considered as related to that damage.

If the symptoms are the same as that reported as transcendental, then the transcendental experience is a symptom.

Yes, brain damage may induce feelings and emotions and other symptoms...and this is experimentally confirmed and understood.


So, some doctors write stuff on the tops of cabinets, lights, equipment, and even the tops of their head coverings sometimes.

Their NDE patients report that they were looking down at the operating room, and watched the surgeons, etc, working on them, from above.

NONE have EVER seen the messages.

The reason is that they were unconscious, and not actually floating anywhere, and especially not where they said they were, and, not seeing what they would have if they saw what they said they did.

So, the NDE patients are either all liars, or, more likely, as drugs brain injury and O2 deprivation causes the same hallucinations...they were simply having the same hallucinations.


So, we do understand THAT part.

If they WERE floating up out of their bodies and looking down, they'd see what was THERE when they looked down.

If they are merely IMAGINING that they are looking down, while unconscious, they would see what they imagined was there instead of what WAS there.

So, if transcendental, they'd see what was really there.

If imagined, they'd see what they imagined what was there.

They saw what they imagined, not what was there, so, it was a symptom of their injury, and not transcendental.


Last edited by Teej; 12-17-2015 at 06:25 AM.
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