Old 10-24-2015, 12:29 AM #6145
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by VisibleGreen View Post
I'm not agitated at all. That would be a misinterpretation on your part
Perhaps. Or, perhaps you are just trying to bait people into an all out brawl so the thread gets shut down because you are too stubborn to just walk away. Since, you ran out of anything useful to say weeks ago, your just trying to get the teacher to cancel recess because you lost all your marbles at lunch time. Seems pretty obvious to me. Except, this is a good debate/discussion whatever you choose to call it, and everyone is here by their own god given freewill, so I doubt anyone's dumb enough to take the bait.
So instead you can continue to unravel before the world in real time until you either finally get bored and realize all you have to do is stop clicking and entering this topic, or actually get yourself into trouble. Which btw ,I also think is your back up plan/goal, to get reprimanded so you can claim Christian persecution and selective prosecution of the rules. Perhaps you think you found a win win. Either the thread get's shut down, or you get to play the victim and show the world how atheists get special treatment here at LPF by the godless moderators.

I dunno, only thing I can think of that would explain a grown man to be saying the things your saying.

Onto the discussion for everyone else...


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Old 10-24-2015, 01:53 AM #6146
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

Jesus Christ
Jesus Christ is the eternal second person of the Trinity who was united forever with a true human nature by a miraculous conception and virgin birth. He lived a life of perfect obedience to the Father and voluntarily atoned for the sins of all by dying on the cross as their substitute, thus satisfying divine justice and accomplishing salvation for all who trust in Him alone. He rose from the dead in the same body, though glorified, in which He lived and died. He ascended into heaven and sat down at the right hand of the Father, where He, the only Mediator between God and man, continually makes intercession for His own. He shall come again to earth, personally and visibly, to consummate history and the eternal plan of God.

The above is one Christian group's core belief. (A core belief)

It says that Jesus died on the cross.


Did they actually use crosses then? I've seen sources that indicate that they might have...but some groups seem to think they did not, and even that using the cross is a pagan symbol...and is wrong to use in worship.


So, some Christians believe the cross is holy, and do not question this symbol of Christianity, and, some believe its a sin, and not holy, or even related to Jesus's death.

Its a fairly huge cornerstone of Christianity.

Should it be?
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Old 10-24-2015, 04:05 AM #6147
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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[Jesus] continually makes intercession for His own...
...by helping people find their car keys and appearing on toast.
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Old 10-24-2015, 12:16 PM #6148
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Cyparagon View Post
...by helping people find their car keys and appearing on toast.
I'm trying to get to the crux of the issue though....the cross.

Whether god is thanked for a home run but not for a strikeout, or appears as a mold stain, etc, is a different series of issues.

Center the crosshairs...and lets see who feels the cross is appropriate, or, inappropriate.


Its an issue that could use some sound reasoning and research.

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Old 10-24-2015, 01:15 PM #6149
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Teej View Post
and even that using the cross is a pagan symbol...and is wrong to use in worship.

So, some Christians believe the cross is holy, and do not question this symbol of Christianity, and, some believe its a sin, and not holy, or even related to Jesus's death.

Its a fairly huge cornerstone of Christianity.

Should it be?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teej View Post
I'm trying to get to the crux of the issue though....the cross.

Whether god is thanked for a home run but not for a strikeout, or appears as a mold stain, etc, is a different series of issues.

Center the cross hairs...and lets see who feels the cross is appropriate.
The cross is not a PAGAN symbol, I am not aware of any PAGANS that use it as a symbol of their faith.

The only Christians I can think of that don't like crosses are LDS (Mormons), there is however some disagreement about weather Jesus should be shown on the cross or just the cross by itself. In any case it is the single most important Christian symbol, more so than the fish or dove or anything else. It serves as a reminder to us, we wear one or display one in memory of Jesus Christ, the same reason Christians take communion.

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Old 10-24-2015, 01:24 PM #6150
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Alan,

I think your opinion is the most prevalent. Most Christians I know, and all family members, feel the same way you do.

There are some who say that's wrong though, and, they say they have research to support their view.

I'm not sure how compelling it is though.

I do know however that the cross IS an ancient pagan symbol, and was for many centuries.








Do you think there's any chance at all that Jesus was not crucified on a cross?

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Old 10-24-2015, 02:01 PM #6151
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Alan,

I think your opinion is the most prevalent. Most Christians I know, and all family members, feel the same way you do.

There are some who say that's wrong though, and, they say they have research to support their view.

I'm not sure how compelling it is though.

I do know however that the cross IS an ancient pagan symbol, and was for many centuries.

Do you think there's any chance at all that Jesus was not crucified on a cross?
I doubt very much there is any chance that he wasn't crucified on a cross, if so then it probably wouldn't have become a Christian symbol, however the Romans likely had to work with what they had available so probably not everyone who was crucified, was crucified on a regular cross, it could have sometimes been on one that is T shaped, or just a pole, or maybe even a tree, I don't know.

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Old 10-24-2015, 02:13 PM #6152
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Pi R Squared View Post
I doubt very much there is any chance that he wasn't crucified on a cross, if so then it probably wouldn't have become a Christian symbol, however the Romans likely had to work with what they had available so probably not everyone who was crucified, was crucified on a regular cross, it could have sometimes been on one that is T shaped, or just a pole, or maybe even a tree, I don't know.

Alan
The greek version does use the word for tree IIRC.

Language was very imprecise back then though...so, sometimes we have a tendency to over interpret what was said.
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Old 10-24-2015, 04:04 PM #6153
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Even if it was originally a pagan symbol, that doesn't mean only pagans can use it, or that it can't be re-purposed. The "卐" symbol wasn't originally used by Nazis; it was a symbol meaning "success" in Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism. Appealing to the originality of a symbol doesn't matter when its meaning is culturally dictated. That is to say that even though the swastika is technically a message of success, you cannot get it tattooed on yourself without certain social repercussions.
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Old 10-24-2015, 04:04 PM #6154
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Let's change to another subject, one of the vets here who is also quite young I believe is planning to kill himself, maybe as soon as today. He doesn't participate in this thread so he is probably not reading this. Hopefully I am not the only one who knows this but I don't know how many were online here off and on overnight and witnessed the alarming changes to his signature and avatar 3 times this morning. Does anyone have any ideas on anything we could do?

Alan

Edit: He just posted again and looks like he could be better but after what I saw this morning I am not so sure.
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Old 10-24-2015, 04:23 PM #6155
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Let's change to another subject, one of the vets here who is also quite young I believe is planning to kill himself, maybe as soon as today. He doesn't participate in this thread so he is probably not reading this. Hopefully I am not the only one who knows this but I don't know how many were online here off and on overnight and witnessed the alarming changes to his signature and avatar 3 times this morning. Does anyone have any ideas on anything we could do?

Alan

Edit: He just posted again and looks like he could be better but after what I saw this morning I am not so sure.
It might be easier if we knew who?
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Old 10-24-2015, 04:27 PM #6156
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Alan please PM with his info so I can reach out to him!!!! No fellow vet left behind
EDIT: do you mean vet of "lpf" or vet as in "AMERICAS BRAVEST" vet?
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Old 10-24-2015, 05:11 PM #6157
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Does anyone have any ideas on anything we could do?
Warn him that looking for sympathy from strangers online is possibly the worst way to deal with depression. For every comment saying "you have so much to live for!", you'll get 3 more that say "do it, faggot!".

Guide him to more appropriate resources.
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Old 10-24-2015, 05:16 PM #6158
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Warn him that looking for sympathy from strangers online is possibly the worst way to deal with depression. For every comment saying "you have so much to live for!", you'll get 3 more that say "do it, faggot!".

Guide him to more appropriate resources.
so true.. I reached out to him so hopefully he gets back to me before anyone else does!
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Old 10-26-2015, 01:21 AM #6159
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Ok we can now resume our discussion. I did a little research and yes it's true, the cross has been a PAGAN symbol long before Christianity, often variations on the cross and not just the Christian cross. It was regarded as a magical symbol. It brought good luck and diverted evil.

This of course is also a common belief among Christians. Those of you who watch horror movies or read the books know that in places with demonic activity that a cross or crucifix hanging on the wall will get turned upside down or fall off the wall, or that it protects you from vampires. This wasn't something just made up for fiction, I think some of the early writers of horror fiction were Christians and then this idea became a standard thing in the fiction, but it does go back even long before Christianity.

If there are any PAGANS reading this you are invited to join the discussion, we wouldn't mind someone besides the Christians and atheists and maybe one who isn't sure, the more the merrier.

Teej you may now begin your next lengthy essay with a LOL, but it may not be a ROFL or a LMAO or I will be appropriately offended.

Alan
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Old 10-26-2015, 04:42 AM #6160
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyparagon View Post
Warn him that looking for sympathy from strangers online is possibly the worst way to deal with depression. For every comment saying "you have so much to live for!", you'll get 3 more that say "do it, faggot!".

Guide him to more appropriate resources.
You're exactly one of those who would say "do it, faggot!".
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