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Old 10-10-2015, 08:47 AM #5969
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by RB astro View Post
B

You're blaming the wrong person for all the horrors of this world.
God won't stop all these horrors in the world to show you how fallen man is under the influence of Sin.
Sin that Lucifer introduced into this perfect world and corrupted it.
Yes Lucifer knew God's power and did indeed choose to defy Him.
Lucifer is the epitome of Pride, that was his downfall, and all who epitomise Lucifer have that same defiant pride, hence their demise is immanent.
Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.
Proverbs 16:18
So since you would rather dodge the questions I ask and proselytize instead I going to hold you to the fire and keep asking till you answer.

Willingly? So when a Mafia boss send his henchmen to extort money from local business owners by telling them "If you don't pay us for protection, something really bad is going to happen to you", is that business owner paying them willingly?
How is your despot of a god not exactly like a mafia boss?

If your god really wanted his flawed creations to come to him willingly, he wouldn't have the threats of eternal torture in play.


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Old 10-10-2015, 08:52 AM #5970
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by olympus mons View Post
So since you would rather dodge the questions I ask and proselytize instead I going to hold you to the fire and keep asking till you answer.

Willingly? So when a Mafia boss send his henchmen to extort money from local business owners by telling them "If you don't pay us for protection, something really bad is going to happen to you", is that business owner paying them willingly?
How is your despot of a god not exactly like a mafia boss?

If your god really wanted his flawed creations to come to him willingly, he wouldn't have the threats of eternal torture in play.
He offers those that choose to follow Him, eternal life in Heaven!
A place where Sin and death will no longer have a stronghold on us.
A lot better than any Mafiozo has ever offered anyone, including to their own henchmen....

Please don't think I am dodging your question, I'm doing my best to answer you, this is all I'm capable of answering your questions, I am not as eloquent as I'd like to be.
As you can see.... I'm a very simple man.

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─────────────────────────────────☀
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him
should not perish but have everlasting life.
For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world,

but that the world through Him might be saved.
“He who believes in Him is not condemned;
but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”
(John 3:16-21)
─────────────────────────────────☀
If you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from
the dead, you will be saved.
For it is with your heart that you believe unto righteousness
and it is with your mouth that you confess
your faith and
are saved.
(Romans 10:9-10)
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Old 10-10-2015, 09:00 AM #5971
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by RB astro View Post
He offers those that choose to follow Him, eternal life in Heaven!
A place where Sin and death will no longer have a stronghold on us.
A lot better than any Mafiozo has ever offered anyone, including to their own henchmen....

Please don't think I am dodging your question, I'm doing my best to answer you, this is all I'm capable of answering your questions, I am not as eloquent as I'd like to be.
As you can see.... I'm a very simple man.

Yes and those that choose to not believe or follow him get tortured for eternity. So how exactly is that a loving creator that wished us to come to him willingly. That's extortion at best. If I said to you, give me your car or I will kill you, then I claim in a court room that it was a fair deal since he had a choice to not give me his car. You really think that would hold up as a rational argument?
Wouldn't a loving God who actually wants us to willingly serve him say, I want this for you to come to me but if you chose not okay, ?
But hers the kicker, were supposed to follow and serve him or get tortured yet he offers no definitive proof he is even real. You really don't see how insane this is?
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Last edited by olympus mons; 10-10-2015 at 09:03 AM.
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Old 10-10-2015, 09:16 AM #5972
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by olympus mons View Post
That's extortion at best. If I said to you, give me your car or I will kill you, then I claim in a court room that it was a fair deal since he had a choice to not give me his car. You really think that would hold up as a rational argument?
Wouldn't a loving God who actually wants us to willingly serve him say, I want this for you to come to me but if you chose not okay, ?
But hers the kicker, were supposed to follow and serve him or get tortured yet he offers no definitive proof he is even real. You really don't see how insane this is?
Interesting analogy.... the court room !
Say a man rapes and kills your mother .... because he has free will, let's say.
And the Judge says why did you do it?
"Because I Have Free Will !", he says.
Then I condemn you to life in prison, for the term of your natural life even, the judge says.
"But Judge, I've also done good things in my life, I've donated to LPF and to the cancer appeal and I've helped clean up after hurricane Katrina !".
Oh, the Judge says, then that's good, I'll let you off.

Sorry mate, My God is a true and righteous God !
None of this flimsy so called Justice that this world offers us.
Sin must be punished for God to uphold The Law.
But God gave us His Son to die in our place so that whosoever shall believe in Him will have eternal life with God.
__________________
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─────────────────────────────────☀
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him
should not perish but have everlasting life.
For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world,

but that the world through Him might be saved.
“He who believes in Him is not condemned;
but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”
(John 3:16-21)
─────────────────────────────────☀
If you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from
the dead, you will be saved.
For it is with your heart that you believe unto righteousness
and it is with your mouth that you confess
your faith and
are saved.
(Romans 10:9-10)
─────────────────────────────────☀

Last edited by RB astro; 10-10-2015 at 09:16 AM.
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Old 10-10-2015, 02:25 PM #5973
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

Hmmm, it's more like the "offender" says:



Your honor, this man offered to buy my car, for a very high price, and said he'd give me an IOU for it, and, about 70 years from now, he was going to give me the money.

I thought the money offered was very fair, generous even, but, the terms of payment were not acceptable, and, there was no proof or collateral that I would be paid.

In short, he offered a lot of money, but under terms that were completely unreasonable.

So, your honor, I didn't accept his terms, and refused to sell him my car.


Then, he says that's my choice, but, his associate also buys cars, and, has a different offer.

His associate's offer is that if I don't take the first deal, the one I just refused, I AUTOMATICALLY have to sell my car to the associate, and the terms are that I get no money, I give him the car now anyway, and then, in about 70 years, he will torture me forever.


He ALSO tells me there is no middle ground, and that I am free to choose either deal, but it's one or the other.


So, I'm thinking, that sounds retarded, and, only the first dealer is talking, and telling me ABOUT the second guy.

I ask where's the second guy...and why is there only the first guy TELLING ME that there IS a second guy....


....and, conveniently, why the second guy's deal is so bad no one would, of their own free will, take it?

AND, why, since ONLY the first guy stands to gain by getting a free car for 70 years, and me THINKING that there's a second guy, sounds like a con job.


So, yes your honor, he said I HAD to choose HIS deal, or the second guy's deal was automatic...and I told him to go to hell.


I then found out that there were laws saying I could not tell the dealer to go to hell, as it was disrespectful...and, I would be tortured for saying so.


And that's why I'm here...to be judged.





Judge:

You are guilty of not taking the deal, and, our just and compassionate legal system dictates that you could have chosen the deal, but, did not, and so, you are sentenced to an eternity of torture.


But your honor, I was a nice guy, I gave to charity, walked blind woman across the street, never stole anything or hurt anyone, I have been a model citizen, and pose no threat to humanity! I am a force for good in the world!



Judge: Its like gravity...it's there whether you believe in it or not, except that there's evidence of gravity, and, the same thing happens if you believe in it or not, and, it's not a crime to not believe in gravity.

If you'd not believed in gravity, you'd never have been called into this court.

You chose to not buy from our esteemed dealer though, and NOT BELIEVING THE DEAL WAS GOOD is punishable by eternal torture.



Wait, your honor, you are saying that I can choose whatever deal I want, as long as it's the one where I don't get paid until after I die...and that NOT choosing that deal is a crime, and THAT'S what I am being judged and found guilty for?

It's not like not believing in gravity is like RAPING or MURDERING someone...Rape and Murder are obviously bad, and I would NEVER do that!

You are essentially saying that the COURT deems rape and murder and NOT TAKING THE DEAL to all be crimes, when only the rape and murder should be, not just not taking a deal!



In short, that's insane Sir. I can't believe a just legal system would essentially say:

1) You have free will, and can freely choose all that you do.

2) If you live a good and honest life, helping others, not hurting anyone....UNLESS you sell your car to that dealer, THAT outweighs all else, and your life is deemed deserving of eternal torture.




Doesn't the above make no SENSE, Sir?


My Kia Soul is a decent car, and I would keep it, except the dealer came to me, and demanded I sell it to him, or, his associate would torture me forever...don't you see I'm being shaken down?


The selling of the car to the dealer is not helping mankind, only THE DEALER. The NOT selling the car to the dealer is also not hurting mankind, and ONLY hurts THE DEALER.




Judge: No, I don't see it. Its ordained that this is the way it is, and, you are the guilty party, and, there are no mitigating circumstances. You are guilty of not selling the dealer your Soul, when given the free choice to do so.

GUILTY!


Next....




Holy Crap!

Your Honor!

You are saying that this court considers rape and murder to be forgivable, but not taking a dealer's offer is NOT?!?!


Judge:

Exactly. You had a choice, and, you chose wrong, and, that is the ONLY UNFORGIVABLE CRIME FOR WHICH THERE ARE NO MITIGATING CIRCUMSTANCES!

ALL other crimes are forgivable, as this is a just and compassionate legal system.


Bailiff, gag that guy, he's agitating the other defendants.



Next....

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Old 10-10-2015, 04:08 PM #5974
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by RB astro View Post
By definition Hell is not a place to desire:
God will then be forced to send me to heaven as punishment if I see hell as preferable to a heaven full of people who were too dumb to think for themselves.

Really, I don't believe in either the hell or heaven you find described in religions at all, at least, not as a place God sends us for punishment we can't leave by our own choice, but I do believe we can have states of mind which are hell, or heaven, and that in the afterlife we will join with those of like mind. The end result could indeed be similar to the hell religions teach in their dogmas, but being our natural state of mind, we might not know it, completely comfortable to be with our comrades. That last statement is more humor than what I really think, when I give a few more moments of thought it is obvious that a hellish state of mind due to hating or being hurt by someone too deeply is never a good place, even with company. Like trying to swim the river of life which is full of sharp sticks, those of your own as well as those of others, if swimming the same river together. If such a place exists in the after-life, I think it is just the natural order of things for birds of a feather to end up together, not a place created by God to punish us. Something as natural as what happens when you mix oil and water together, they will separate if left to their own. From what I've been able to understand, there are places like that where lost souls gather but all is not lost, help is offered to those asking for it.

There is a great movie on this concept by..., worth a watch: (to be edited later when I remember)

Edit:

Trailer here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAKXdNNLZXk

Movie: http://www.hulu.com/watch/364775
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Last edited by Alaskan; 10-10-2015 at 04:56 PM.
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Old 10-10-2015, 05:08 PM #5975
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

My main objection to life after death, in the ways typically portrayed, is that every one simply looks the same and walks around in white, etc...

And there's no evidence that happens, at all.

There is evidence that things die....and even evidence that things can appear dead, wood frogs in Alaska during the winter, for example, but, THEIR "after life" is merely thawing out and picking up where they left off, on the same planet, under the same pile of leaf litter, etc.

They were not reincarnated as a DIFFERENT wood frog, or as a moose...and did not go to a different "astral plane", or froggy heaven or hell.


So, when ACTUALLY dead (See Miracle Max references), you simply stay dead, or, you were not really dead. (Maybe mostly dead...)

We have legal definitions of "dead", such as heart beat and brain waves...but that's just a legal definition. Biology is more complicated, and, if the parts work, they work...and, the machinery can be turned back on.


WHO you are is part of your brain though. This is why a person with a trauma/disease to parts of the brain will act differently, and may act like someone else...because the brain is different, now, they are too.

If you, for example, cut off someone's head, they would be normally considered to be dead, but, it is theoretically possible to re-attach it, and they could live.

If their brain had enough oxygen, etc, to not be damaged, the new head arrangement would restore the person to his prior personality, etc.

If the brain WAS damaged, the person may be different.

Now, lets say you die, and you are cremated, or, embalmed, or an elephant crushed your skull, or your brain is otherwise rendered inoperable....that would be an even more extreme version.

YOU, as a personality with memories, experiences, love, etc, would simply no longer be present.


To think that you can think, or feel emotion, without a brain, is fantasy.


Now, its true that people who are terrified of not existing anymore are GREATLY comforted by the idea of living forever, especially if described as in a wonderful place.

The problem with the stories made up to comfort them, is they were written so long ago, that it was an accepted fact that there were places above the clouds, and under the earth, where dead people went.


In the earlier mythology, EVERY ONE went down to Hades, etc. It was NOT a place to be tortured...it was simply where you go when dead.


Later, because there was competition for converts...as early christian mythology mostly took older mythology, and put a spin on it....

...old pagan holidays were adopted as christian, and, hades, etc, (Where all the people USED TO GO) was labeled as bad, and, a NEW place, called heaven, was invented as where GOOD people went, as a reward.

Heaven was up above the clouds, so you could not see it.

The reward was ONLY for accepting THEIR religion....so the deal offered was "Accept OUR religion, and, THIS is your reward!"

The simple ancient folks fell for the scam, and did a simple evaluation, and determined that eternal life and heaven sounded way better than dark dank hades...and signed up.

So, WANTING to never die is quite a sales incentive, and even with overwhelming evidence that they'd been scammed...the followers would cling to their beliefs as if believing made it true.


Its like in Peter Pan where if you clap, Tinker Bell lives...as long as you believe.


If something exists, whether you believe in it or not...it is real.

If something ONLY exists as an idea/if you believe it exists....its not real.


Sorry Tink.


Sorry Virginia....there is no Santa Claus.

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Old 10-10-2015, 05:10 PM #5976
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
My main objection to life after death, in the ways typically portrayed, is that every one simply looks the same and walks around in white, etc...

And there's no evidence that happens, at all.
There is evidence, you just need to open your eyes long enough and look in the right direction to see it, but you qualified your statement with particulars which I don't believe exist either, I doubt anyone looks the same or walks around in white, that seems to be something right out of church thinking to me. If you are referring to a scene out of that movie I linked to above, it's just a movie. I have some thoughts about what our forms are in the after-life I could share, but to be brief I don't think we look like that at all. I think I need to restate my position regarding the after-life, I think it exists because we as conscious beings are not alive and able to be self-conscious due to the neurons in our brain, I don't think they cause consciousness, but instead are acted upon by consciousness as a kind of co-processor to allow us a full interface into our animal bodies for the purpose of experiencing this kind of reality. I believe we have always been, we are eternal beings and for now I think the name of the game is not to remember the past. Why? No better way for a fully immersed adventure! Another way of putting it is we are spiritual beings having a human experience.
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Old 10-10-2015, 05:50 PM #5977
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Alaskan View Post
There is evidence, you just need to open your eyes long enough and look in the right direction to see it, but you qualified your statement with particulars which I don't believe exist either, I doubt anyone looks the same or walks around in white, that seems to be something right out of church thinking to me. If you are referring to a scene out of that movie I linked to above, it's just a movie. I have some thoughts about what our forms are in the after-life I could share, but to be brief I don't think we look like that at all. I think I need to restate my position regarding the after-life, I think it exists because we as conscious beings are not alive and able to be self-conscious due to the neurons in our brain, I don't think they cause consciousness, but instead are acted upon by consciousness as a kind of co-processor to allow us a full interface into our animal bodies for the purpose of experiencing this kind of reality. I believe we have always been, we are eternal beings and for now I think the name of the game is not to remember the past. Why? No better way for a fully immersed adventure! Another way of putting it is we are spiritual beings having a human experience.

That's the same argument the theists make, which you yourself reject.

IE: If you accept evidence that WE accept, you too will accept what we accept.


You reject THEIR evidence of heaven and hell, and they say that if you opened your eyes/heart/mind, etc, THEN you too would get it.


So you not accepting their beliefs is analogous to me not accepting yours.


You at least don't threaten those who disagree with you, and welcome honest discussion.

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Old 10-10-2015, 05:54 PM #5978
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

If that is how you see what I am saying, OK, be at peace with your wonderings but my main point is organized religion can lead you astray, don't follow them as the ultimate truth, that is as close to the truth as I can possibly give you but my best advice is to test everything, don't believe anyone, see for yourself.
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Sincerely investigate any of these three short quotes as new concepts and you've taken your first step into a larger world:

"I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness..." - Max Planck. "Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real" - Neils Bohr. "What we call physical things and events do not exist independently of subjective experience..." - Deepak Chopra.

Each of these three rabbit holes go deep, ending up in the same place.

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Old 10-10-2015, 06:05 PM #5979
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskan View Post
If that is how you see what I am saying, OK, be at peace with your wonderings but my main point is organized religion can lead you astray, don't follow them as the ultimate truth, that is as close to the truth as I can possibly give you but my best advice is to test everything, don't believe anyone, see for yourself.
I agree wholeheartedly.

When they organized religion, so it was a group of beliefs and not a la carte, etc...it forced people to add beliefs/leave off beliefs, so that they can "belong".



I see so many people conflicted by this: Birth control for example.


A guy feels that he is a "Good Catholic"...it's his identity, and, he feels that's the group he belongs in.

The problem is that he doesn't think PREVENTING pregnancy is killing, but his group DOES.

So, he thinks he's sinning because he already has 7 kids, can't afford to send them to Catholic School, barely affords to feed and clothe them...and, wants to avoid going into bankruptcy just to have marital relations.


Like most Catholics I know at least, he rationalizes that god will forgive him, even though the priest says god will not.

Apparently, most seem to believe that THEIR god is more understanding than his representatives here on earth say he is.


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Old 10-11-2015, 04:06 AM #5980
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teej View Post
Hmmm, it's more like the "offender" says:

Your honor, this man offered to buy my car, for a very high price, and said he'd give me an IOU for it, and, about 70 years from now, he was going to give me the money.
....
With all due respect Teej....... WHO, pray-tell, is "your honour" in this case???
You're saying that the Judge is also the defendant and you're going to plead your case as such?
OK ......

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teej View Post
My main objection to life after death, in the ways typically portrayed, is that every one simply looks the same and walks around in white, etc...
I agree Teej, this is a very simplistic, yea, childish way of portraying eternity.
The Bible says:
"But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him."
1 Corinthians 2:9


Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskan View Post
God will then be forced to send me to heaven as punishment if I see hell as preferable to a heaven full of people who were too dumb to think for themselves.
Uh huh.... yeah right, you're going to use reverse psychology on The God who made you. You think He doesn't know your every thought.
Don't you know your very breath depends on Him !
"In His hand is the life of every creature and the breath of every human being. - Job 12:10"
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For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him
should not perish but have everlasting life.
For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world,

but that the world through Him might be saved.
“He who believes in Him is not condemned;
but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”
(John 3:16-21)
─────────────────────────────────☀
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Old 10-11-2015, 03:02 PM #5981
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

LOL

You can't even tell who the characters are?

I suppose the approach is not simple enough?


"Your Honor" is a judge at the trial of the man accused of not taking the dealer's offer.

The judge is not pleading, the man accused is...hence his appeals to the judge...who is judging him.

There were other clues, perhaps too subtle?


-------------------------


Simpler "Bible Story" version for all of god's children:


A dealer approaches a man and offers to buy his Kia Soul (get the Soul part?).

The owner (The man being approached, not the dealer), says he wasn't thinking of selling it, he liked it.

The dealer said the terms were he takes the car, now, and, after the man dies, he gets the payment...but for many times the value of the car.

The man thinks the amount is more than generous, but would rather have some way of getting the cash BEFORE he's dead.

The dealer says the offer stands, and, that if the man DOESN'T take it, his associate, Mr. Diablo, AUTOMATICALLY makes an offer too, except the man HAS TO TAKE that offer.

THAT offer is to take the car now, and never pay for it, and, then, after the man dies, he'll be tortured forever.


That man doesn't think EITHER offer is reasonable.

Either way, they take his car, which he didn't even want to sell, and he has nothing to show for it.

The dealer says that its automatic...essentially, give me your car, NOW, and get paid after you're dead, or, my associate will take your car now, and then torture you forever.


The dealer then says, but, of course, it's your own choice...you will choose the option you want by your own free will.

The man doesn't think that's really "free will", it's more like a shake down...

...IE: Give me your car, or, we take it anyway...so no matter what, you have no car...and, then, the "choice" is to give the car and not get paid until dead...or, give the car and get tortured.


------------

Other points made and missed:

The example (Not my post, a theist post) of the "criminal" being guilty of not taking the deal was presented as equivalent to having raped and murdered someone.......AND that the guilt was NOT related to his earthly behaviour, but ONLY to his non-acceptance of Jesus.

IE: Rape and Murder/earthly crimes WERE forgivable, not accepting Jesus was punishable by an eternity of torture.


----------------------------


WHY would a loving and compassionate god make it more of a crime to NOT BELIEVE IN HIS SON, than to hurt others?

WHY this pathological jealousy about belief?


Is god like Tinker Bell, where he stops existing if we stop believing?

Is god like Virginia's Santa Claus?


WHY ELSE would an all powerful, all knowing being give a rat's A$$ as to if ANYONE believed, or not?

Why would ONE GOD, HAVE a son?

That's TWO GODS.

Why is he so concerned that you believe in his SON?


The Muslims believe in HIM (They just call him Allah, which means "God").

They just don't believe in his SON as another god (A SECOND GOD).


If you pray to the son...who are you praying TO?


Was he a man, who died for your sins? If he died, he could not have been GOD, or, god died.


And so forth.

It's a theological mess.


Quoting from the comic book that says stuff like:

1) Everything we say is true

2) Some stuff can't be true, but, its spiritually true...unless you believe it, then its true for real.

3) Knowledge is a bad thing...it's why man has to work for a living and woman give birth in pain...and why You were kicked out of the garden.

4) If anyone makes a fool of you because your beliefs are goofy, that's wonderful...I MADE your beliefs goofy on purpose.

5) Any one who has a good argument that you're wrong is evil, and can't be trusted. The more logical and persuasive the argument, the more evil it is.

6) God has a plan for everyone...and knows what every sperm and egg will do, forever, and planned it that way.

7) Everyone has free will....and whatever choices you make, and the consequences, that was god's will...I mean your own free will, that god planned for you...and you freely chose, according to god's plan...

8) God has a mortal enemy, sworn to defeating god....who also tortures anyone who DOESN'T BELIEVE IN GOD....because the evil creature is so stupid that it doesn't realize that IT is what god uses to recruit to GOD'S side...and, seemingly, has no vested interest in the effort to run a program who's SOLE PURPOSE is to defeat him....yet, spends ALL his time working to help god by making the NOT accepting of god = torture.

9) The devil is the enemy, and responsible for all evil, which was committed by people, acting of their own free will, according to god's plan.


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Old 10-11-2015, 03:40 PM #5982
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

New question:

Do you, if a Christian, believe that the Catholic Church is God's representative here on earth?
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Old 10-11-2015, 04:38 PM #5983
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teej View Post
New question:

Do you, if a Christian, believe that the Catholic Church is God's representative here on earth?
No, I don't.
In fact I left the Greek Orthodox Church, for the same reason, because of the hypocrisy I saw in it, the worship of Mary and the multitude of saints worship.
The Bible says there is one God and one mediator between God and man and that is Christ Jesus.
We are not to create and bow down to idols and/or worship others.
If only these other religions just stuck to the Word of God and not make up and add more to what the bible says, they'd see it too.
You must believe Jesus is the only Son of God, repent of your sins, ask Jesus into your life and you will be Born Again and only then can you follow and see the Word of God.

Now Teej I'm not ignoring your previous post, you must forgive me but it's 3.30am Monday morning and I've just finished work and am off to bed.
I will read it tomorrow and try and answer you truthfully and as best I can because I want to read it properly and try and answer you.

Andrew
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─────────────────────────────────☀
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him
should not perish but have everlasting life.
For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world,

but that the world through Him might be saved.
“He who believes in Him is not condemned;
but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”
(John 3:16-21)
─────────────────────────────────☀
If you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from
the dead, you will be saved.
For it is with your heart that you believe unto righteousness
and it is with your mouth that you confess
your faith and
are saved.
(Romans 10:9-10)
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Old 10-11-2015, 06:58 PM #5984
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

Sleep is very important.

If considered a beauty rest, I should probably be in an aesthetically induced coma for a while...





OK, I understand you about the church, and the monotheistic enlargement to include other immortal beings, such as Saints, etc.

That is a major sticking point for a lot of people.


Some even have a problem enlarging it to two immortals, god and his son for example.



Now, another issue might be that you DON'T consider the Catholic Church to be god's representative here on earth...as, without that, you have no authority for their ASSOCIATED claims for the validity of the entire New Testament.

IE: Every word about Jesus is from the Catholic Church, and, its their WORD that it's true.

If the Church is NOT god's representative here on earth, their claim that THAT is why THEY were "whispered" the word of god...TO tell it to everyone else....seems a bit suspect to say the least.


That is the church's claim to exist in fact.

If you deny that claim...you are denying the SOURCE of what they SAY happened.


After that, you are essentially saying that YOU have read what THEY SAID happened...and base your life on it...but don't believe them.


God chose the jews in bible #1, and then again in bible #2...and a few hundred years later....words appear that the church claims were FROM GOD.

Those words say god now selected the Catholic Church as his representative.

You believe the words, hence in Jesus as described, but reject the source as unreliable.


That is an interesting combination of choices, no?


Last edited by Teej; 10-11-2015 at 06:59 PM.
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