Old 11-03-2015, 09:14 AM #6257
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teej View Post
Andrew,

While I'm thinking about this...


-AFTER they ate the apple...THEN they knew right from wrong, and that they had done something wrong.

-Snakes get no punishment...just humans who were made to not know right from wrong?


Could you expand upon the logic of that?
Yes I can.
You're mis-interpreting what the bible actually says.
Easy to do if you listen the world's (pro-negative) interpretation of the bible.
Adam and Eve knew it was wrong to take the fruit, God actually warned them, so they had prior knowledge of what was right and wrong.

But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. (Genesis 2:17)

It was Satan that spun the lie (surprise, surprise) that they didn't have prior knowledge of right and wrong and that if they took the fruit then they would know right from wrong.

Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
(Genesis 3:1-5)

You see how Satan twists the words of God?
Just enough to cast doubt in people's minds.
Remember it is God who can not lie and it is Satan that is the father of all lies.

Now, again, I urge you to think on the spiritual not just the physical level.
Of course a normal serpent/snake can't talk.
We're told that Satan, our adversary, takes on many different forms, he even can appear as an angel of light, and has done so many times and has deceived even the so called believers.
If only they held fast to God's Word, they would spot the counterfeit.
Satan, even if he appears as an angel of light, will always contradict an/or twist the Word of God.
That's how you can spot him and that's why, only the Word of God will guide you and I through this life.

The serpent/snake in the garden was a physical animal which Satan entered into and possessed to beguile Eve.
He did the same thing when he entered Judas to betray Jesus.

Below is a passage that I found which explains things a bit more clearly, I apologise for the length but I think it does convey a good explanation of the subject we're talking about.

Quote:
In the account of the temptation of Eve and the Fall of mankind, in Genesis chapter 3, we are introduced to a creature called ‘the serpent’. Who or what is this creature? Was it a real serpent? Some people try to make out that the story is just symbolic or an allegory, because animals do not speak human language. So who or what is the person who uses the body of this ‘beast of the field’, not only to speak to Eve, but also to persuade her to disobey almighty God?
The cardinal rule in understanding Scripture, and especially those verses which may be something of a puzzle, is to interpret Scripture by Scripture, that is, to see what other verses have to say on the same subject.
So what is there in the rest of the Bible that may help us to identify this serpent?
What Jesus said

On one occasion Jesus said to some Pharisees who were trying to kill him,
‘You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.’ (John 8:44).
To what event, involving lying and murder, from the beginning, could Jesus have been referring?
The temptation of Eve certainly qualifies as being in the beginning, as it is the first recorded event involving Eve after her creation. The serpent lied to Eve when he said, ‘You shall not surely die,’ and as this is the first lie recorded in Scripture, the title ‘father of it ’ [‘it’ = lies or lying] would seem to be a very apt description of the person doing the lying on this occasion.
Eighteenth century Bible commentator Matthew Henry comments on the passage,
‘He [Satan] is the great promoter of falsehood of every kind. He is a liar, all his temptations are carried on by his calling evil good, and good evil, and promising freedom in sin.’1
Finally, the serpent’s efforts resulted in the penalty of death falling not only on Adam and Eve, but on the whole human race. Jesus’ term of ‘murderer’ therefore certainly applies to whoever tempted Eve.
The work of the serpent is thus the enactment of everything that Jesus ascribed to ‘the devil ’ in John 8:44. Furthermore, there is no other event in recorded history that better fulfils this description of the devil than does the account of the temptation by the serpent in Genesis 3.
A further tie-up between the serpent of Genesis 3 and Satan, or the devil, is given in Revelation 12:9 and 20:2:
‘And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world’
The word ‘Satan" means ‘adversary’—primarily to God, secondarily to men; the term ‘devil’ signifies ‘slanderer’ of God to men, and of men to God.’2
The serpent identified

Was the serpent then Satan? Although the Bible tells us that ‘Satan himself is transformed into an angel of Light’, or ‘masquerades as an angel of light’ (2 Corinthians 11:14), there are difficulties in assuming that something like this happened in the Garden of Eden. Theologian Henry C. Thiessen comments:
‘… the serpent is neither a figurative description of Satan, nor is it Satan in the form of a serpent. The real serpent was the agent in Satan’s hand. This is evident from the description of the reptile in Genesis 3:1 and the curse pronounced upon it in 3:14 [… upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy Life ].’3
The Bible tells us that, just before Judas left the Upper Room to go and betray Jesus, ‘Satan entered into him’ (John 13:26–27). Likewise demons can, under certain conditions, indwell either human bodies or animal bodies—for example, the time when Jesus cast out a legion of devils from a man, and they then entered a herd of pigs which ran down a steep place into the sea (Mark 5:1–13). It is therefore proper for us to conclude that Satan appropriated and used the body of a specific serpent on this occasion to carry out his subtle purpose of tempting Eve to sin.
It is also clear that the use of euphemisms about the serpent, such as calling him ‘the personification of evil’, or labelling the whole incident ‘myth’ or ‘theological poetry’, will not do. The Bible presents this episode as a personal encounter between Eve and Satan, as real as that between Christ and Satan in the wilderness.
The identification of the serpent as the one whose body Satan used raises further questions, such as does Satan speak audibly?
Satan speaking?

When Satan tempted Jesus, he did so with words. Jesus replied and their conversation is recorded for us in both Matthew’s and Luke’s Gospels (Matthew 4:1–11; Luke 4:1–13), although we are not told anything about the way Satan appeared on this occasion.
In John Bunyan’s Pilgrim’s Progress , the description of Christian’s conversation and fight with Apollyon is no surprise to many Christians, who have had similar spiritual experiences. It is said that Martin Luther found conflict with the devil so real that on one occasion Luther threw an inkwell at him.
Concerning the temptation of Eve, Christian writer and expositor J. Oswald Sanders writes:
‘It has been suggested that just as the speaking of Balaam’s ass was a divine miracle, so the speaking of the serpent was a diabolic miracle.’4
Where did Satan come from?

God has chosen not to tell us very much about the origin and apostasy of Satan.5 From the Bible we learn that he is the chief of the fallen angels (called demons or devils), and is the great adversary of God and man (Job 1:6–12; 2:1–6; 1 Peter 5:8).
He fell through pride (1 Timothy 3:6), and we deduce that this event must have been after the sixth day of creation, when God ‘saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good ’ (Genesis 1:31), and before the Fall of man, recorded in Genesis 3.
Concerning his present abode, it is incorrect to think of Satan as the ‘ruler of Hell’, as the Bible makes no such reference. Rather, Jesus called him ‘the prince of this world’ (John 12:31: 14:30; 16:11), and the Bible also calls him ‘the god of this world’ [or ‘age’] (2 Corinthians 4:4), and ‘the prince of the power of the air’ (Ephesians 2:2). It speaks of Satan ‘going to and fro in the earth, and … walking up and down in it’ (Job 2:2; 1 Peter 5:8), and of his activity ‘in the heavenly places’ [or ‘realms’] (Ephesians 6:11–12).
Why did God create the being we now call Satan?

Question: If God knew that the being we now call Satan6 and some of the other angels and finally Adam and Eve would rebel against Himself, why then did He ‘interrupt’ eternity and proceed with creation in the first place?
Answer: The short answer is that we do not know. However, some observations can be made.
  1. God determined to permit sin, and He did so although He knew what would be the nature of sin, what it would do to His creation, and what He would have to do to save us from it.
  2. God determined to overrule sin for good. This does not mean that God permitted sin in order to bring about good, but rather that God permitted sin to occur for other reasons, and He decreed to overrule it for good.
  3. God determined to make salvation from sin available. This He does on the grounds of the shed blood of His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ (Hebrews 9:14; 1 Peter 1:18–19; 1 John 1:7).
  4. God determined to destroy the works of the devil (1 John 3:8), and to display His own righteousness by the judgment and punishment of the wicked (Acts 17:31; Revelation 20:10–15).
  5. God determined to form that body of believing people known as the Church. This body of individuals, from both Jews and Gentiles, is called ‘the bride of Christ’ (2 Corinthians 11:2; Revelation 19:7); they will share in God’s glory as God’s children, they are called heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, and they will reign with Him for ever and ever (Romans 8:16–17; Revelation 22:5).
Concerning this, God in the Bible issues an invitation. It reads,
‘And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will let him take the water of Life Freely’ (Revelation 22:17).
Quote from: Who was the serpent? - creation.com


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Andrew (RB)

─────────────────────────────────☀
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him
should not perish but have everlasting life.
For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world,

but that the world through Him might be saved.
“He who believes in Him is not condemned;
but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”
(John 3:16-21)
─────────────────────────────────☀
If you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from
the dead, you will be saved.
For it is with your heart that you believe unto righteousness
and it is with your mouth that you confess
your faith and
are saved.
(Romans 10:9-10)
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Old 11-03-2015, 11:58 AM #6258
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

Andrew,

I see what you are saying, but I also see:

The Fall
3 Now the serpent was more crafty than any other beast of the field that the Lord God had made.

He said to the woman, “Did God actually say, ‘You[a] shall not eat of any tree in the garden’?” 2 And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden, 3 but God said, ‘You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.’” 4 But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. 5 For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” 6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise,[b] she took of its fruit and ate, and she also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate. 7 Then the eyes of both were opened, and they knew that they were naked. And they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loincloths.

and

15 The Lord God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to work it and keep it. 16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “You may surely eat of every tree of the garden, 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat[d] of it you shall surely die.”


So, God says don't eat it, because "In the day that you eat of it, you shall surely die".

The phrase "in the day" would only be needed to clarify when you'd die...otherwise, its meaningless....and could have simply been, if you eat it, you won't be immortal, or,one day you'll die, hundreds of years later, or whatever.


So, god says, the day you eat it, you die.

The serpent says, if you eat it, you won't die.

The serpent says you'll know good from evil, "like god"...

That STILL says that, yes, god said don't do it, but. like a child told not to do something, before they have developed a sense of right and wrong....they really can't be held responsible for doing something wrong before they know the difference "like god".

After they eat it, they DO know right from wrong.



Eve eats it, and lives another 900 years or whatever...so, eating it didn't make them drop dead that day, and, eating it did make them know right from wrong.....the serpent told the truth, and god lied?

Or its, again, so badly written that it doesn't translate, and people just interpret it as they see fit, and say it means whatever they think it does?


And its not "knowledge of", as in "protecting them from knowledge of evil" its simple right and wrong...as conceptualized by a bronze aged man at that time in development.


What is it they do when they first "know right from wrong"?

They realize they were naked.

Is it they didn't realize they were naked BEFORE the apple?


They "sew fig leaves together to make loincloths"

So, they know how to sew now too...good apple.



And, I'm not sure if you are familiar with fig leaves or not, but, they would make lousy loincloths. They are very scratchy for example, due to the little hairlike projections, etc.

I don't know what they used for needle and thread either...they just suddenly "Knew" how to make a needle, thread, and to sew.

They did not know what to sew together though, as there were better choices, an odd gap in their newfound knowledge.

IE: They suddenly KNOW right from wrong, and, what this "god like" knowledge tells them, is that they should be embarrassed to be naked. That implies god's knowledge that they now have, was about it was right to be embarrassed about being naked.

So, if they knew they were naked, because they knew they had no clothes, but didn't know it was "wrong", until they HAD knowledge of right and wrong...

They can't be held responsible for KNOWING it was wrong.


and


God only told the man about the tree. The woman was never told, except perhaps by assumption that the man told her, but god never spoke to the woman, that was never documented...and, therefore, may not have even happened.



The real moral of the story is that if you want knowledge, you are arrogant and wanting to be like god. It is a sin. Like Pride. Being proud is a sin....it lead to the fall by Satan....and mankind.

The Few, the Proud, the Marines...god says don't be proud...sorry guys.





Mankind WOULD HAVE been able to live in Paradise forever, if only they had not wanted knowledge.

Knowledge is bad, its why you were kicked out of Paradise, etc.

Knowledge tells you to not be naked.....because god made you naked, knowing it was wrong to be naked.

It is a naughty god.




He makes naked people even though its wrong.

He makes Adam, then, after that, decides he should have a companion.

That means that, originally, gods plan appeared to be to have ONE MAN, Adam....and that's IT.

Then he decides Adam needs a companion...and makes one from him...instead of from dust as he made Adam. (He made the dust too, so, why all the intermediate steps?)

OK, now there's TWO people.


After that, because in the minds of Bronze age men, women ruin everything...Eve does....right on schedule.

So, he originally just wants a naked man...sees the man needs a companion, so, like we'd get a mirror for a caged bird, god nips a bit off the man to make him less lonely...and makes him a naked woman for company. That's a woman's role, to be a companion.

Women exist to be companions for men...to be ruled over by men.

Moral II


Last edited by Teej; 11-03-2015 at 12:13 PM.
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Old 11-03-2015, 02:10 PM #6259
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by RB astro View Post
You see how Satan twists the words of God?
Just enough to cast doubt in people's minds.
Sounds a little like Teej.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teej View Post
15 The Lord God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to work it and keep it. 16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “You may surely eat of every tree of the garden, 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat[d] of it you shall surely die.”

So, God says don't eat it, because "In the day that you eat of it, you shall surely die".

The phrase "in the day" would only be needed to clarify when you'd die...otherwise, its meaningless....and could have simply been, if you eat it, you won't be immortal, or,one day you'll die, hundreds of years later, or whatever.

Eve eats it, and lives another 900 years or whatever...so, eating it didn't make them drop dead that day,

Yes it did, after that no one lived to be 1000 years old.

2 Peter 3:8
"8But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."


They "sew fig leaves together to make loincloths"
So, they know how to sew now too...good apple.

I don't know what they used for needle and thread either...they just suddenly "Knew" how to make a needle, thread, and to sew.

I think they may have already been there for a few years, by then they may have lived in a tent and may have already discovered basket weaving.

They did not know what to sew together though, as there were better choices, an odd gap in their newfound knowledge.

I have little doubt that there were species of plant life on earth that don't exist today, you can't assume that those fig leaves are the same as we have today.

He makes naked people even though its wrong.

Would you prefer that we were covered with hair like the apes?

He makes Adam, then, after that, decides he should have a companion.

Then he decides Adam needs a companion...and makes one from him...instead of from dust as he made Adam. (He made the dust too, so, why all the intermediate steps?)

He didn't make Eve from Adams rib, the word in the original Hebrew says curves. What does that mean? Maybe he took DNA from Adam and slightly resequenced it and cloned Eve, we don't know, I am just guessing at that one.

OK, now there's TWO people.

I know this is controversial among Christians but we do have the sixth day creation, Adam and Eve were created on the eighth day. There were already other people on earth, male and female, I don't know if they were Neanderthals of if they were all the races, but someone was there.

Adam and Eve were to have some special purpose but Satan interfered with Gods plan.


So, he originally just wants a naked man...sees the man needs a companion, so, like we'd get a mirror for a caged bird, god nips a bit off the man to make him less lonely...and makes him a naked woman for company. That's a woman's role, to be a companion.

Women exist to be companions for men...to be ruled over by men.

And to do so naked sometimes.
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Old 11-03-2015, 06:21 PM #6260
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pi R Squared View Post
Sounds a little like Teej.



Alan
LOL

I did study herpetology for a while. Worked for some museums in my yoot.

On the figs, according to the botanists who study this sort of thing, the species of fig has been very consistent, with fossil records and historical records indicating that the fig was one of the earliest domesticated plants.

As it requires a specific spider to fertilize it, its a heavily studied plant...and, yes, the leaves were always prickly...even the ones from 100's of thousands of years ago.


As no one familiar with fig leaves would have actually used them as clothing, and the kinds of people working for the church who write this stuff would not be agricultural sorts, familiar with figs but not the plants...once an artist is forced to cover something, and he used a fig leaf because it stuck in place (ow) on the model....

...it became common to use fig leaves as what you cover that stuff with generally.

When it was time to write genesis, the fig leaf was a common enough way to cover that stuff, so, the writers naturally used them...but added sewing them into loincloths.

If you ever tried to sew leaves together, to make clothing, and had fig leaves on you, you'd see the impracticality of the entire mess.



So, its a shame that having knowledge, like god, meant mostly knowing that 1) you should be embarrassed by your body, 2) how to sew but not to make good textile choices, and not include, say, how to make fire, or a wheel, or telescope or maybe a quantum microscope, etc?

Its also a shame that they were not given the ability to tell right from wrong by god...they had to be tricked into getting it...and then, ironically, are essentially punished for doing something wrong (not listening to god, which, was wrong).


The serpent btw, was supposed to have been possessed by Satan...who slipped into it to do his trickery.

The poor possessed lizard had its legs cut off, as punishment for allowing itself to be possessed, and Satan, once again gets off scott free.


So, god said, eat it and that day you die...and they didn't die.

The snake-to-be said, eat it, and you get knowledge.


They didn't die that day, and they did get knowledge....so, the possessed by Satan proto-snake told the truth, and god lied.



Frankly, a world populated by immortal stupid naked people who don't know right from wrong is a scary thought.

I mean, the idea is that the religion (Judaism) would tell them what was right and wrong was what the founders had in mind,,,but, conceptually, it would have been a nightmare....and there was no back door installed to later have rabbis/priests.

Thank GOD that god's plan included them not knowing right from wrong so they would do something wrong, so he could justify kicking them out of paradise and into the real world.

I mean, lets extrapolate "paradise" out many generations.

Givens:

1) Adam was designed to be immortal, because god's plan was to initially think he was going to be immortal, and then change his mind and make him mortal after he screwed up because he didn't know right from wrong.


2) Eve was an afterthought added to show woman must be subservient to men, and deserve to be. The bible never actually says how long she lives, again, she's just a prop. Bronze age men had not learned to write from a woman's perspective yet....say, including when the first woman on earth died, and not just who her offspring were.


3) Snakes get bad rap, for nothing (I mean, really, punished by being turned into a snake...how's that supposed to make a snake FEEL?). Lizards no longer talk. (A good thing, as they have it all over on the poor snakes...they'd never shut up about it)


4) Initial plan is for Adam to run around stupid and naked, forever and ever, as an immortal naked stupid guy. This was a very important project for god, and he had a falling out with pre-Satan over it...as the angels, etc, had to bow down to the stupid naked guy..and 1/3 were against that. IE: 2/3 of the heavenly population was in favor of an immortal stupid naked guy to bow down to...and 1/3 was so against it they'd go to hell over it.


5) Gods plan for Adam was expanded, as god, according to his plan, changed his mind, and decided that a companion was needed, adding Eve from a spare rib, etc. (Note - God first tried to get the immortal stupid naked guy to choose an animal as his companion, after realizing a companion was needed in the first place...but, it didn't take...and Eve was the last resort when the animal thing didn't pan out. Moral = Animals are preferable to humans as companions to man, woman humans are what you get when out of options/ideas)


6) NEW plan - Now that he gave Adam a companion, one that he CAN breed with, NOW they are told be fruitful and multiply....(Adam of course, would have just been Adam, for all eternity...)


7) So we have beings that are immortal, and are told to breed....like rabbits.


8) The successive generations of dumb naked immortal rabbits would over populate the earth, as none would die....and they'd keep being fruitful.


9) The garden of eden is described as being between some known rivers in the land of cush...so, it was a middle eastern paradise, a real geographical place, with rivers as described borders to locate it. As the population grew, eventually, some would eventually not FIT into "the garden". Fights might break out to get back in, but, eventually, the more immortal offspring, the less room.


10) If not knowing right from wrong would make killing ok, as a solution, being immortal would make them killing each other impossible, and having no knowledge would keep them from coming up with a plan to compensate or adjust/work out a way to not progressively pack like immortal dumb naked sardines, they'd eventually be a planet of naked really hungry stupid immortal sardines.


11) According to studies, prenatal stress has an influence of a fetus's ***uality. In rats and mice for example, starving the parents or otherwise stressing them, tends to increase the percentage of homo***ual offspring. It natures way of controlling the population when predation and resources are a limiting factor. This would probably lead to a planet completely covered in a mass of immortal homo$exual fruitfulness.


12) When god wanted them to be fruit full, he obviously meant, as part of his plan, for ALL of them to eventually be fruits...or the planet's surface would simply run out of room.


13) This would jive with what god initially wanted, which was one immortal dumb naked guy to watch, and make angels bow down to, but adds a lot more of them, so no matter where you look, there's millions of immortal dumb naked guys, with ~ 2/3 of all angels bowing down to them...and, if he could ignore all the icky girls in the way...the way he does in most of the bible, he should be quite happy with the results.




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Old 11-04-2015, 02:55 PM #6261
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
So, God says don't eat it, because "In the day that you eat of it, you shall surely die".

The phrase "in the day" would only be needed to clarify when you'd die...otherwise, its meaningless....and could have simply been, if you eat it, you won't be immortal, or,one day you'll die, hundreds of years later, or whatever.

Eve eats it, and lives another 900 years or whatever...so, eating it didn't make them drop dead that day,

Yes it did, after that no one lived to be 1000 years old.

2 Peter 3:8
"8But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."
@ Alan

I believe this is more of a issue of Hebrew verb tenses. More thought for thought translations like NIV say -

but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die." - Genesis 2:17 NIV

While a more literal word for word translation like NASB says

but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die." - Genesis 2:17 NASB

Quote:
The Hebrew is, literally, die-die (muwth-muwth) with two different verb tenses (dying and die), which can be translated as “surely die” or “dying you shall die.” This indicates the beginning of dying, an ingressive sense, which finally culminates with death.
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Old 11-04-2015, 03:58 PM #6262
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...imination-law/

I'm curious what your thoughts on this might be?

Personally while I'm all for non discrimination, I do think some aspects of our lives should be governed by the physical realities of our anatomies. Whatever genitalia you're sporting, that's the bathroom/locker room you should head to.

Alternatively, uni$ex bathrooms and locker rooms for all. Though I don't think that will go over well with many many more people.

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Old 11-04-2015, 04:39 PM #6263
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by InfinitusEquitas View Post
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...imination-law/

I'm curious what your thoughts on this might be?

Personally while I'm all for non discrimination, I do think some aspects of our lives should be governed by the physical realities of our anatomies. Whatever genitalia you're sporting, that's the bathroom/locker room you should head to.

Alternatively, uni$ex bathrooms and locker rooms for all. Though I don't think that will go over well with many many more people.
I agree completely, keep them separate, maybe some places could voluntarily have a third bathroom or locker room that anyone can use, I guess that would be ok as long as it's not required.

Maybe we should expand the LGBT community to include Republicans and Democrats, LGBTRD. Now that I think about it maybe Republicans and Democrats should also have separate bathrooms.

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Old 11-04-2015, 04:58 PM #6264
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Pi R Squared View Post
I agree completely, keep them separate, maybe some places could voluntarily have a third bathroom or locker room that anyone can use, I guess that would be ok as long as it's not required.

Maybe we should expand the LGBT community to include Republicans and Democrats, LGBTRD.

Now that I think about it maybe Republicans and Democrats should also have separate bathrooms.

Alan
LOL

Good idea actually. The closeted gay republicans (Water closeted gay republicans?) trying to entice other gays into the stalls kind of skeeves out a lot of Democrats.





On one hand, its kind of silly that some cultures think a child seeing a boob or crotch will somehow damage them.

Those kids on the National Geographic shows seem OK...and everyone is running about naked.

Obviously, well, to me at least, older ones should leave the younger ones alone...but kids of the same age have been "playing doctor" etc, for a very long time...its pretty normal, and, as far as we know, does no damage.


We MAKE IT a giant issue of course. OUR culture is very prudish, and thinks some bady parts need to be covered up. Some cultures, in the middle east for example, want even more covered than we do, and we see THEIR culture as ridiculously concerned with an exposed mouth...as surely THAT should be OK to see.

Other cultures see OUR preoccupation with nipples as rediculous, as surely THAT should be OK to see....

...and so forth.

So, in some countries, there are uni*** bathrooms, etc.

We have boys/girls separate...because we are more prudish than they are.

Going UNI for all restrooms and locker rooms would solve the entire problem. Otherwise, every building will need a half dozen different types of restroom, and those door icons will get very confusing.





















If someone could explain why a kid seeing a girls mouth is damaging to the child...or other body part...that would be different.

Its more or less random, depending on what culture you are used to, as to what can show, or not.

If RAISED to feel ashamed of her mouth, of course, a girl would feel embarrassed for anyone, especially a boy, to see her mouth.



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Old 11-04-2015, 05:23 PM #6265
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Ironically the thing that a lot of people find to be odd with regards to our prudish culture, are stall gaps.

Seriously travel to most other developed nations, and you can actually have privacy in your stall.
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Old 11-04-2015, 05:33 PM #6266
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by InfinitusEquitas View Post
Ironically the thing that a lot of people find to be odd with regards to our prudish culture, are stall gaps.

Seriously travel to most other developed nations, and you can actually have privacy in your stall.
Apparently, in the US at least, they recommend that stalls have gaps to REDUCE privacy in workplaces. They want to discourage employees from sleeping in there or whatever, like if they are Republicans and want to tap dance their way into your heart (Pants?).

That way, if they don't feel like they have enough privacy, they might not try to do anything that requires more privacy.......and, if supposed to be working, they might return to other work more quickly....and if shopping, etc, get back out and leave the restrooms available to others, buy more, etc.






* Disclaimer - Some Democrats are also gay. Its not just Republicans. The Republicans are just the ones who are supposed to hate gays, so they have to be water closet gays...or lose their support/voting base.

Sort of like a republican in public office has to resort to public orifice.

That way, they can be in the closet, and still do guys anyway.


A democrat on the other hand, say, Jim McGreevy, could be in the closet, and Governor of NJ...and just get his BF a gov job, and an apartment...no need for the airport restroom tap dancing routine.

He was a crook though, and was about to be up on charges for corruption, etc, so he played the "I'm resigning because you found out I was gay" card...before they impeached him, for corruption, etc.

McGreevy's seminary school apparently did a great job on his moral compass...he probably WENT to seminary school to go into the clergy because that's what religious gay guys do, gravitate towards guys, and try to fight it with faith, but, became a politician, because that's what dishonest people gravitate towards, and he liked money even more than he did guys, but found a career involving his love of both.

Bass Turd.





So male dems can have a BF and treat them like a GF...but a male repub can't HAVE a BF...no one can know....so, off to the airport they go...

...for their flights of fancy.




So those gay old republican politicians are not really that creepy, they're just drawn (to airport restrooms) that way.

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Old 11-04-2015, 06:00 PM #6267
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Teej View Post
Apparently, in the US at least, they recommend that stalls have gaps to REDUCE privacy in workplaces. They want to discourage employees from sleeping in there or whatever, like if they are Republicans and want to tap dance their way into your heart (Pants?).

That way, if they don't feel like they have enough privacy, they might not try to do anything that requires more privacy.......and, if supposed to be working, they might return to other work more quickly....and if shopping, etc, get back out and leave the restrooms available to others, buy more, etc.

Yeah... from a public sanitation standpoint the argument has been made for half size stalls, mostly to reduce people doing drugs there.

This... this makes me uncomfortable...



I suppose it's still way better than the squat toilets with no dividers at all. I've see that, and there I draw the line.
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Old 11-04-2015, 06:30 PM #6268
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

I'm still working on how saying they'll die the day they touch the apple, means they will not die when they touch it, but will start dying, and it could take almost a thousand years to finish? I mean, its GOD....he can't make you die faster than that? That's his best shot?

Again - If what god WOULD HAVE SAID, if articulate and not a bronze age man for example, was that if Adam was immortal, and if he touched the apple, he would gradually become mortal, and, one day, die of old age, nine centuries later....after an insane and unmatched period involving centuries of continuous reproductive frenzy.






Obviously, the hebrew would be in a future tense, because it refers to a hypothetical future time, when and if they touched the apple...as in, if one day you do it, that's the day you die.

Of course, one of the problems when plagiarizing creation myths from other cultures, and trying to combine what you feel are the best parts for YOUR creation myth, is that sometimes, in the bronze age for example, the position of "Continuity Editor" and other modern conveniences, concordia, etc, were not available yet.

That means that taking a story where you're KILLED by the apple, and mixing it with a story where you are not, but are banished from a paradise, requires some finesse...in that you don't want to have the protagonist killed, and THEN banished.

If too distracted by making sure the morals that woman is to be subservient and knowledge is bad are really emphasized, you can miss little details like that...unless you're omniscient or something.



Also, again....Adam was supposed to be immortal....and, alone, forever, and never breed....as the story is clear that god only made eve after he saw Adam needed a companion...and the animals didn't cut it.

There was not going to be a "Human Race"....just Adam...and the other animals.

AFTER eve was made, THEN they were supposed to be fruitful and multiply.

To me at least, that's a really weird plot twist.



It WOULD explain all the misogyny by god throughout the bibles though....she ruined EVERYTHING.

And he's been getting even ever since.


It DOESN'T explain the alleged plan for every one, the plan that's supposed to apply to them before they're even born.

The human race appears to have been an accident...god wanted an immortal dumb naked Adam, and it got out of control, and he seemed to have just aborted the entire mission.

Other mythologies DO have perhaps their version of Adam working it out with the critters and not needing Eve though, so we get Minotaurs, and Centaurs, and Satyrs, etc.






I like the evolutionary version better, where we are a product of natural selection, and not some random accident by god.


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Old 12-12-2015, 07:42 AM #6269
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Take a bite out of this apple, will ya....



Before someone accuses me of being a Bible thumper, let it be known I am very uncomfortable with most, if not all religions... yet..... If you can tolerate being dragged into religious world views through what some may see as science high-jacked, here's another video which I believe explains how an NDE works where some can have memories after their brain has ceased functioning enough to even dream:

https://youtu.be/rlBO0Y9GJhk

Again, let me explain I am not a religious individual! I dislike religion! But, I cannot deny the spirit I see which exists in all of us. The word "spirit" to mean a consciousness which is timeless and continues to exist beyond death. To me, this is all simply a part of the physics of the reality we are living in, religion having claimed it to itself for many reasons, one of the worst of them, for others to control us and through that feed off of our hard earned money.

I think this video is worth a watch too, I don't like the religious aspect of it but I cannot deny it either:

Sure, you can pick some of it apart, but other portions, the most important ones, I don't see as being so easily cast aside. Of course, you can if you want, we can deny or believe anything we want as human beings, that's what is so stupid and awesome about us at the same time, through this we create the world view we wish to have and through that, see the world as we wish it, have habituated it to be, or perhaps, how it really is to the limits of our ability to see, if we can set aside our wishful thinking and or bias enough to catch a glimpse.
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Useless troll fighting.

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Old 12-12-2015, 03:37 PM #6270
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Why would you take the experience of a damaged/hallucinating brain as evidence? And why is that evidence more valuable to you than the experience of an undamaged brain?
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Old 12-12-2015, 04:46 PM #6271
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Alaskan why the hell did you revive this thread?
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Old 12-12-2015, 08:37 PM #6272
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

I have read about NDE's and I semi jokingly call it the soft shutdown, wishfully thinking maybe our designer gave us this, but it's just a dying brain dreaming.

Anyway it's always the preachers son who has the hell dream, because he knows he's a sinner and fear of hell has been preached at him all his life.

Oh another thing I read, people in operating rooms who have technically died and been revived tell stories about seeing themselves floating and how they could see the surgeon and others, well one surgeon who operates on ill people often wrote in large print messages on the tops of the operating room lights....none of his NDE's ever said anything about his hidden messages, they said they saw him and the lights and others, but never the test messages even though they floated on the ceiling watching.


This is not the one I read but something like it.
http://www.newser.com/story/103856/h...periences.html


Oh, 1 more test of my own, my wife passed in 2009 from lung cancer, we knew she was terminal months in advance.

Anyway she loved me very much and promised me that she would haunt me and I told her that I wanted her to do it any way she could.
It's been 6 years and I have not been visited even once that I know of.
I have had dreams but not of visits, they are me trying to get home to her and having never ending troubles, a typical struggle dream.

There is a bible passage that basically says any visits from spirits are false spirits and not to be trusted, I understand the wisdom and comfort built into this for grieving people, it's telling you that it's ok to let go, and that you should let go or be fooled by demons.

BTW: I was right there with her when she passed, you know when there is no eye movement that the brain is not awake, I won't give all the details other than it all took about 30 seconds as she had a major vessel burst in her lung.

Anyway if there had been a spirit in the room leaving her body that could interact with me she would have.

I don't mind talking about this and I don't want to upset anyone, I'm just sharing this for informational purposes.
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Last edited by RedCowboy; 12-12-2015 at 10:02 PM.
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