LPF Laser Pointer Company Database








Welcome to Laser Pointer Forums! If you are looking for a laser you may want to check out the database of laser pointer companies. The link will open in a new window for your convenience.

Green Laser Pointers Blue Laser Pointers Red Laser Pointers
Yellow Laser Pointers Violet Laser Pointers Orange Laser Pointers
Laser Pointers by Power - 1 Watt+ Laser Pointers by Power - 500mW+ Laser Pointers by Power - 250mW+
Laser Pointer Database High Power Laser Pointers Laser Pointer Diodes


























Go Back   Laser Pointer Forums - Discuss Laser Pointers > Off-Topic > Other

LPF Database of Laser Pointer Companies






Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-27-2015, 10:11 PM #6193
Hap's Avatar
Hap Hap is online now
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Central California Coast
Posts: 6,403
Rep Power: 3175
Hap has a reputation beyond reputeHap has a reputation beyond reputeHap has a reputation beyond reputeHap has a reputation beyond reputeHap has a reputation beyond reputeHap has a reputation beyond reputeHap has a reputation beyond reputeHap has a reputation beyond reputeHap has a reputation beyond reputeHap has a reputation beyond reputeHap has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via Skype™ to Hap
Hap Hap is online now
Super Moderator
Hap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Central California Coast
Posts: 6,403
Rep Power: 3175
Hap has a reputation beyond reputeHap has a reputation beyond reputeHap has a reputation beyond reputeHap has a reputation beyond reputeHap has a reputation beyond reputeHap has a reputation beyond reputeHap has a reputation beyond reputeHap has a reputation beyond reputeHap has a reputation beyond reputeHap has a reputation beyond reputeHap has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via Skype™ to Hap
Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by VisibleGreen View Post
Do you deny ever talking bad about Greenlander/Lehap?
I wouldn't be surprised if he's talked behind my back....

-Alex


__________________
650nm: laserbtb LP650-5 (peak 15mW)
635nm: Laserglow Libra (peak 4mW)
593.5nm: Laserglow Rigel-2 (peak 1mW)
532nm: Laserglow Anser (peak 4mW)
532nm: LaserGlow Aries-20 (Waiting for arrival!)
473nm: Laserglow Aquarius-2 (peak 2mW)
450nm: laserbtb LP450-1 (peak 3mW)
405nm: laserbtb LP405-5 (peak 10mW)

"Open your eyes, look within. Are you satisfied with the life you're living?" -Bob Marley
“The universe is a pretty big place. If it's just us, seems like an awful waste of space.” -Carl Sagan
You are important: Pale Blue Dot
Hap is online now   Reply With Quote








Old 10-27-2015, 10:12 PM #6194
TheDukeAnumber1's Avatar
Class 3R Laser
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Illinois
Posts: 2,036
Rep Power: 516
TheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond repute
TheDukeAnumber1 TheDukeAnumber1 is offline
Class 3R Laser
TheDukeAnumber1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Illinois
Posts: 2,036
Rep Power: 516
TheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: LPF's Religion

I can relate. My wife is due in early Feb. with our first and even on our earliest ultrasound it's clear to me that the little fetus is living human being, dependent on the mother just as they are after they are born.

I believe 38 of US states have "fetal homicide laws", they declare a baby is a human being with rights. They protect babies from maniacs beating you're pregnant wife and killing your unborn child. I'd like to think most would agree that's homicide. Yet most of those states say it's ok if the mother wants to end the baby's life. 5ex inherently has a calculated risk for pregnancy, IMO if you're not prepared to take that risk and raise a child you shouldn't be having 5ex, we should focus more on self control than justifying ending human lives for getting our rocks off.

I typically don't like analogies but regarding abortion I prefer this one. - If you're driving down the road and see something that looks like a person but you aren't sure it's a person, it could just be an interestingly articulated pile of clothes. Are you in the right to run the potential person over because you are late and it would be inconvenient to stop. It's clear that it's morally unconscionable to run the potential person over unless you're 100% certain it isn't a person. Likewise some people say an unborn baby is a person, and some disagree, but unless those who disagree could somehow be 100% sure that an unborn baby isn't a person to whom the right to life is naturally due, how can they argue the default position of "It's ok to end it's life"
__________________
“Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence."
http://laserpointerforums.com/donations.htm
“It is impossible that any ill should happen to the man who is beloved of the Lord; the most crushing calamities can only shorten his journey and hasten him to his reward. Ill to him is no ill, but only good in a mysterious form. Losses enrich him, sickness is his medicine, reproach is his honour, death is his gain. No evil in the strict sense of the word can happen to him, for everything is overruled for good. Happy is he who is in such a case. He is secure where others are in peril, he lives where others die.”—Spurgeon
Avatar by Yohsi Yaki

Last edited by TheDukeAnumber1; 10-27-2015 at 10:13 PM. Reason: spelling n such
TheDukeAnumber1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2015, 10:13 PM #6195
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,065
Rep Power: 0
VisibleGreen has a reputation beyond reputeVisibleGreen has a reputation beyond reputeVisibleGreen has a reputation beyond reputeVisibleGreen has a reputation beyond reputeVisibleGreen has a reputation beyond reputeVisibleGreen has a reputation beyond reputeVisibleGreen has a reputation beyond reputeVisibleGreen has a reputation beyond reputeVisibleGreen has a reputation beyond reputeVisibleGreen has a reputation beyond reputeVisibleGreen has a reputation beyond repute
VisibleGreen VisibleGreen is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,065
Rep Power: 0
VisibleGreen has a reputation beyond reputeVisibleGreen has a reputation beyond reputeVisibleGreen has a reputation beyond reputeVisibleGreen has a reputation beyond reputeVisibleGreen has a reputation beyond reputeVisibleGreen has a reputation beyond reputeVisibleGreen has a reputation beyond reputeVisibleGreen has a reputation beyond reputeVisibleGreen has a reputation beyond reputeVisibleGreen has a reputation beyond reputeVisibleGreen has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeHap View Post
I wouldn't be surprised if he's talked behind my back....

-Alex
I know and I'm sorry you had to find that out. But remember you got friends here that will never judge you
VisibleGreen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2015, 10:35 PM #6196
Hap's Avatar
Hap Hap is online now
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Central California Coast
Posts: 6,403
Rep Power: 3175
Hap has a reputation beyond reputeHap has a reputation beyond reputeHap has a reputation beyond reputeHap has a reputation beyond reputeHap has a reputation beyond reputeHap has a reputation beyond reputeHap has a reputation beyond reputeHap has a reputation beyond reputeHap has a reputation beyond reputeHap has a reputation beyond reputeHap has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via Skype™ to Hap
Hap Hap is online now
Super Moderator
Hap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Central California Coast
Posts: 6,403
Rep Power: 3175
Hap has a reputation beyond reputeHap has a reputation beyond reputeHap has a reputation beyond reputeHap has a reputation beyond reputeHap has a reputation beyond reputeHap has a reputation beyond reputeHap has a reputation beyond reputeHap has a reputation beyond reputeHap has a reputation beyond reputeHap has a reputation beyond reputeHap has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via Skype™ to Hap
Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by VisibleGreen View Post
I know and I'm sorry you had to find that out. But remember you got friends here that will never judge you
Indeed! Much appreciated to everyone who supports me and others

-Alex
__________________
650nm: laserbtb LP650-5 (peak 15mW)
635nm: Laserglow Libra (peak 4mW)
593.5nm: Laserglow Rigel-2 (peak 1mW)
532nm: Laserglow Anser (peak 4mW)
532nm: LaserGlow Aries-20 (Waiting for arrival!)
473nm: Laserglow Aquarius-2 (peak 2mW)
450nm: laserbtb LP450-1 (peak 3mW)
405nm: laserbtb LP405-5 (peak 10mW)

"Open your eyes, look within. Are you satisfied with the life you're living?" -Bob Marley
“The universe is a pretty big place. If it's just us, seems like an awful waste of space.” -Carl Sagan
You are important: Pale Blue Dot
Hap is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2015, 10:46 PM #6197
Cyparagon's Avatar
Class 4 Laser
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 8,954
Rep Power: 1973
Cyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond repute
Cyparagon Cyparagon is online now
Class 4 Laser
Cyparagon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 8,954
Rep Power: 1973
Cyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pi R Squared View Post
No, it's your choice, as long as you're alive, your body parts are yours, including your blood.
And the uterus is different why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pi R Squared View Post
I think once the child is conceived it's probably life at that point.
There are several birth control methods that prevent a zygote from attaching to the uterine lining. Is birth control murder?

Many zygotes do not attach to the uterine lining anyway, and are washed out with the menstrual cycle. Who is the murderer in this case? How are the funeral processions arranged? Or if they don't get a funeral, why not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pi R Squared View Post
Quote:
Another similar classical dilemma:
There is an unstoppable train speeding along the tracks with 5 people tied to the tracks. You are in a position where you can throw a switch that will divert the train to a second track, with one person tied to the tracks there. Do you throw the switch?
Yes.

Quote:
Contrast with:
You are an experienced surgeon. There are 5 people dying of organ failure, and one healthy individual. You can choose to kill the healthy individual, distribute his organs to the 5 dying people and save them. Do you?
Not unless the healthy individual agrees to this.
So the question to "would you kill one person to save five" is yes AND no at the same time?
__________________
A problem well stated is a problem half solved.
Cyparagon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2015, 10:58 PM #6198
Class 3R Laser
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: NJ
Posts: 1,296
Rep Power: 173
Teej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond repute
Teej Teej is offline
Class 3R Laser
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: NJ
Posts: 1,296
Rep Power: 173
Teej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond repute
Talking Re: LPF's Religion

Pi figures he doesn't have to ask permission of the guy on the tracks, just at the hospital.

That's why its an interesting dilemma.

For the tracks, he goes with the broken cookie jar/number of victims.

For the hospital, he goes with the intent.

He is on the cusp of the moral issues, and, did not see it was the same question, just two scenarios...and went one way for one, and the other way for the other.


That can happen when a person answers honestly, off the cuff.

If he'd thought about it longer, he'd have probably also asked permission of the one guy on the tracks too.



------------------------

Totally separate issue:

If someone talks about someone else, behind their back, so that person doesn't KNOW any body bad mouthed them...their feelings can't be hurt by it....because they don't know.


If someone is depressed, and I heard some deek head say something bad about them...I would NOT tell the depressed person, as, it wouldn't fix anything, and, would just make them feel worse, for nothing.

If someone thinks someone else is foolish, weak, a deek head, or whatever, it doesn't mean its true, or make it so....its just one human having an opinion about another one.

Until the thought police intervene...we can ALL think whatever we want to, and, if we choose to, share those thoughts.


Someone who TELLS the depressed person that the bad mouthing is happening is just hurting that person. Why? To feel like the teller is a better person, ironically?

I'll hurt you by telling you some other guy doesn't like you....so you'll see me as on your side? WTF.


If the bad mouthing is foretelling something, say, to jump the guy and beat him up, rob him, publicly humiliate him...sure, then stepping in is in order....AGAINST THE BAD GUY.

IE: Don't "tell on" the bad guy, making the depressed person feel bad....tell the bad guy you are standing between him and the depressed guy.


You want to protect your friend, not just try to make yourself look good at their expense.


I PM with Cyp once in a while, and he never bad mouthed anyone to me unless you count commiserating at some of the boneheaded anti-logic, and it was about the lack of logic, not a personal attack, ever.

He's a logical guy...and, he points out mistakes.

That is not evil.

Some people are really sensitive to being told they are wrong though, or that they made a mistake. They can't take it, and consider anyone who corrects them/points out a mistake to be attacking them/a deek head.


Pointing out mistakes ≠ wanting someone to die.

That's an enormous jump...and not warranted or evidenced by review of posts.


LOTS of people will say things along the lines of someone was an idiot for thinking they didn't need a heat sink, or whatever...there's a context. Its not the same as wanting them to kill themselves.


So, lets back off, again, from the petty politics and personality conflicts...and try to discuss content relative to the thread.


Last edited by Teej; 10-27-2015 at 11:16 PM.
Teej is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2015, 11:35 PM #6199
TheDukeAnumber1's Avatar
Class 3R Laser
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Illinois
Posts: 2,036
Rep Power: 516
TheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond repute
TheDukeAnumber1 TheDukeAnumber1 is offline
Class 3R Laser
TheDukeAnumber1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Illinois
Posts: 2,036
Rep Power: 516
TheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyparagon View Post
So the question to "would you kill one person to save five" is yes AND no at the same time?
This is why I typically don't like analogies, they often get misapplied. These two are not equal.


Quote:
There is an unstoppable train speeding along the tracks with 5 people tied to the tracks. You are in a position where you can throw a switch that will divert the train to a second track, with one person tied to the tracks there. Do you throw the switch?
If you had to choose between one dying or five dying which would you choose?

Quote:
You are an experienced surgeon. There are 5 people dying of organ failure, and one healthy individual. You can choose to kill the healthy individual, distribute his organs to the 5 dying people and save them. Do you?
If you had to murder one to save five would you?


These analogies are not equal.
__________________
“Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence."
http://laserpointerforums.com/donations.htm
“It is impossible that any ill should happen to the man who is beloved of the Lord; the most crushing calamities can only shorten his journey and hasten him to his reward. Ill to him is no ill, but only good in a mysterious form. Losses enrich him, sickness is his medicine, reproach is his honour, death is his gain. No evil in the strict sense of the word can happen to him, for everything is overruled for good. Happy is he who is in such a case. He is secure where others are in peril, he lives where others die.”—Spurgeon
Avatar by Yohsi Yaki

Last edited by TheDukeAnumber1; 10-27-2015 at 11:36 PM.
TheDukeAnumber1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2015, 11:44 PM #6200
Cyparagon's Avatar
Class 4 Laser
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 8,954
Rep Power: 1973
Cyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond repute
Cyparagon Cyparagon is online now
Class 4 Laser
Cyparagon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 8,954
Rep Power: 1973
Cyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
These analogies are not equal.
You would be responsible for switching the train's trajectory towards that individual.

Trains don't kill people, people kill people. YOU are responsible for the man's death.
__________________
A problem well stated is a problem half solved.
Cyparagon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2015, 12:01 AM #6201
TheDukeAnumber1's Avatar
Class 3R Laser
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Illinois
Posts: 2,036
Rep Power: 516
TheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond repute
TheDukeAnumber1 TheDukeAnumber1 is offline
Class 3R Laser
TheDukeAnumber1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Illinois
Posts: 2,036
Rep Power: 516
TheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyparagon View Post
You would be responsible for switching the train's trajectory towards that individual.

Trains don't kill people, people kill people. YOU are responsible for the man's death.
I completely disagree, but under your view...If the switcher is responsible then the person that tied the people to the tracks isn't responsible? By choosing the lesser evil you assume responsibility for his death?

By that logic choosing not to act is still a choice and makes you responsible for the death of the five. This isn't sound reasoning.
__________________
“Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence."
http://laserpointerforums.com/donations.htm
“It is impossible that any ill should happen to the man who is beloved of the Lord; the most crushing calamities can only shorten his journey and hasten him to his reward. Ill to him is no ill, but only good in a mysterious form. Losses enrich him, sickness is his medicine, reproach is his honour, death is his gain. No evil in the strict sense of the word can happen to him, for everything is overruled for good. Happy is he who is in such a case. He is secure where others are in peril, he lives where others die.”—Spurgeon
Avatar by Yohsi Yaki

Last edited by TheDukeAnumber1; 10-28-2015 at 12:07 AM.
TheDukeAnumber1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2015, 12:11 AM #6202
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,065
Rep Power: 0
VisibleGreen has a reputation beyond reputeVisibleGreen has a reputation beyond reputeVisibleGreen has a reputation beyond reputeVisibleGreen has a reputation beyond reputeVisibleGreen has a reputation beyond reputeVisibleGreen has a reputation beyond reputeVisibleGreen has a reputation beyond reputeVisibleGreen has a reputation beyond reputeVisibleGreen has a reputation beyond reputeVisibleGreen has a reputation beyond reputeVisibleGreen has a reputation beyond repute
VisibleGreen VisibleGreen is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,065
Rep Power: 0
VisibleGreen has a reputation beyond reputeVisibleGreen has a reputation beyond reputeVisibleGreen has a reputation beyond reputeVisibleGreen has a reputation beyond reputeVisibleGreen has a reputation beyond reputeVisibleGreen has a reputation beyond reputeVisibleGreen has a reputation beyond reputeVisibleGreen has a reputation beyond reputeVisibleGreen has a reputation beyond reputeVisibleGreen has a reputation beyond reputeVisibleGreen has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
I completely disagree, but under your view...If the switcher is responsible then the person that tied the people to the tracks isn't responsible? By choosing the lesser evil you assume responsibility for his death?

By that logic choosing not to act is still a choice and makes you responsible for the death of the five. This isn't sound reasoning.
Well said
VisibleGreen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2015, 01:28 AM #6203
Cyparagon's Avatar
Class 4 Laser
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 8,954
Rep Power: 1973
Cyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond repute
Cyparagon Cyparagon is online now
Class 4 Laser
Cyparagon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 8,954
Rep Power: 1973
Cyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
the person that tied the people to the tracks isn't responsible?
Who said it was a person? Maybe they got tangled in a roll of twine. That isn't the point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
By choosing the lesser evil you assume responsibility for his death?
Good question. Do you? Is murdering the one healthy man not also the lesser of two evils? Maybe, maybe not. It's a question to think about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
choosing not to act is still a choice and makes you responsible for the death of the five.
moving to another track constitutes a participation

I think the reason you have problems with analogies is you look for all the differences, where others look for the similarities. Analogies are meant to highlight the similarities.
__________________
A problem well stated is a problem half solved.
Cyparagon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2015, 02:05 AM #6204
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,065
Rep Power: 0
VisibleGreen has a reputation beyond reputeVisibleGreen has a reputation beyond reputeVisibleGreen has a reputation beyond reputeVisibleGreen has a reputation beyond reputeVisibleGreen has a reputation beyond reputeVisibleGreen has a reputation beyond reputeVisibleGreen has a reputation beyond reputeVisibleGreen has a reputation beyond reputeVisibleGreen has a reputation beyond reputeVisibleGreen has a reputation beyond reputeVisibleGreen has a reputation beyond repute
VisibleGreen VisibleGreen is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,065
Rep Power: 0
VisibleGreen has a reputation beyond reputeVisibleGreen has a reputation beyond reputeVisibleGreen has a reputation beyond reputeVisibleGreen has a reputation beyond reputeVisibleGreen has a reputation beyond reputeVisibleGreen has a reputation beyond reputeVisibleGreen has a reputation beyond reputeVisibleGreen has a reputation beyond reputeVisibleGreen has a reputation beyond reputeVisibleGreen has a reputation beyond reputeVisibleGreen has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyparagon View Post
Who said it was a person? Maybe they got tangled in a roll of twine. That isn't the point.



Good question. Do you? Is murdering the one healthy man not also the lesser of two evils? Maybe, maybe not. It's a question to think about.



moving to another track constitutes a participation

I think the reason you have problems with analogies is you look for all the differences, where others look for the similarities. Analogies are meant to highlight the similarities.
More like you lose your point with analogies, which you often do
VisibleGreen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2015, 02:16 AM #6205
TheDukeAnumber1's Avatar
Class 3R Laser
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Illinois
Posts: 2,036
Rep Power: 516
TheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond repute
TheDukeAnumber1 TheDukeAnumber1 is offline
Class 3R Laser
TheDukeAnumber1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Illinois
Posts: 2,036
Rep Power: 516
TheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyparagon View Post
Who said it was a person? Maybe they got tangled in a roll of twine. That isn't the point.
The point is there is more to the analogy. No sane person would assign blame for the death/deaths without first looking at why they were tied to the tracks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyparagon View Post
Good question. Do you?
You just asserted you had the answer to this question remember...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyparagon View Post
You would be responsible for switching the train's trajectory towards that individual.

Trains don't kill people, people kill people. YOU are responsible for the man's death.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyparagon View Post
I think the reason you have problems with analogies is you look for all the differences, where others look for the similarities. Analogies are meant to highlight the similarities.
My problems is they are abused and used to make broken conclusions.
__________________
“Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence."
http://laserpointerforums.com/donations.htm
“It is impossible that any ill should happen to the man who is beloved of the Lord; the most crushing calamities can only shorten his journey and hasten him to his reward. Ill to him is no ill, but only good in a mysterious form. Losses enrich him, sickness is his medicine, reproach is his honour, death is his gain. No evil in the strict sense of the word can happen to him, for everything is overruled for good. Happy is he who is in such a case. He is secure where others are in peril, he lives where others die.”—Spurgeon
Avatar by Yohsi Yaki

Last edited by TheDukeAnumber1; 10-28-2015 at 02:19 AM.
TheDukeAnumber1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2015, 02:18 AM #6206
Class 3R Laser
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: NJ
Posts: 1,296
Rep Power: 173
Teej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond repute
Teej Teej is offline
Class 3R Laser
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: NJ
Posts: 1,296
Rep Power: 173
Teej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond repute
Talking Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
This is why I typically don't like analogies, they often get misapplied. These two are not equal.




If you had to choose between one dying or five dying which would you choose?



If you had to murder one to save five would you?


These analogies are not equal.

As ANALOGIES they are actually equal.

In other words, they are all saying would you sacrifice one man to save 5.

They just use different scenarios to do so.



IE: One live guy, who, unless YOU make him die, lives...Plus 5 guys who are going to die, UNLESS you kill the one guy.


That's the same analogy.

Teej is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2015, 02:23 AM #6207
TheDukeAnumber1's Avatar
Class 3R Laser
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Illinois
Posts: 2,036
Rep Power: 516
TheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond repute
TheDukeAnumber1 TheDukeAnumber1 is offline
Class 3R Laser
TheDukeAnumber1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Illinois
Posts: 2,036
Rep Power: 516
TheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teej View Post
As ANALOGIES they are actually equal.

In other words, they are all saying would you sacrifice one man to save 5.

They just use different scenarios to do so.



IE: One live guy, who, unless YOU make him die, lives...Plus 5 guys who are going to die, UNLESS you kill the one guy.


That's the same analogy.

The end result is the same yes, either one or five lives, but getting from A to B in these analogies is very different.
__________________
“Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence."
http://laserpointerforums.com/donations.htm
“It is impossible that any ill should happen to the man who is beloved of the Lord; the most crushing calamities can only shorten his journey and hasten him to his reward. Ill to him is no ill, but only good in a mysterious form. Losses enrich him, sickness is his medicine, reproach is his honour, death is his gain. No evil in the strict sense of the word can happen to him, for everything is overruled for good. Happy is he who is in such a case. He is secure where others are in peril, he lives where others die.”—Spurgeon
Avatar by Yohsi Yaki
TheDukeAnumber1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2015, 02:35 AM #6208
Class 3R Laser
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: NJ
Posts: 1,296
Rep Power: 173
Teej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond repute
Teej Teej is offline
Class 3R Laser
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: NJ
Posts: 1,296
Rep Power: 173
Teej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond repute
Talking Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
The point is there is more to the analogy. No sane person would assign blame for the death/deaths without first looking at why they were tied to the tracks.



You just asserted you had the answer to this question remember...






My problems is they are abused and used to make broken conclusions.


I think this is like where someone is pointing to the rabbit, because they want the dog to see it, and the dog just keeps looking at the finger that's pointing, and not what its pointing AT.

An analogy is not saying the same thing twice "So they are equal".

The concept is to compare two DIFFERENT scenarios, that share a common theme.


The theme is essentially, is it OK to kill one guy to save five.


That's the analogous part.


Its the same theme.



The point is not to add details that are not listed and hypothesize over what adding those details would do to the decision.


The point is to take what's presented, assume that the scenario is illustrating a theme or concept, and, solve it using what's given.


So, sure, in real life, we would not even know how to switch the tracks or do the operations...and of course we'd wonder how any of them got tied to the tracks, all of which are not relevant to the POINT...they are added details, added by the reader, not part of the scenario.

The story is simply "would you kill one to save five".

That's it.

One has you actively switching rails, one has you operating.

Both have you sacrificing the few for the many.


The QUESTION is: would you?


Most people are OK with the track, and not with the operation.

The track just "feels" cleaner, and the operation seems more like murder.


They are, in fact, the same scenario, if you understand what is presented....and don't add to it and then ponder the new scenario, etc.



If you just don't get analogies, and think "they are misapplied", OK, not everyone has the same abilities, and, some just won't be able to get their usage.

If you see an analogy, just ignore it, and wait for the concepts to be presented in a different format that you can work with...or, at least try to not add details that are not there, and then ponder the new scenario's changes, etc....just use only what's there, as is...and try to find the common thread, not the differences (If you're good on differences, bad on common aspects).




The same can be applied to some types of logic riddles or puzzles...don't add details on speculation/wonder what differences the added details might make.

If you find yourself wanting to, its your first clue that you are missing the point of the analogy/story.

That means stop, and re-read it to see what you're missing.



On another note, a point you made about some people misapplying them is true.

That's like hammers, in that they are good at driving in nails, but some people hit other's in the head with them, or their own thumbs, etc.

Any tool can be misused, on purpose, or, accidentally.


If they are to explore human nature...as in the context of the operation/track stories, they are not misapplied, as that's their "Nail".


A misapplication of an analogy would have to come from interpretation of the answer...as an analogy is just an analogy.

So, if the second story were more along the lines of:

If you saw six children falling over the rail at a cliff, and could only grab one, would you grab the one and let the others fall?

That's NOT the same, as its not killing one to save the others, its saving who you could.

If it were saying 5 were falling, but, you could save 5 of them if you threw a sixth kid to his death, then it would be analogous.


So, w/o adding details such as why someone would be tied to tracks, etc...what would you do?


Last edited by Teej; 10-28-2015 at 03:02 AM.
Teej is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply





Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


LinkBacks (?)
LinkBack to this Thread: http://laserpointerforums.com/f57/lpf-s-religion-34223.html
Posted By For Type Date
DARPA Continues Human Experiments to Create Military Super Soldiers - Top US World News | Susanne Posel Daily Headlines and Research This thread Refback 08-05-2014 02:49 AM
Def belongs in my future home | Caylin's | Pinterest This thread Refback 05-19-2014 06:18 PM
Man slays son; claims God told him to | Say What? This thread Refback 06-17-2012 05:35 AM
LPF's Religion - Page 92 - Laser Pointer Forums - Discuss Lasers & Laser Pointers This thread Refback 02-29-2012 05:46 AM










Loading








Top 50 Laser Pointer Companies - Green Lasers Top 50 Laser Pointer Companies - Blue Lasers Top 50 Laser Pointer Companies - Red Lasers
Top 50 Laser Pointer Companies - Yellow Lasers Top 50 Laser Pointer Companies - Purple Lasers Top 50 Laser Pointer Companies - Orange Lasers
Top Laser Pointers by Power - 1 Watt+ Top Laser Pointers by Power - 500mW+ Top Laser Pointers by Power - 250mW+
Laser Pointer Database High Power Laser Pointers Laser Pointer Diodes




Privacy Policy | Advertising Disclaimer | Terms of Use


 


All times are GMT. The time now is 07:45 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO
Privacy Policy | Advertising Disclaimer | Terms of Use
Copyright (C) 2016 Laser Pointer Forums, LLC