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Old 11-01-2015, 09:56 PM #6241
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

This remark might be a bit simple minded, but maybe it really is this smple, my thought which just came to mind while working above 70N lattitude in the arctic right now punching in text on my cell phone is that religious belief systems are too oft like a warm blanket to snuggle up in all comfy to isolate one from the cold winds of reality. That said, they can do this well and give comfort to the masses.


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Old 11-01-2015, 11:12 PM #6242
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by VisibleGreen View Post
Wrong. This thread breaks virtually every rule on this forum so no Mr. Warne this thread does not belong here.
That is more than just a little melodramatic. To which rules we're you referring, specifically?

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Old 11-01-2015, 11:41 PM #6243
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Twarne why did you feel the need to paste a large section of the rules in your post rather than a link?
Are you trying to be like Teej?

Skimmed a bit of the rules:
§ Post Content that is implicitly or explicitly offensive, such as Content that engages in, endorses or promotes racism, bigotry, discrimination, hatred or physical harm of any kind against any group or individual.

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§ Promote or endorses false or misleading information or illegal activities or conduct that is abusive, threatening, obscene, defamatory or libelous.

I will thoroughly read it at a later time and discuss it then.
Upon reading a bit it all really seems to focus more so on business related incidents rather than actual members of the forum itself.

Last edited by VisibleGreen; 11-01-2015 at 11:53 PM.
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Old 11-01-2015, 11:52 PM #6244
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by VisibleGreen View Post
Twarne why did you feel the need to paste a large section of the rules in your post rather than a link?
Are you trying to be like Teej?
LOL

That's where the expression "WWTJD?" came from of course.




I think he's just making a point about blanket statements, that as Alaskan pointed out, might feel snuggly to the poster of them, but, may be like the Emperor's Clothes.

IE: Breaking all the rules, w/o actually breaking any.



The Emperor may have been tricked into thinking he's got a nice snuggly blankie, but, the people watching him parade by are wondering if he knows he's naked.

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Old 11-01-2015, 11:54 PM #6245
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by APEX1 View Post
I'm inclined to agree with green on this! This thread seems like it brings out the worst in people just like............???
Ironically, it seems to bring out the worst in those who feel that anything in conflict with their worldview is off limits, and, if someone says something they feel is in conflict, they want to issue a fatwah.

Hopefully, one day, we will evolve to the point where enough people can hold two conflicting ideas in their head at the same time, to overcome the current logjamb.

Until then, some will actually continue to actually feel personally attacked if someone disagrees with them and explains why....instead of being able to listen to a reason they might be wrong without getting a migraine, etc.

I can listen to why I might be wrong, and have no symptoms at all. I may even change my mind if the evidence is compelling...and, sometimes it is, and, I do.

Those who get symptoms from other opinions, well, they are not really ready to enter into a discussion with an exchange of ideas. Monologues they deliver to a receptive audience, for example, would be best.

As this is a discussion about what we all believe, statements as to what we believe are ALL CORRECT.

Its OUR beliefs...so, there's no wrong answer.


The discussion can include one party asking another party to explain WHY they feel the way they do/believe what they believe.....and, that party can not answer, as Visible Green chose not to disclose what religion he is for example when asked, that's his right.

A party can chose to state their religion, and say why they believe what they believe if they want to.

We can't say they don't believe something...but might say why we could not believe what they do.




Last edited by Teej; 11-02-2015 at 12:12 AM.
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Old 11-02-2015, 12:18 AM #6246
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

which is why I said what I said me on the other hand have no beliefs except mine! therefore non of this will bring out "the worst in me" let that sink in for a minute lol It'd be nice if everyone was able to just talk... And you couldn't be more right teej. when you question someone's belief it's like you just killed they're cat! Which brings me back to greens point! I'm willing to bet this thread have stopped people from talking to each other and killed friendships! but that's non of my business
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Old 11-02-2015, 12:43 AM #6247
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by APEX1 View Post
which is why I said what I said me on the other hand have no beliefs except mine! therefore non of this will bring out "the worst in me" let that sink in for a minute lol It'd be nice if everyone was able to just talk... And you couldn't be more right teej. when you question someone's belief it's like you just killed they're cat! Which brings me back to greens point! I'm willing to bet this thread have stopped people from talking to each other and killed friendships! but that's non of my business
I hope not.

That is a consequence when two people forget that the other guy can have many many opinions that are different, and, yet, be a great guy.

I have friends who are very religious, and still act as deacons, pastors, etc, but who CAN hold opposing viewpoints in perspective, and CAN be disagreed with w/o their head's exploding.

So, we, after years, do know how we feel, and why...and reach an understanding that will not interfere with charity work, fishing or whitewater runs or whatever we ALSO do.

If you end a friendship because you can't agree on EVERYTHING, you either end up only being with like-minded people who reinforce each other's worldviews and make them all feel like they all live in a world that they understand...

...or you end up pretty lonely.


I prefer to meet people who feel differently, as I am then exposed to other viewpoints...viewpoints I would never have been able to consider if I'd remained in ideological isolation.

Even people I vehemently disagree with, such as white supremacists and so forth, ALSO have other sides.

You never know what you can learn if you keep an open mind. Some people just come from a totally different world, and if they share it with you, you can grow as a person, even if you still disagree with them, you can learn to see the world through their eyes, and at least understand where they are coming from.

People are not evil by nature, they are kind and compassionate.

Some ACT evil, because they were raised to understand the world differently.

If raised differently, without prejudices, etc, they would not treat those they were taught to hate any differently than anyone else.

It IS hard to "unraise them" though, and, that's a shame.....only some might change their worldview, and, typically, only if removed from the group that was reinforcing the stereotypes, etc.

I make a POINT of correcting slurs, etc. If I don't, there's an implicit agreement with the sentiment. Too often, no one says anything, and the slur-er, assumes everyone feels as he does.

When enough people act like he's out of line, he may at least CONSIDER that he might not be a majority...or as much as he thought.

He WILL typically refer to corrections as "Political Correctness" which is prejudiced-speak for appeasing the N-ers, etc...IE: Pretending the other group is NOT smelly or stupid so as not to "get in trouble".

Sometimes though, they meet enough Dr. Tysons, etc, to figure at least SOME exceptions must exist....and the slippery slope is thresholded.






So, humans are an incredible species. One day, we will all get along.

I'll probably be long dead (Stop cheering... ), but, one day.


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Old 11-02-2015, 03:12 AM #6248
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

The TOU has changed completely since I last read it. Basically there isn't much to prevent us from acting like total animals in other threads.

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Old 11-02-2015, 06:25 AM #6249
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teej View Post
So, humans are an incredible species. One day, we will all get along.

I'll probably be long dead (Stop cheering... ), but, one day.

Teej, that day is fast approaching, unfortunately it will be during the rule of the antichrist, where he will unite the world under the Beast System and there'll be a false peace for three and a half years.
You won't want to be around when The Tribulation starts.
It's not until Jesus returns that we will see True Peace on the earth, the kind you and I long for.


The Day of the Lord


But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

1 Thessalonians 5:1-11

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For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world,

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but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”
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Old 11-02-2015, 12:52 PM #6250
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by RB astro View Post
Teej, that day is fast approaching, unfortunately it will be during the rule of the antichrist, where he will unite the world under the Beast System and there'll be a false peace for three and a half years.
You won't want to be around when The Tribulation starts.
It's not until Jesus returns that we will see True Peace on the earth, the kind you and I long for.


The Day of the Lord


But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

1 Thessalonians 5:1-11

RB









I am unfamiliar with the "Beast System".

You are describing something akin to a storm with an eye, a calm period in the middle of it....so there's turmoil, calm, and then turmoil again.

You also know how it ends, with the good guys winning.

You'd think the bad guys would have access to this information, and not bother?

The above essentially describes Satan as a god, an immortal who is in control of the earth.

He either knows god is more powerful that he is, or, that god is invincible, and omnipotent, or, that, going the other way, god is weaker than he is, and beatable....and not omnipotent.

So, if planning an attack on God, he would know god knew all, being omnipotent and omniscient, etc, and would know his every step...so there would be no strategy that would work, as god would know exactly what and when he was going to do....

...or, he'd know that god was not omniscient, and, that god would NOT know what he was up to.


According to your intel, Satan IS planning an attack though, so let's take that as a given.


That implies that he thinks he can win...or, that he is stupendously stupid.

God's word, the bibles, etc, all describe Satan as devious and clever, easily able to outsmart mere mortals, and steal their souls.

So, let's assume Satan is not stupid, and, that he's always portrayed as more of an evil genius.


Would anyone other than a staggeringly stupid god, think he could WIN, when its WRITTEN that he will attack in the following fashion, and then lose, and be tortured forever, afterwards?


So, since Satan is not considered stupid, at all, we have to consider at least that HE THINKS he can win if he goes for it, despite it being already written that he fails.


THAT implies he thinks the writing is wrong. He believes that god is not omnipotent, or omniscient, and, that HE can beat god.

We also know, according to the scriptures, that Satan was an angel, the top dog actually in that angelic world. We also know that he was god's FAVORITE angel...

These two KNEW EACH OTHER.

So, according to the scriptures, someone who KNEW god, personally, and had a good rapport, and, someone who GOD preferred, was a bad apple...and, he knew god, and, decided to reject him.

If god WAS wonderful and all that, why would AN ANGEL, and angel god himself is said to have placed at the top of the other angels....not go along with ANYTHING god wanted him to do?

There are people on earth for example who never met god, except on mold stains or taco's etc, who would do anything they thought god told them to do...on faith.

Someone who didn't need to have faith, because he KNEW GOD, would not do the same as a person on earth.


Wow.

If you KNOW god, apparently, you run and gather an army to fight him?


You'd then fight, KNOWING that god is invincible, and when and how you will lose?

Again, a stupid Satan who can't read the book of prophesies, or have it read to him at least...might explain that.


A clever and devious Satan, an Arch Angel, is unlikely to be in any hurry to take an eternal dip in the lake of fire, etc.


So, that casts doubt on either god being as cool a dude as his propaganda unit says he is (The Church invented the term actually), or, Satan being who they say HE is.



You are essentially saying that SATAN, not god, rules the world. So, people should pray to Satan, as he's the one in charge?

You have implied that prayers are answered, but, that means they are answered by Satan, as he's in charge of what happens on earth.

You imply that Satan is already in charge of the earth, and, if he does NOTHING, it simply stays that way...but, if he attacks god, then he gets heaven too? He already rules earth you said. WHY would he rock that boat, if its TRUE that he loses and is cast into a lake of fire?


If Jesus was here once already...why does he have to come AGAIN? Didn't he already allow himself to be executed by the Romans, to forgive everyone who descended from Noah's family, for the prohibited gaining of knowledge by Noah's ancestors?

They got knowledge, and must be punished for it, because knowledge was a bad thing obviously, or god would WANT them to have it.

All of their descendants must also be punished of course....with painful births and having to work for a living.

So, Jesus came, allowed the Romans to execute him, so that that sin of their ancestors getting knowledge could be forgiven.

Painful births and having to work for a living continued though, so, the gaining of knowledge (Original sin) was "Forgiven", but the punishment for it continued.

That seems unfair.

It also sounds a lot unlike forgiveness.


So, now he's supposed to come back, again.

He was supposed to have DIED for us getting knowledge, to forgive us for it. If he comes back, he didn't DIE...it was just an act essentially.

If he DID die, and is (IS) god, then god was dead. If god was NOT dead, then no one died to forgive us for getting knowledge.


Its all very confusing.


Could you explain it without quoting scriptures? The scriptures are so ambiguous and conflicting, its impossible to make sense of and still consider all of it equally valid.


You're kind of saying that Satan might be the good guy here.


Is that what you are trying to say?

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Old 11-02-2015, 01:55 PM #6251
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Teej View Post
Is that what you are trying to say?
No it's not what I'm saying.

(Also may I say I do enjoy debating with you immensely, although it is sometimes hard to keep up with all the points you raise all at once).

I am saying that Satan was the high angel that was in God's presence and he knew God and he knew that God was The God, the one who created not only him but everything in the universe.
Satan though, as you know, had immense pride and assumed he can be above God.
That led to his downfall and was cast out, along with a third of the angels that followed him.
Realising he could never again be in the position of God's high angel and have the position he once held in heaven he despised God, his creator and does everything he can to hurt and rebel against God, the Most High.
Satan also deeply despises humans because we are made in God's image.

By tempting Eve and subsequently Adam, he gained control of this world because they disobeyed God's only commandment and thus they allowed Sin into this world, in other words Satan now has temporary control of the earth.
He, in effect has become the god of this world, Not God the Most High, just god in terms of : people now have sin in their lives and unless they are born again, Satan is their god.
In order to reunite humanity with the true God, Jesus came in bodily form to die for us and regain all those that believe in Him.
He paid the price for death by dying and rose again on the third day because He was sinless so death could not hold Him.

That very same act is passed on to every believer through the precious blood of Jesus, that once you believe and call upon the Name of Jesus, you too will gain eternal life and death will not have the power to hold you.
Yes physical death comes to all of us, but not spiritual death, we live forever in God's presence.

The people who reject Jesus are separated from God and are cast out along with Satan and his angels, this is the second death, forever separated from The Light which is God.

God is a righteous God and He must judge Sin.

It is analogous to your courtroom scenario but God is the Judge, He is not the one to be judged, you can't say to Him that this is not fair, that all this is not fair. If you reject God you will be given over to Satan, the god of the dead.
We are the sinners, we are the accused, you won't be able to plead your case and talk your way out, we are already guilty.
You need to ask for forgiveness NOW, in Jesus' name, while there's still time to repent.
Once you die it's too late my dear friend, I'm pleading with you.

RB
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─────────────────────────────────☀
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him
should not perish but have everlasting life.
For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world,

but that the world through Him might be saved.
“He who believes in Him is not condemned;
but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”
(John 3:16-21)
─────────────────────────────────☀
If you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from
the dead, you will be saved.
For it is with your heart that you believe unto righteousness
and it is with your mouth that you confess
your faith and
are saved.
(Romans 10:9-10)
─────────────────────────────────☀
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Old 11-02-2015, 02:19 PM #6252
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

Andrew,

OK, but why did a third of the angels go with Satan?

What was their beef with the god?

Satan was described as thinking he was better than god, but, he was also god's favorite...and why god would favor someone that prideful and hateful seems odd, given how he know what would happen to satan, and he STILL put him over the other angels?

Man was described as made in GOD's image. IE: God looks like a man.

The angels are always portrayed as looking like men, maybe with giant wings, wee wings, halos, etc...but as men with those mutations.


So, that's what EVERYONE looked like.

Then there's the story about the angels having to bow to the humans...that seems cruel. They are supernatural beings with powers far above that of mortal men...why make them pretend to be lower in the food chain.

It makes it seem like god was demanding that the angels worship humans?


Satan rebelled, demanding freedom of religion? A third of the other angels decided they too wanted freedom?




If Jesus was not actually able to die, because he was not human, because humans were all born with original sin, that means Mary was too.

Noah and his family inherited the original sin from Adam/Eve's descendants.


So, Jesus was born with original sin, or, he was not human.

If not human, he didn't die.

If he didn't die, as his death was supposed to forgive all of the humans for the sin of their ancestors, then, he didn't die for that sin.

If we WERE forgiven for that sin, why are births still painful, and why do we still have to earn our living by the sweat of our brows?

Doesn't forgiveness also include the end of the punishment for it?


IE: You broke the lawn mower I lent you. (Punch in face for breaking lawn mower)

I'm sorry I broke your lawn mower. I won't break any more lawn mowers.

OK, I forgive you. (Punches him in face again, then punches the guys kids faces, his wife's face, the faces of the grand chilren...the great grandchildren...

He waits for great great grand children to be born, and punches THEM in the face.


Hey, I thought you FORGAVE me for breaking your lawnmower?

I DID. (Keeps punching everyone everborn)


Why are you punching my descendants for me breaking your lawn mower? I SAID I was sorry, you SAID you forgave me...but you keep punching my kids and their kids kids in the face....?





It doesn't seem right, does it?

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Old 11-02-2015, 03:02 PM #6253
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Teej great points you bring up, but with respect, you also need to think on the spiritual level too.
If you keep putting things just on a natural level you won't understand.
The Bible says "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."
Now I know you don't worship Him but to understand my points we need to think a little on the spiritual and not just in the worldly/physical.

You can't say why does birth still hurt, Sin has not been eradicated from this world, if you want to blame then blame the one who brought sin into this world, Satan.
God is in the eternal, we are still living in the world so we have not faced the judgement yet, we are experiencing the consequences of sin because this world is not the perfect world that God created originally.
This is the fallen world and until we die we are in our sinful state, yet those that accept Christ gain forgiveness from the judgement reserved for Satan and his angels.
We don't get our reward until we pass from this life onto eternal life.
What we do have is a peace that passes all understanding to endure this world till we die and go to be with the Lord.
We gain the strength to go through the valley of the shadow of death yet fear no evil. Death will not hold fear over us.

Now Jesus was born as a human, to endure and go through all the temptations and pain we go through, so that He can feel our pain, He can sympathise with us when we call out to Him for strength, because He has been through it.
He was also God in the flesh, the second person of the Trinity, He was born through Mary, who was a virgin at the time, conceived by The Holy spirit.
See He was both Human and Godly at the same time.
Thus only He was uniquely qualified to pay for all our sins, it's a free gift He gives to all, but a gift is not a gift unless it's accepted by the receiver, you and I.
If you don't accept His gift you don't gain eternal life and the ability to escape the second death, spiritual death.
Each of us will die physically , but the ones who accept Christ escape the eternal death, they gain eternal life separated from sin.
The ones that reject, die physically with their sins and unfortunately are cast out with Satan.

BTW Mary and Joseph got married and had other children, Mary did not stay a virgin, Jesus, the bible says, had brothers and sisters but He was the only one who was sinless because His Father was God the Father, the first person in the trinity Godhead.
God (Jesus) literally came down to earth in bodily form with one mission, to teach us the truth, that He is God, that He created us and that only He could redeem us from the sin which was introduced to this world through Satan, by dying and raising again on the third day, paying for our sins because He loved us so much.
He endured human death and was raised again by God the Father, justified and triumphant over Satan.
And He will return to claim those that belong to Him.

The bible doesn't say why one third followed Satan, we assume they too were deceived and/or had the same pride as Satan.

Pride is the downfall of Satan and all his followers, be it man or angel.
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should not perish but have everlasting life.
For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world,

but that the world through Him might be saved.
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but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
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Old 11-02-2015, 03:08 PM #6254
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

Andrew,

While I'm thinking about this...

Why is ONLY the "First Sin", essentially the sin of people, made to NOT KNOW RIGHT FROM WRONG, and WITHOUT KNOWLEDGE...

....being tricked by a talking snake, that god put there, next to the tree that god put there, into eating a fruit god put there, that gave them knowledge.


AFTER they ate the apple...THEN they knew right from wrong, and that they had done something wrong.

So, essentially, the original sin was tricking people who didn't know right from wrong into doing something wrong....and then punishing their descendants for all eternity?

The Penalty for the first MURDER was to be marked so no one would harm the murderer.

The penalty for being tricked into eating an apple was punishment of everyone else who ever lived?

Snakes get no punishment...just humans who were made to not know right from wrong?


Why PUT the tree there in the first place? If its to challenge them, the test would need to be PRECEDED by first allowing them to know right from wrong at least...otherwise, what's being tested?

Kids don't, as a rule, do what their parent's tell them. The youngest of them, the ones who do not yet know right from wrong, are not punished for things they cannot know were bad.

If an infant throws up on you, you don't PUNISH it.

Before a certain level of maturity, a child told to not eat a cookie, WILL eat the cookie, because they have no concept of why NOT to.


If god MADE them HAVE TO eat the apple TO get past that, its like telling a 1 year old they can't have the pacifier, and then putting in within their grasp...and spanking them for grabbing it....and then spanking their children and so forth, forever?

Its like punishing the great grandkids of some kid who a stranger tricked into taking candy, after the parents said not to take candy from strangers.

Etc.

Either they didn't need the apple, and knew right from wrong, making the story have no point at all, or, god is more sinister than you think.



Could you expand upon the logic of that?

Last edited by Teej; 11-02-2015 at 03:19 PM.
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Old 11-02-2015, 03:56 PM #6255
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

I don't even know where to begin or if I should even say anything, I don't have time to address everything so I'll pick a few things. Satan isn't an angel, he is a cherubim. The cherubim, the seraphim, as well as the four beings that guard the throne of God are each a different race than the Angels, they do have wings, and they are higher up the food chain than the Angels. The Angels are a different race that look similar to us and they don't have wings.

Teej do you know what a revolution is? Satan was a great and popular leader who created a civil war, he tried to overthrow God and replace him. It wasn't 1/3rd of the Angels that followed him, it was 1/3rd of all the people, people like you or me, and some of the Angels too. That war still continues today, you might say that Satan is leading an insurgency. We all know from wars and Revolutions here on earth that just because someone is outgunned, it doesn't mean they are defeated. Look what has happened in Iraq and they are still battling the Taliban in Afghanistan after 14 years.

Teej it wasn't a talking snake, it was a serpent of some kind though, and it was punished by being turned into a snake, go back and read it again. There is also another ancient Hebrew text that may have been written by Moses that didn't make it into the bible that tells a little more about what may have happened. The serpent could talk as could some other animals, Satan one day visited the serpent and said something like "I have heard thou art the greatest of all the creatures in the garden and I have come to make thy aquaintance" you can imagine how things went bad from there.

I don't want to create more controversy but there are books that were removed from the Protestant bibles in the early 1800's that we refer to as apocrypha that should not have been removed, the book I am referring to is not one of them. There is another much larger group of books called pseudepigrapha, some of these were studied by early Christians and should still be.

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Old 11-02-2015, 05:44 PM #6256
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

Alan,

OK, good points to consider.

So, the serpent was punished by being tuned into a snake....OK. Sounds brutal. I guess snakes are being punished by being snakes to start with? Did they use to all be serpents and not snakes, or were there still serpents that were not snakes....? Did snakes use to be, say, lizards, who tricked people into doing something for god, and then get turned into snakes as punishment?

Anyway, I got it, going from being a serpent to a snake is punishment for tricking stupid people into being smart....the original sin for which all of mankind is still being punished...even though Jesus died to forgive us for it.



I did know about the archangels being a different race of supernatural angel-like beings, but, arch angel is like arch enemy...arch just implies the top of the heap.

The bible being edited down, and parts of the stories being missing, etc, is also familiar to me. The reason the parts were removed of course, was that the biblical scholars at the time considered them to not be supported well enough to include, and/or unpopular enough with whoever was paying to have the scribes write it all. Much of what went into the storage bin was around the council of Nicea for example. They also burned all the scriptures they disagreed with. They missed some, there were no spreadsheets to keep track of it all back then...but if they could have, they'd have burned those too.

A lot of the present errors and stories that don't quite make sense are due to them trying to fill in missing gaps with less objectionable material, etc.



So, who was it who tricked the talking SERPENT into tricking Eve, into eating of the forbidden knowledge?

Satan was already fallen, to EDEN, by the time the apples were ripe? Why in the world would Satan be ALLOWED into the Garden of Eden?

Why did he need to trick a serpent into convincing a dumb naked girl who didn't know right from wrong into doing something wrong?

Why was the PUNISHMENT for Adam and Eve, for BEING tricked, to have to give birth in pain, and for man to have to work for a living?



In retrospect, ALL mammals give birth in pain, labor, and, all creatures always had to "work for a living"....in that, survival is a constant struggle to not starve to death for most creatures on earth.

It SOUNDS more like another primitive attempt to tie something ancient people would know is true (pain and work), and say "Its because you didn't listen to god".

Same with the missing rib.

Same with the rainbow.

And so forth.


So, anyway - If satan was responsible for tricking humans into eating the apple, and god knew he was going to try to trick them...wasn't that god's plan for them?

You can say they had free will, but, he MADE THEM NOT KNOW RIGHT FROM WRONG....and then held them responsible FOR knowing right from wrong...without the ability.

If he didn't MAKE THEM STUPID, they would not BE stupid, and would not have to be punished for it.

Why did all that involve knowledge as a bad thing?

WHY would god, WANT man to be stupid?

He obviously DID, or getting knowledge would have been a birthright, not a forbidden fruit.

The OTHER fruits were OK, just not anything that makes you NOT stupid.


It SOUNDS LIKE he wants his subjects to be stupid, and, to fear knowledge, and, encourage a culture of faith, and not a culture that challenges questionable ideas or concepts, or tries to figure out how things work.


Why MAKE them that way, and PUNISH them for being TRICKED into getting knowledge?

Last edited by Teej; 11-02-2015 at 06:47 PM.
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